'21 Generation 7 Car news

2 Sweet said:
I don't understand why they refuse to even consider adding more power. "Lower HP is more attractive for new manufacturers" is a bunch of nonsense. Would it kill NASCAR to add some speed, take away some spoiler, and bring soft tires to the track? What do they think will happen? Do they think the gap between the haves and have nots will be too big?

We're now dealing with spec parts and less room to get "creative" with the rules. That alone is enough to level the playing field and have tighter competition, top to bottom, than ever before. We don't need to neuter the cars and run WOT everywhere to keep things interesting.
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New manufacturers aren't going to bother with an engine that will be obsolete within a few years anyway
 
DewChaser988 said:
New manufacturers aren't going to bother with an engine that will be obsolete within a few years anyway
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Yeah, that's a good point.

We were told the low-HP package would attract new manufacturers, because reasons. Well where are they? Where's Honda and Kia or Hyundai or VW or Nissan or whatever people were saying? Dodge probably won't join until 2024 at the earliest, and it'll be some electric hybrid model because they are canning the Charger and Challenger. Same deal with Chevrolet and whatever electric performance sedan they push as the Camaro's replacement.

I'm 100% certain NASCAR is aware of this, and they likely have a plan in place for what the sport will look like in 2025 when all these brands are trying to move away from internal combustion engines in their production vehicles, but everything we heard about 550hp being attractive for the manufacturers was a bunch of BS.
 
StandOnIt said:
I think they are going to go with 670 everywhere myself
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What they should have done in the first place was 670 everywhere except for short tracks and road courses. Make those 750. Heck, I wouldn’t have a problem if short tracks were 900 hp.
 
2 Sweet said:
That's what NASCAR may think, but it's not reality. We only see true pack racing at Daytona and Talladega.

I can go watch go-karts at Magic Mountain and see WOT pack racing. At this level (NASCAR Cup Series) low HP does not equal close racing.
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But isn't Daytona and Talladega the 2 tracks that draws the most viewers?
 
2 Sweet said:
Yep. They are also the only two tracks on the schedule of that size and speed. Trying to make a 1.5 race like a superspeedway is a fool's errand.
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Daytona and Dega does draw a lot of it's fans due to the high speeds and the crashes.
 
2 Sweet said:
Pick any 1.5 race from Kansas or Vegas or Texas or whatever from the last couple years with the 550 package. Did that look like Daytona or Talladega to you?
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A whole lot closer than follow the leader single file. The stats don't lie, at the lowest point in both attendance and ratings was when Nascar was using the high horsepower single file racing that set records for no passing. It just ain't going to happen, your nostalgia memories don't match up to what really happened.
 
StandOnIt said:
A whole lot closer than follow the leader single file. The stats don't lie, at the lowest point in both attendance and ratings was when Nascar was using the high horsepower single file racing that set records for no passing. It just ain't going to happen, your nostalgia memories don't match up to what really happened.
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And neither do these passing stats. We've gone in this circle before. Cars that are extremely difficult to pass, and thus produce lots of side by side racing is going to show a lot of passes on paper. You may see 5 passes between two cars before the trailing car *clears* the leading car. To me, and to others, this skews the passing data.

What I, and other wants to see, I think, is lifting, and being able to pass cars based on handling, rather than pure runs and aero.

If that means follow the leader racing (which we got loads of this year), that's fine. If there's comers and goer's, fine.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
StandOnIt said:
A whole lot closer than follow the leader single file. The stats don't lie, at the lowest point in both attendance and ratings was when Nascar was using the high horsepower single file racing that set records for no passing. It just ain't going to happen, your nostalgia memories don't match up to what really happened.
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So this brand new Gen7 car with 750 HP, a smaller spoiler, and soft tires will automatically amount to single file racing with no passing? Why, because some random races from five years ago had poor ratings? There are way too many variables here, and artificial stats with no context means jack squat. What were the ratings in 1995 and how much HP were the cars making?

You're acting like this low HP, high DF package is the only way to generate passing. If that were the case, why is the new car so drastically different than the Gen6? Man, it's a wonder this sport made it this far running high horsepower all those decades :rolleyes:
 
2 Sweet said:
So this brand new Gen7 car with 750 HP, a smaller spoiler, and soft tires will automatically amount to single file racing with no passing? Why, because some random races from five years ago had poor ratings? There are way too many variables here, and artificial stats with no context means jack squat. What were the ratings in 1995 and how much HP were the cars making?

You're acting like this low HP, high DF package is the only way to generate passing. If that were the case, why is the new car so drastically different than the Gen6? Man, it's a wonder this sport made it this far running high horsepower all those decades :rolleyes:
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you believe what you want to believe, the figures don't lie and neither did the lower income in the principles pockets.
 
