23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

What ever happened to performance based winning? You win races, get top 5's etc. win money $$$.
You have to help me understand how an absolute arms race won't break out if teams have to win to survive....and the spending that will come with that.....We are already a bit there with battling for sponsors as most want their names on winning cars, but you would have a mess on your hands.
 
Well for those that are a bit cloudy about why charters came about. For a couple of million teams had a guaranteed spot in the show, great for signing sponsors but it did come with a performance clause designed to be rid of under performers. But like everything else, it has morphed into this mess they have today.
 
You have to help me understand how an absolute arms race won't break out if teams have to win to survive....and the spending that will come with that.....We are already a bit there with battling for sponsors as most want their names on winning cars, but you would have a mess on your hands.
It's already here. The two teams that didn't want a cap on spending are guess who, Hendrick and Gibbs. Hell, let them go, but pay enough that the other teams can survive. 12 million is a bit low, but not that far away for the majority of them. But 20 million? give me a break.
 
What would NASCAR be today without Rick Hendrick, Richard Childress, Roger Penske, Joe Gibbs or Jack Roush?
Well, they would be in pretty dire straits. Few are as willing as The Felon is to take a 20 million dollar hit while winning a couple of championships for his buddy, Jimbo France....and I will go back to the kick in the nuts to Childress for doing so, and then getting laughed at. Let's be clear, The Felon is in bed with NASCAR, and NASCAR laughs at Childress.
 
What ever happened to performance based winning? You win races, get top 5's etc. win money $$$.

That still exists. LOL.

Listen to Richard Childress talk some time about how much money he lost when Austin Dillon got kicked out of the playoffs. Or how much money the Wood Brothers gained from Harrison Burton and Josh Berry making the playoffs.
 
As I sit here at the Charlotte airport with over an hour before my connection boards, half-decent kung pao chicken and fried rice already gone. No sign of Denny or the Frances, maybe they don't need my deposition after all?
No sign of NASCAR's presence in the airport's main concourse. The sports gear store was strictly stick and ball.
 
Hendrick crying about losing money, but in the meantime he builds a small but very nice private racetrack on his premises.

Rick Hendrick makes his money from his dealerships and from government contracts. And that motor club, aka "private racetrack," he built on his premises will probably make him money too, with car clubs all over the Carolinas going there to have races or time trial events.
 
That still exists. LOL.

Listen to Richard Childress talk some time about how much money he lost when Austin Dillon got kicked out of the playoffs. Or how much money the Wood Brothers gained from Harrison Burton and Josh Berry making the playoffs.
I posted it many times. I believe it was good for about 3 million for the Wood Bros. That is they way it should be. There should be blood sweat and tears involved. Big money to win a race. Not eh, we are in the playoffs from week one or two, we will act like it means something.
 
Rick Hendrick makes his money from his dealerships and from government contracts. And that motor club, aka "private racetrack," he built on his premises will probably make him money too, with car clubs all over the Carolinas going there to have races or time trial events.
Just take it out farther. With franchises, it's possible to have many large investor groups running the sport. Why? because they will be the only ones to afford it. The haters of course will have plenty to complain about.
 
Teams get a combined $5 million per race, while NASCAR's getting over $30 million per weekend just from Fox, Nexstar, Amazon, WB Discovery and Versant. Most of that money goes back to the tracks which NASCAR owns most of. But the tracks also pay a massive ass sanctioning fee to secure those races. And again, NASCAR owns like half these tracks.

It's a giant finger to the teams. And not the index, pinky, ring, or thumb.
 
With franchises, it's possible to have many large investor groups running the sport. Why? because they will be the only ones to afford it.

We're already there. The only reason you don't have more private equity in NASCAR is because it's not profitable to operate a Cup team. And even then, these teams are turning to private equity and investment firms for backing.
 
Dale Earnhardt, Jr., who is one of the most recognizable and successful athletes of all time, can't afford to operate a Cup team.

And his name was brought up as someone who could've potentially been part of an investment group to buy the Washington Redskins/FootballTeam/Commanders.
 
Dale Earnhardt, Jr., who is one of the most recognizable and successful athletes of all time, can't afford to operate a Cup team.

And his name was brought up as someone who could've potentially been part of an investment group to buy the Washington Redskins/FootballTeam/Commanders.
Can't or doesn't want to. There is a difference. Jr also says the goal in racing is to break even, racing has never been a money making proposition.
 
It isn't any boon to anybody wanting to get into the sport of Cup racing. And just like stick n ball teams can suck for years and they aren't going anywhere.
Is the charter system supposed to benefit people trying to get in? I thought it was to help those who were already competing. I don't see how it can do both - give existing teams a sellable asset AND remain affordable for those looking to get in.

