'21 Generation 7 Car news

Kiante said:
This is pretty smart.

Give the commentators some relevancy in terms of how the NextGen car is compared to the Gen 6. It adds just that much more to the broadcast as well for FOX and NBC.
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Jr has talked about that on his podcast and I’m glad it worked out for him.
 
Not real sure doing a test at Bowman Gray they will find out much. There isn't a track that is similar except the colliseum they are going to run next year. Could be like the dirt track test where having a driver who isn't going to race test it so nobody gets an advantage
 
Thinking out loud on Martinsville week.....So, I have wondered if the Next Gen car will forever change Martinsville....with bigger brakes and independent rear suspension will the complexity of driving there (and what makes Denny so special) be gone forever?
 
aunty dive said:
Sounds more like a PR exercise than a test.

That’s not a bad thing.
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PR exercises are good. Loving the TRD spots during these last few races promoting the Next Gen. I am sure the Chevy and Ford spots are coming soon.
 
Revman said:
Thinking out loud on Martinsville week.....So, I have wondered if the Next Gen car will forever change Martinsville....with bigger brakes and independent rear suspension will the complexity of driving there (and what makes Denny so special) be gone forever?
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Every new generation of car that has raced at Martinsville has introduced new challenges to the drivers. The Next Gen isn’t unique in this. The better drivers will find a way to perform the best.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Every new generation of car that has raced at Martinsville has introduced new challenges to the drivers. The Next Gen isn’t unique in this. The better drivers will find a way to perform the best.
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So, you would contend that the Next Gen won't be anything drastically different or special on road courses?
 
Revman said:
So, you would contend that the Next Gen won't be anything drastically different or special on road courses?
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As far as Martinsville, theoretically, the independent rear suspension should allow the the car to rotate better in the center and get the power down better coming off the corner. On the other hand, if the brake packages are as limited as I have been led to believe, then that will put a real premium on backing up the corner and will penalize drivers that like to drive it in deep. NASCAR missed a real opportunity to take some weight out of these cars, so they will still punish the brakes if you aren't real careful. If they truly are brake limited, look for the good road course drivers to dominate. One wonders if we might actually see down shifting to help slow the car at some point.
 
Revman said:
So, you would contend that the Next Gen won't be anything drastically different or special on road courses?
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What? I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion from my reply. The new car will offer new challenges at all tracks, and I pointed out Martinsville because you referenced it first. Regardless, the best drivers and teams will get the most speed out of the car as they adapt to the new handling.
 
Formerjackman said:
As far as Martinsville, theoretically, the independent rear suspension should allow the the car to rotate better in the center and get the power down better coming off the corner. On the other hand, if the brake packages are as limited as I have been led to believe, then that will put a real premium on backing up the corner and will penalize drivers that like to drive it in deep. NASCAR missed a real opportunity to take some weight out of these cars, so they will still punish the brakes if you aren't real careful. If they truly are brake limited, look for the good road course drivers to dominate. One wonders if we might actually see down shifting to help slow the car at some point.
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The brake package on the new cars will outperform the current stuff.

The rotors are larger.
 
aunty dive said:
The brake package on the new cars will outperform the current stuff.

The rotors are larger.
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Well, as I said, I was under the impression that there would be a very limited number of brake packages legal for use, and that none of them were as big as the current Martinsville package. If I am wrong about that, I stand corrected. The rotors may well be bigger, but how big are the calipers and pads?
 
Formerjackman said:
Well, as I said, I was under the impression that there would be a very limited number of brake packages legal for use, and that none of them were as big as the current Martinsville package. If I am wrong about that, I stand corrected. The rotors may well be bigger, but how big are the calipers and pads?
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6 piston front, 4 in the rear. Actual dimensions unavailable.

All enabled by larger wheel diameter.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Drivers who are driving it in deep at Martinsville are already being penalized by driving it in deep. The race isn't getting into the turn, it’s who can get power down the quickest and smoothest.

In like a lamb, out like a lion.
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That IS the right way to do it, but that doesn't mean everybody does it right. That's why as huge as Martinsville brakes are, some guys STILL have brake issues or melt tire beads. When you're trying to make a pass, it's AWFULLY tempting to stuff the car in there from time to time.
aunty dive said:
6 piston front, 4 in the rear. Actual dimensions unavailable.

All enabled by larger wheel diameter.
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Well, all I'm saying is that the biggest rotor in the world means little if the calipers aren't optimized to match it, and I was under the impression that NASCAR was truing to put the "brakes' on the ultra big ultra expensive brake packages.
 
As far as I know, there is one brake package.