In my opinion nascar needs to get away from promoting the engines as links to the automakers. That would allow teams to come onboard and all they would have to do is lease engines as part of an engine program. These engines are so far gone from being similar to what’s available in standard road cars, I don’t understand why they are marketed as chev, ford, or Toyota motors, and not as hendrick, ECR, Yates and trd as examples. That would allow a new manufacturer to jump on board and join the series in a more cost effective manor.

I personally don’t think anyone cared that Red Bull was powered by a Honda, with Aston Martin on the rear wing, or the Aston Martin factory team leases engines from the merc team.
 
Bigpaulie1979 said:
In my opinion nascar needs to get away from promoting the engines as links to the automakers. That would allow teams to come onboard and all they would have to do is lease engines as part of an engine program. These engines are so far gone from being similar to what’s available in standard road cars, I don’t understand why they are marketed as chev, ford, or Toyota motors, and not as hendrick, ECR, Yates and trd as examples. That would allow a new manufacturer to jump on board and join the series in a more cost effective manor.

I personally don’t think anyone cared that Red Bull was powered by a Honda, with Aston Martin on the rear wing, or the Aston Martin factory team leases engines from the merc team.
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I think that is a great idea. They did that in the trucks, went to a common motor and the Yotas almost pulled out. There's the problem. I don't know about the other OEM's but Toyota is on record in not liking a spec motor. On the other hand there are race motors from independent builders out there and it has worked well in the trucks and I don't see why not it wouldn't work everywhere. That would be an alliance without all of the strings if they were able to buy an existing motor from an OEM or an outside vendor.
 
StandOnIt said:
I disagree, it's the threat of a wreck, the suspense when they start rooting for better position.(passing). Sometimes they don't make it (wreck)
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That's why you and I and most RF members watch. That's not why those folks who only watch Daytona and Talladega tune in. NASCAR and the networks don't run ads with cars getting loose and a driver making a brilliant recovery. They run the Big Ones because that's what draws in the casual viewers.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That's why you and I and most RF members watch. That's not why those folks who only watch Daytona and Talladega tune in. NASCAR and the networks don't run ads with cars getting loose and a driver making a brilliant recovery. They run the Big Ones because that's what draws in the casual viewers.
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Thrills and spills. Some things never change.
 
I wonder how the people who make the most important parts of the car are making out with their 2022 season plans?
 
So where are we?

Sweet said 750hp? Standonit mentioned 670? Bob Pockbutt said 670?

What are we actually looking at here?

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jaqua19 said:
So where are we?

Sweet said 750hp? Standonit mentioned 670? Bob Pockbutt said 670?

What are we actually looking at here?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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They announced 550 for the larger tracks and 670 for the under a mile I think it is and road courses, BUT they have been testing the 670 version at Charlotte so who knows right now, it seems like it is in limbo and Nascar isn't talking about the latest closed test with three cars. :idunno:
 
Pat said:
I don't know if this is worth much, but I'll post it anyways
racer.com

INSIGHT: The clock's ticking on NASCAR's efforts to get Next Gen working

The clock is ticking, and the Next Gen race car still needs work. “It’s got some issues, let’s be honest,” said Martin Truex Jr. of Joe Gibbs Racing. “The car is not where it needs to be. People ar…
racer.com racer.com
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I'm sure people here will spin this and say that Racer Magazine is a propaganda machine or something, but yup. It's almost Christmas and the teams don't have a rulebook legal car yet because the rules haven't been settled on. The clip designs for example were still being altered a few weeks ago, no team has clips that they can show up and race with yet. They have clips they can run the car with, but the clips changed to soften impact and then they all need to be re-made.

Like I've said here, each team is entitled to seven cars. 7 cars times 40 teams means they need to plan for having 280 cars ready. Maybe some small teams won't always have the full amount in rotation, but you need that ability to be there to be fair to the whole field. You can't run into a deal where the big teams get special treatment if there's a parts shortage. And here we are almost at Christmas and teams collectively have zero legal per-the-book cars on hand. Why? Partially because the rules still haven't been decided yet.

The cars being symmetrical, they're backtracking on that. The low HP, they're backtracking on that. The ride-height, they're backtracking on that. Spoiler size, that's in limbo. Control arms, those just changed because the first design was deemed to be too brittle. Exhaust designs are still being tweaked along with heat management solutions.

My point is that when you make these design changes, they're leaning on sole-suppliers to come through with re-making everything in short order. Everything has a lead-time and they're only 57 days away from racing The Clash with a clean-sheet car design that still isn't finalized where they need to approve changes, get the parts, and allow the teams to build them.
 
cheesepuffs said:
The clip designs for example were still being altered a few weeks ago, no team has clips that they can show up and race with yet. They have clips they can run the car with, but the clips changed to soften impact and then they all need to be re-made.
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This is incorrect. New chassis / clips are being delivered with the required modifications in place and have been for several weeks. Front clips manufactured prior to the need to modify have been designated for use in show car chassis.
 