Even if the prices remain at current levels, I think the days of lower tier teams moving up are dead. The most successful Xfinity teams have long been those already affiliated with Cup teams.
 
Is the charter system supposed to benefit people trying to get in? I thought it was to help those who were already competing. I don't see how it can do both - give existing teams a sellable asset AND remain affordable for those looking to get in.

Even if the prices remain at current levels, I think the days of lower tier teams moving up are dead. The most successful Xfinity teams have long been those already affiliated with Cup teams.
Pretty sure one of the options to get rid of the charter systems is on the table.
 
NASCAR giveth, NASCAR taketh away. So much for not having enough control. Screw everyone who bought a charter so NASCAR can get even with 23FRM.
You need some perspective...from Bob.

The judge decides whether NASCAR sells the tracks, gets rid of charters, gets rid of the Next Gen car, gets rid of exclusivity clauses — anything (or combination of things) he views as a way to break up the monopoly. That could mean things neither side wants, although they could then settle that on appeal.

Yes, an appeal. The winner is only winning the first half. There will be appeals.

 
I would like to see that if a team can come up with the operating money to compete in X number of races in Cup they should get full benefits of what they do, how they perform money. Not non franchise money but full money. Pretty sure they aren't paying reduced hard card or entry money or anything else. How they put the jack back in the box pertaining to the charters? That would take probably many accountants big brains to figure that out.
 
Is the charter system supposed to benefit people trying to get in? I thought it was to help those who were already competing.

Bingo. Allow me to jog people's memories: when charters were brought in, NASCAR was already a decade into their existing slide from an interest perspective and teams were getting rocked. NASCAR acquiesced and created these charters not out of the goodness of their own hearts, but to prevent there being a scenario in which they woke up one Sunday morning for race day and suddenly didn't have anything remotely close to a full field. This is why a full field now is 36, not 43 cars according to NASCAR, and field sizes never exceed 40 with 4 open cars who receive a lower cut of the purse.

If there had been piles of teams and drivers ready to get into NASCAR when the charters were introduced, then there would be no charters. Jim France would have let the teams that were struggling go out of business and replaced them. They've only found an increase of interest in starting race teams AFTER introducing the charters.

Even if the prices remain at current levels, I think the days of lower tier teams moving up are dead. The most successful Xfinity teams have long been those already affiliated with Cup teams.

The reality is the reality: if Furniture Row spent $45 million to run a two car team the last year of it's existence and that is what was required to win a title, how is a smaller team with a fraction of that budget supposed to compete? We can even name known quantities like Thorsport here. These teams and people don't exist and haven't existed for many years, otherwise we wouldn't have seen literal field fillers showing up to the Daytona 500 in recent memory.
 
These teams and people don't exist and haven't existed for many years, otherwise we wouldn't have seen literal field fillers showing up to the Daytona 500 in recent memory.
Daytona pays. That is why teams show up. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see if other tracks payed more there wouldn't be a problem and plenty would take a shot at 20th or better. Simple math.
 
I would like to see that if a team can come up with the operating money to compete in X number of races in Cup they should get full benefits of what they do, how they perform money. Not non franchise money but full money. Pretty sure they aren't paying reduced hard card or entry money or anything else. How they put the jack back in the box pertaining to the charters? That would take probably many accountants big brains to figure that out.
What is your intention? If your intention is to provide benefits to the most successful by paying the most successful the bulk of the money, the downside of that is it probably creates a feedback loop similar to F1 pre-Liberty where the same teams on top are always on top and always win all the money. By the same token, if finishing 20th isn't sustainable for a team owner to keep the lights on and doors open, then you won't have 20 cars.
 
Daytona pays. That is why teams show up. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see if other tracks payed more there wouldn't be a problem and plenty would take a shot at 20th or better. Simple math.
Huh. Who owns half the tracks and sanctions 100% of the races?
 
One-time COVID stimulus money isn't the same as decades-long subsidies.
Would NW be up an operational without the Government money?
Wouldn't the point still be applicable for a one time reboot or re-start even if it came from a one off Covid expenditure.
 
What is your intention? If your intention is to provide benefits to the most successful by paying the most successful the bulk of the money, the downside of that is it probably creates a feedback loop similar to F1 pre-Liberty where the same teams on top are always on top and always win all the money. By the same token, if finishing 20th isn't sustainable for a team owner to keep the lights on and doors open, then you won't have 20 cars.
And you can be assured the TV deal is built on X amount of cars.
 
Why does this thread exist?
You don't know why? I don't care what they say they are suing for. They want a big fat guaranteed income that a lifetime franchise guarantee will bring them. I think that will happen over Jim and Lesa France's dead bodies.
 
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