'21 Generation 7 Car news

Charlie Spencer said:
Sounds more like a personal opinion to me.
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It was explained to me nearly forty years ago, so it's not just MY opinion, and there is science behind it. I suppose if you really LIKE your race cars to sound like a swarm of bumblebees, I guess there is no accounting for taste. There hasn't been a Novi on a race track since 1966, yet people STILL rave about the sound they made. They won't be talking about the sound those tuner cars make 50 years from now.
 
Formerjackman said:
It was explained to me nearly forty years ago, so it's not just MY opinion, and there is science behind it. I suppose if you really LIKE your race cars to sound like a swarm of bumblebees, I guess there is no accounting for taste. There hasn't been a Novi on a race track since 1966, yet people STILL rave about the sound they made. They won't be talking about the sound those tuner cars make 50 years from now.
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Eh, decent fart cans for those four bangers 50 years from now might bring a price on Ebay for those tuners that haven't been crushed into toasters
 
Formerjackman said:
It was explained to me nearly forty years ago, so it's not just MY opinion, and there is science behind it. I suppose if you really LIKE your race cars to sound like a swarm of bumblebees, I guess there is no accounting for taste. There hasn't been a Novi on a race track since 1966, yet people STILL rave about the sound they made. They won't be talking about the sound those tuner cars make 50 years from now.
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I agree they sound different. It's your assertion that it's a fact V8s sound better that I'm questioning. What are the objective standards for one sound being better than another?

As to my preference, I've stated several times that I don't care how they sound. I'd actually prefer it if the engines made no sound at all, but as long as the racing isn't affected then I don't much care.
 
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Take a non fan to a race today with screaming V8s and they’ll be a fan after the first lap. The sound of NASCAR has been their promotional material for decades and its simply apart of the experience.

Diminish or take it away and the sport kills the biggest reason people attend races.
 
sloggie said:
The V-8 is gone. NASCAR is desperate to attract new manufacturers and they can't do that if the engines are not relevant to modern cars.

Also more highly speculative and widely optimistic article here.

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/a30351017/next-gen-what-we-know-about-nascars-new-car/
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Honda has to be a lock if they go V6, they're the only confirmed manufacturer we know of NASCAR having talks with recently and that they brought up V6 it must be a sticking point for them. They are also the only manufacturer in IMSA to run some form of V6, the most common engine type is still a V8 or turbo V8 so it's not like OEMs have given up on showcasing that engine configuration in their race programs anymore.

There's a lot of stuff in here that I can't imagine will go over terribly well with the fan base at large - air jacks, clamp-on refueling, P2P. Some good for sure, namely composite bodies, but there will be a delicate balance between appeasing OEMs and reducing costs while trying to retain and gain fans too.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Honda has to be a lock if they go V6, they're the only confirmed manufacturer we know of NASCAR having talks with recently and that they brought up V6 it must be a sticking point for them. They are also the only manufacturer in IMSA to run some form of V6, the most common engine type is still a V8 or turbo V8 so it's not like OEMs have given up on showcasing that engine configuration in their race programs anymore.

There's a lot of stuff in here that I can't imagine will go over terribly well with the fan base at large - air jacks, clamp-on refueling, P2P. Some good for sure, namely composite bodies, but there will be a delicate balance between appeasing OEMs and reducing costs while trying to retain and gain fans too.
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Well Honda has made a killing in having small, powerful engines. It’s what they’re known for so I understand the trepidation towards racing a V8.

With that being said, a small block V8 is probably best for what NASCAR is. It’s a high speed, on the throttle for at least 400-500 laps/miles with limited breaks. That’s quite violent on an engine, especially a turbocharged one
 
The biggest worry for me isn't the engine it's the pit stops. I really don't want them do dumb those down. Stock cars don't have air jacks and single lug wheels and keeping things hard is what makes the race off pit road interesting. How quickly we forget years like 2015 where in many dull races pit stops were the only way to move up. The only thing they should take form IMSA here is the LED display in the rear window that shows the car's position and counts down the pit stop time. That info would be very useful when seeing races live.
 
Acs said:
The biggest worry for me isn't the engine it's the pit stops. I really don't want them do dumb those down. Stock cars don't have air jacks and single lug wheels and keeping things hard is what makes the race off pit road interesting. How quickly we forget years like 2015 where in many dull races pit stops were the only way to move up. The only thing they should take form IMSA here is the LED display in the rear window that shows the car's position and counts down the pit stop time. That info would be very useful when seeing races live.
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Well I thought the article was just throwing stuff against the wall to see if it would stick. The single lug wheel isn't going to lessen the number of crew it takes to change the tire unless they want one guy to run around the car with the gun and the other guy to run back and forth carrying the tire like a couple of cluster monkeys
 
StandOnIt said:
Well I thought the article was just throwing stuff against the wall to see if it would stick. The single lug wheel isn't going to lessen the number of crew it takes to change the tire unless they want one guy to run around the car with the gun and the other guy to run back and forth carrying the tire like a couple of cluster monkeys
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It's not the number of pit crewmen that's the issue, it's their skill level and athleticism that would go away. Currently the pit crew (especially the tire changers) are highly coordinated athletes doing their job as fast as possible. That obviously costs good money for the teams, but it's worth it because currently changing 4 tires is slower than refueling (in manufacturing it would be the limiting factor). If nascar changes to both a refueling hose, potentially with a slower flow-rate, air jacks and a single wheel lug, refueling will become the slowest part of the stop. Thus we'll get 4 guys sitting around while everyone waits for the fuel to go in, and the pit crew doesn't need to be highly paid or trained since they will have little to no impact on the race. Changing tires needs to be hard. Other racing series have figured this out, that's why F1 banned refueling and the WEC makes the tire changers wait until after refueling is done.
 