Pat said:
I don't know if this is worth much, but I'll post it anyways
racer.com

INSIGHT: The clock's ticking on NASCAR's efforts to get Next Gen working

The clock is ticking, and the Next Gen race car still needs work. “It’s got some issues, let’s be honest,” said Martin Truex Jr. of Joe Gibbs Racing. “The car is not where it needs to be. People ar…
racer.com racer.com
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You will never find a driver who is content unless he is winning constantly and even then they will complain about something, even the toilet paper supplied.
Hard to drive is good, that means the driver is involved with more than pitstops.
Comfortable is what I like about my Mac truck but should never be a factor in a race car. To get real comfortable slow down which means your NOT racing.
The best drivers are those who find the edge with any car under all conditions.
 
cheesepuffs said:
I'm sure people here will spin this and say that Racer Magazine is a propaganda machine or something, but yup. It's almost Christmas and the teams don't have a rulebook legal car yet because the rules haven't been settled on. The clip designs for example were still being altered a few weeks ago, no team has clips that they can show up and race with yet. They have clips they can run the car with, but the clips changed to soften impact and then they all need to be re-made.

Like I've said here, each team is entitled to seven cars. 7 cars times 40 teams means they need to plan for having 280 cars ready. Maybe some small teams won't always have the full amount in rotation, but you need that ability to be there to be fair to the whole field. You can't run into a deal where the big teams get special treatment if there's a parts shortage. And here we are almost at Christmas and teams collectively have zero legal per-the-book cars on hand. Why? Partially because the rules still haven't been decided yet.

The cars being symmetrical, they're backtracking on that. The low HP, they're backtracking on that. The ride-height, they're backtracking on that. Spoiler size, that's in limbo. Control arms, those just changed because the first design was deemed to be too brittle. Exhaust designs are still being tweaked along with heat management solutions.

My point is that when you make these design changes, they're leaning on sole-suppliers to come through with re-making everything in short order. Everything has a lead-time and they're only 57 days away from racing The Clash with a clean-sheet car design that still isn't finalized where they need to approve changes, get the parts, and allow the teams to build them.
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You don't need every car at the start of the season, you only need the cars for the first 10 races, or the first set of tracks your going to. Also they will never build a car that is suitable for all kinds of tracks. Drivers today are spoiled, let the best drivers who can adapt to all the problems replace the current crop of whiners.
 
Team Penske said:
You don't need every car at the start of the season, you only need the cars for the first 10 races, or the first set of tracks your going to. Also they will never build a car that is suitable for all kinds of tracks. Drivers today are spoiled, let the best drivers who can adapt to all the problems replace the current crop of whiners.
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It's a work in progress and will continue to be so. There should continue to be plenty to complain about when the car hits the track for the hand ringers, but it looks like to me anyway, it's a better version starting out. The concept of having replaceable clips front and rear should keep inventories of whole cars much smaller.

The COT (ED: Car of Tomorrow, used by the Cup Series between 2008 and 2012) was a mess when we started it, and it got better; I hope we can do the same with this car.”
 
Most of these 'problems' sound like something for the teams to worry about, and nothing that's going to keep me awake nights. Come the Clash, one way or the other, they'll all be out on the track. Odds are excellent they'll be in the G7 car, each crew chief basically starting from scratch, each driver on a relatively even footing, at least for the first several races.

And if they're not racing, I'll go birding instead, or any number of other entertainments. Y'all are welcome to join me. Either way, the sun will come up the next morning.
 
****** ridiculous. The Next Gen will be fine. The only certainty in the first few races will be that somebody will find something to bitch about....largely because some in this fan base search continuously for "great racing" which will never be found because it means something different to each fan. Within this narrative, the Next Gen is destined for failure no matter how great it is. Change the narrative to shut up, and watch the ****** race. If you don't like it, watch the next one....and then the next one.....after several attempts, if you still don't like it, figure skating is a viable option unless you are searching for "great skating." Rinse and repeat.
 
StandOnIt said:
It's a work in progress and will continue to be so. There should continue to be plenty to complain about when the car hits the track for the hand ringers, but it looks like to me anyway, it's a better version starting out. The concept of having replaceable clips front and rear should keep inventories of whole cars much smaller.

The COT (ED: Car of Tomorrow, used by the Cup Series between 2008 and 2012) was a mess when we started it, and it got better; I hope we can do the same with this car.”
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I don't understand the bitching.....isn't every car every year, a work in progress? That's what makes this sport great. WTF do people want? A perfect car from the start? You get that, and you will have all of the players with the same solution, and when you have that, you have....wait for it.....bad racing.
 
Revman said:
I don't understand the bitching.....isn't every car every year, a work in progress? That's what makes this sport great. WTF do people want? A perfect car from the start? You get that, and you will have all of the players with the same solution, and when you have that, you have....wait for it.....bad racing.
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Already they have solved the steering problem, and they have various solutions to the heat problem, and most importantly they have saved the crash dummy.
 
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