Naturally, I could be wrong.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Drivers who are driving it in deep at Martinsville are already being penalized by driving it in deep. The race isn't getting into the turn, it’s who can get power down the quickest and smoothest.

In like a lamb, out like a lion.
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Graphic proof of the "penalties" of driving in deeper and harder than anyone else at Martinsville...

Martinsville 1.jpg
Martinsville 2.jpg
Martinsville 3.jpg
Martinsville 4.jpg
 
aunty dive said:
As far as I know, there is one brake package.

Naturally, I could be wrong.
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You may well be right, I just don't remember the details when that all was discussed. If it IS one brake package, I think it's a safe bet that it won't be optimized for Martinsville.
 
Larger diameter rotors 3" front and 2" in the rear along with the more efficient calipers adds over 33% more braking according to Larry Mac. If a driver can't manage that large of an improvement they have a problem and need to change their driving habits, because they are going to use less brake use to slow down.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Where has he talked about how diving the corners is the best way around Martinsville?
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Brad doesn't talk about driving Martinsville. He does it, and he's had a lot of success doing it. It's plain to everyone watching that he gets into the corners harder and deeper than most all the others. It's how he passes people, which is the point after all.

In the MotoGP race yesterday at Misano, almost every passing attempt was an out-braking at corner entry. Same as F1, until you introduce an aero anomaly like DRS into the equation. There's not much of a trade off between corner entry and corner exit. Time can be gained, or lost, on either or on both. Especially at Marrtinsville, where the apex is a long, long arc that follows the shape and radius of the inner curb, which physically separates corner entry from exit (unless you are diamond-ing the corner).
 
StandOnIt said:
Larger diameter rotors 3" front and 2" in the rear along with the more efficient calipers adds over 33% more braking according to Larry Mac. If a driver can't manage that large of an improvement they have a problem and need to change their driving habits, because they are going to use less brake use to slow down.
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33% more than WHICH package?
 
LewTheShoe said:
Brad doesn't talk about driving Martinsville. He does it, and he's had a lot of success doing it. It's plain to everyone watching that he gets into the corners harder and deeper than most all the others. It's how he passes people, which is the point after all.

In the MotoGP race yesterday at Misano, almost every passing attempt was an out-braking at corner entry. Same as F1, until you introduce an aero anomaly like DRS into the equation. There's not much of a trade off between corner entry and corner exit. Time can be gained, or lost, on either or on both. Especially at Marrtinsville, where the apex is a long, long arc that follows the shape and radius of the inner curb.
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So, if I beat you into the corner it's because I'm on the brakes harder and NOT because I'm using LESS brakes and rolling the car in? I believe the term is "backing-the-corner-up".
 
KTMLew01 said:
That is actually painful to listen to. "Play"? No. Just more mechanical connections which increase deflection. I hate dumbed-down terms. When she said everything was the same with the front-end my eyes rolled out of my head. Should have asked a question instead.
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Lower your expectations.

The intended audience is not limited to randos posting from the shed roof.
 
Formerjackman said:
Because there is one hell of a lot difference between being 33% better than a Michigan brake package and 33% better than a Martinsville package.
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I'm pretty sure everyone is aware of that.

Obviously, the current Martinsville / road course bake package generates more braking force than the smaller stuff used elsewhere. A semantics argument is not required.
 
To expand on the rotor size discussion, on dirtbikes for years 260mm was the standard front rotor size. Somebody came up with 280mm kit. Only problem with 280 is better chance of bending it hitting ruts or rocks.

The 280 would put you on your lid several times until you got used to it. Allowed much less aggressive pads. HUGE difference! No caliper change. It worked. Same pushrod too.
 
If they are only going to have one brake package, where does it fall in line with the ones being used now? If a plate racing package is a 2, and Michigan package is a 4 and a Watkins Glen package is a 6 and Martinsville is an 8, where does this one fit in?
 
KTMLew01 said:
To expand on the rotor size discussion, on dirtbikes for years 260mm was the standard front rotor size. Somebody came up with 280mm kit. Only problem with 280 is better chance of bending it hitting ruts or rocks.

The 280 would put you on your lid several times until you got used to it. Allowed much less aggressive pads. HUGE difference! No caliper change. It worked. Same pushrod too.
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That's well and fine, but keep in mind that a Cup car is by a pretty wide margin the heaviest racing vehicle in common use, and probably the least braked as a percentage of braking force VS vehicle weight and speed. That alone makes any gains in braking smaller than on most vehicles. Bigger rotors should help, but I don't see a huge difference without a much bigger pad to go along with it.
 
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