Acs said:
It's not the number of pit crewmen that's the issue, it's their skill level and athleticism that would go away. Currently the pit crew (especially the tire changers) are highly coordinated athletes doing their job as fast as possible. That obviously costs good money for the teams, but it's worth it because currently changing 4 tires is slower than refueling (in manufacturing it would be the limiting factor). If nascar changes to both a refueling hose, potentially with a slower flow-rate, air jacks and a single wheel lug, refueling will become the slowest part of the stop. Thus we'll get 4 guys sitting around while everyone waits for the fuel to go in, and the pit crew doesn't need to be highly paid or trained since they will have little to no impact on the race. Changing tires needs to be hard. Other racing series have figured this out, that's why F1 banned refueling and the WEC makes the tire changers wait until after refueling is done.
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Don't think so, why would they do that? Another idea that has been kicked around is not having timed pit stops in the lower series, you go out the same position you came in. In that case a team could use volunteers from the stands
 
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As long as the engine sounds good and maintains that distinctive loud NASCAR roar sound, I don't care what engine is run
 
kyle busch 18 said:
There is absolutely no reason to switch from a v8 engine. zero. nada. zilch. ktlew is there any reason why u think a v6 or 4 cylinder is better? you say changes must be made. I couldnt disagree more. none of us have wall phones because cell phones are much better so tell me how switching to a motor with less cylinders is better? just bc your prius doesnt have a v8 doesnt mean nascar should get rid of them for a more expensive but inferior motor.
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$$$ is the reason. NASCAR needs more manufacturers in the sport, and they won't come if the engine formula isn't relevant to their product lineup.
 
sloggie said:
$$$ is the reason. NASCAR needs more manufacturers in the sport, and they won't come if the engine formula isn't relevant to their product lineup.
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Well, my theory would be be let them bring whatever engine they have and make it work instead of making Chevy and Ford run an engine they may NOT want to run. A little side story here. As some of you may know, Doug Fehan is the project manager for the factory Corvette Racing team, and sits on rules committees with both IMSA and the ACO, the international sports car governing body. Fehan was talking about how Porsche, Ferrari BMW etc. are always complaining in these meetings about the perceived advantage that the Corvette's pushrod V8 engine has in competition and wanting more restrictions put on it. Fehan's answer was that that is the engine that is in the street car, so that is was they need to run, and if they think the pushrod engine is such an advantage, they were free to put them in THEIR street cars. The answer? crickets................
 
sloggie said:
$$$ is the reason. NASCAR needs more manufacturers in the sport, and they won't come if the engine formula isn't relevant to their product lineup.
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Dodge makes a V8, proudly advertised in every one of their performance cars.

Nissan/Infiniti makes a V8, and all of their race cars (GT, Supercars) run a V8.

Audi/VW, same thing.

Hyundai/Kia, same thing.

So is our current engine formula not relevant to any of those brands? Would a different engine be the big draw to get them all to sign up? The ONLY potential manufacturer that doesn't have a V8 is Honda. One POTENTIAL manufacturer. And we're supposed to change the landscape for them?

IF that's the only thing that is stopping them from joining (it isn't) and IF our current three manufacturers are OK with developing a new platform to appease one new competitor (they aren't) and IF it could be done with cost control in mind (it can't) then sure, let's change everything. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe we can get everyone on the same page and develop a non-V8 engine that makes everyone happy (including two new manufacturers) and maybe it can be done without costs skyrocketing. I'll believe it when I see it.

Besides, right now we have more manufacturers than we did in the boom period of the 90's. There were a half dozen Pontiacs in the field but it was basically GM vs Ford. We don't NEED more manufacturers, we just need to keep our current three happy and look to add one or two more who are willing to join without us changing everything for them.
 
2 Sweet said:
Dodge makes a V8, proudly advertised in every one of their performance cars.

Nissan/Infiniti makes a V8, and all of their race cars (GT, Supercars) run a V8.

Audi/VW, same thing.

Hyundai/Kia, same thing.

So is our current engine formula not relevant to any of those brands? Would a different engine be the big draw to get them all to sign up? The ONLY potential manufacturer that doesn't have a V8 is Honda. One POTENTIAL manufacturer. And we're supposed to change the landscape for them?

IF that's the only thing that is stopping them from joining (it isn't) and IF our current three manufacturers are OK with developing a new platform to appease one new competitor (they aren't) and IF it could be done with cost control in mind (it can't) then sure, let's change everything. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe we can get everyone on the same page and develop a non-V8 engine that makes everyone happy (including two new manufacturers) and maybe it can be done without costs skyrocketing. I'll believe it when I see it.

Besides, right now we have more manufacturers than we did in the boom period of the 90's. There were a half dozen Pontiacs in the field but it was basically GM vs Ford. We don't NEED more manufacturers, we just need to keep our current three happy and look to add one or two more who are willing to join without us changing everything for them.
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Dodge pisses me off. How am I supposed to take your Charger and Challenger seriously when you don’t even race
 
sloggie said:
$$$ is the reason. NASCAR needs more manufacturers in the sport, and they won't come if the engine formula isn't relevant to their product lineup.
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That sounds like a desperate money grab at the detriment to the fanbase and product. At this point, if you're NASCAR you have to be concerned with fan retention, removing a staple aspect like the V8 is an awfully big risk to take.

I don't see them going away from it, if anything they need to find a way to restore horsepower, the V8 gives them the best flexibility to do that.
 
Turtle84 said:
That sounds like a desperate money grab at the detriment to the fanbase and product. At this point, if you're NASCAR you have to be concerned with fan retention, removing a staple aspect like the V8 is an awfully big risk to take.

I don't see them going away from it, if anything they need to find a way to restore horsepower, the V8 gives them the best flexibility to do that.
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Of course it's a desperate money grab. NASCAR needs the OEMs badly, and most of the money they have is going into electrification. All it takes for NASCAR to be in big trouble is for one of the remaining three to leave the sport, so the leadership of NASCAR want to reduce that risk by getting more OEMs involved. No manufacturer is going to spend their dollars moving into the series unless they can somehow make it relevant to where there are investing, which is electric cars and other green bull****.
 
I think more manufacturers could help the sport, BUT, every time a sanction body starts screwing with the rules to cater to somebody new, usually all you do is piss off and drive away the ones you already have. It's back to the benevolent dictator thing. "We would LOVE to have join our series. We will work with you in any reasonable way to facilitate that, but understand that theses are our rules and specifications, and it either works for you or it doesn't. Have a nice day!"
 
sloggie said:
Of course it's a desperate money grab. NASCAR needs the OEMs badly, and most of the money they have is going into electrification. All it takes for NASCAR to be in big trouble is for one of the remaining three to leave the sport, so the leadership of NASCAR want to reduce that risk by getting more OEMs involved. No manufacturer is going to spend their dollars moving into the series unless they can somehow make it relevant to where there are investing, which is electric cars and other green bull****.
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boy howdy, you should have been around when Dodge pulled out... twice.
 
sloggie said:
Of course it's a desperate money grab. NASCAR needs the OEMs badly, and most of the money they have is going into electrification. All it takes for NASCAR to be in big trouble is for one of the remaining three to leave the sport, so the leadership of NASCAR want to reduce that risk by getting more OEMs involved. No manufacturer is going to spend their dollars moving into the series unless they can somehow make it relevant to where there are investing, which is electric cars and other green bull****.
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That's pretty much 80% or more of the auto industry.

Its impossible to avoid at this point. The major North American motorsports divisions in IndyCar and NASCAR with its partners have their backs against the wall. Its the reason why they are scrambling with the changes now.
 
Yeah it is a deathbedders party with any change they make. There has to be doom and gloom involved. I don't know what got into the Toyotas. They are coming out with an engine for sprint car racing..they MUST be desperate. The WoO started their season off last night the earliest they ever have..more desperation, and to think that the Tulsa Shootout had a record number of entries, over twelve hundred and fifty cars that HAD to be desperation. Oh woah is me, racing is dying, Somebody needs to tell Penske how crazy he is for buying Indianapolis Motor Speedway
 
StandOnIt said:
Yeah it is a deathbedders party with any change they make. There has to be doom and gloom involved. I don't know what got into the Toyotas. They are coming out with an engine for sprint car racing..they MUST be desperate. The WoO started their season off last night the earliest they ever have..more desperation, and to think that the Tulsa Shootout had a record number of entries, over twelve hundred and fifty cars that HAD to be desperation. Oh woah is me, racing is dying
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:idunno:

The only thing I know is just changes are happening at this time. Some will be for it, some against it.

I'm still here, regardless of what changes occur.
 
KTMLew01 said:
That used to be part of racing. Now everyone is running the same parts. It's become a spec series to a point.
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not really, all three OEM's have different engine blocks that they start off with. Remember Childers saying they had to completely rework the front suspension to fit the Ford block in the cars moving from Chevy. Personally if Nascar doesn't have an engine rule I guarantee somebody would build a all new design ringer engine for ovals, and road courses. (all the while crying about costs)
 
I’m sure Hamlin or Jones could handle the assignment.
 
StandOnIt said:
hopefully they use either Truex or KDB. Hamlin is too much of a moon unit and Jones hasn't been around long enough.
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It’s not like Cowboy Hat would have been my first choice. I’ll take Jones or Hamlin over Dillon every time. Maybe NASCAR decided if he could keep it on the paved surfaces, anyone not named Stenhouse could keep from wrecking it.
 
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