All-Star race experimentation receives mostly high marks

What good is a driver's council if they aren't going to bother listening to the actual athletes in the sport? I didn't hear a single driver doing backflips over the all star package, they know those cars sucked to drive. So then why not sit down with them and put something together that encompasses their ideas for what they feel would make for better racing? They started to do that in 2015 and have done nothing but go the opposite direction since.
 
Very contentious in these parts such my dramatic post yesterday
 
AdoubleU24 said:
What good is a driver's council if they aren't going to bother listening to the actual athletes in the sport? I didn't hear a single driver doing backflips over the all star package, they know those cars sucked to drive. So then why not sit down with them and put something together that encompasses their ideas for what they feel would make for better racing? They started to do that in 2015 and have done nothing but go the opposite direction since.
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https://racer.com/2018/05/19/most-drivers-think-all-star-aero-package-put-on-a-good-show/
 
Spotter22 said:
https://racer.com/2018/05/19/most-drivers-think-all-star-aero-package-put-on-a-good-show/
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***Kyle Larson called the race “pretty fun.” However, he was also hesitant about using the package again.

“I wouldn’t mind seeing it here because Charlotte is probably one of our worst mile-and-a-halfs with our current package, so places like this I think it would be OK,” said Larson. “I would hate for them to do it everywhere, it would get a little tiring going that slow every week. But every now and then, it’s not bad.”

Fun was also had by Jimmie Johnson. His feedback regarding using this package in the future was reserved, as Johnson said he needed to put a different hat on than that of driver.

“I think we need to look at fan appeal and what the product looked like on television,” he said. “I know there was a lot of competitive passes and passes throughout the field, especially for the lead. As a racecar driver, I’ve always wanted to drive something with more power and go faster and faster.***


All I see are a bunch of backhanded compliments. Which most times means we aren't really saying what we truly feel.
 
Sometimes it gets a little exhausting wading through even just a few pages on this board. My apologies if I missed that part of the discussion. It's a part that nobody has an answer for though. They don't listen to their athletes, plain and simple.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Sometimes it gets a little exhausting wading through even just a few pages on this board. My apologies if I missed that part of the discussion. It's a part that nobody has an answer for though. They don't listen to their athletes, plain and simple.
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for instance, if you look at what you posted about Larson, what Nascar is proposing to do is exactly what he said. “I would hate for them to do it everywhere.
fans could get their first look at the All-Star package at Las Vegas Motor Speedway on March 3 followed by Auto Club Speedway on March 17.
The configuration could also be used for both races at Texas Motor Speedway (3/31, 11/3), Kansas Speedway (5/11, 10/20), Michigan Speedway (6/9, 8/11) the Charlotte May races (5/18, 5/26), Chicagoland Speedway (6/30), Kentucky Speedway (7/13) and Indianapolis Motor Speedway (9/9).

 
Mopardh9 said:
I said this year dude...this year, past years yes. Answer the question...or maybe you don't know enough to answer it. One more time...why change anything when the racing had been much better this year?
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It is your opinion that it is better. :idunno:
 
StandOnIt said:
for instance, if you look at what you posted about Larson, what Nascar is proposing to do is exactly what he said. “I would hate for them to do it everywhere.
fans could get their first look at the All-Star package at Las Vegas Motor Speedway on March 3 followed by Auto Club Speedway on March 17.
The configuration could also be used for both races at Texas Motor Speedway (3/31, 11/3), Kansas Speedway (5/11, 10/20), Michigan Speedway (6/9, 8/11) the Charlotte May races (5/18, 5/26), Chicagoland Speedway (6/30), Kentucky Speedway (7/13) and Indianapolis Motor Speedway (9/9).
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LOL this is exactly what he meant by "everywhere". What's left besides a bunch of tracks you wouldn't dare run this at? Wait till Atlanta repaves, that'll be one more off the list.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
LOL this is exactly what he meant by "everywhere". What's left besides a bunch of tracks you wouldn't dare run this at? Wait till Atlanta repaves, that'll be one more off the list.
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If it produces better racing, what is your fear? people complain about the changes to the car, do you think they will continue to run something that doesn't work? How many changes in the last ten years have they made to the cars trying to get them to race better on the 1.5's and the changes to the tracks? . They have a problem with all of those 1.5's IMO. They have gone high down force, low downforce, progressive banking, knocking down one end. On and on. And nope they aren't going to tear down billions of dollars worth of tracks to gamble and go back to the stone ages, so they are trying something else. Might work might not. :idunno:
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That depends on how one defines 'better racing'. ;)
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I guess a lively discussion about that isn't allowed? I thought it was a hot topic myself, I guess we can talk about something deathbeddy. Nobody I know of in 19 pages has used the old excuse of losing attendance to justify their position. We pretty much have stayed on topic for 19 pages..has to be a new record. :D
 
gnomesayin said:
The proposed package... will ruin some of the best tracks where the surface has aged to allow for difficult, high speed, slick racing... The "drafting package" will also be a clusterf**k at more single groove tracks...

The correct adjustments would have been more power and working on less sideforce....
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Indeed. I am devastated at the prospect of seeing the guts ripped out of Nascar racing.

It feels like an impossible longshot, but I'm just going to say there is one possible caveat... that the so-called NA18D package has not been announced yet for all these tracks. No announcement has been made, and no media has even picked up on Lee Spencer's initial story on RacinBoys.com (a site I've never even heard of before). Lee Spencer has broken some stories before, only to back track. Why has no other media jumped on this story?

Spencer's story said there was a Nascar document titled as a "proposal" for discussions with the industry on July 11. Is it possible that other opinions will prevail?

Having said that, my prediction is that Nascar race results will soon take a large step toward greater randomness. I've posted for the last 3+ years my doubts that Nascar brass would stick with "putting the race back in the hands of the drivers." I desperately wanted to be wrong in my prediction, so I'm looking for any glimmer of hope, no matter how unlikely it seems.
 
What they have accomplished with the lower downforce package is putting the race in the engineers hands instead of the drivers for the most part. It sounded great, the drivers came up with it. Make then harder to drive they said. What has the lower downforce package accomplished in two years? The have's went to work immediately and made the cars easier to drive. Hours and bucks to gain an edge with downforce and aero. For the last two years the haves have continued to separate themselves further into a engineering two or three team battle. Very little if anything has changed. The short tracks and the road racing continues to produce the best racing and sleight hope that somebody else has a chance to win a race.

About the article. Having a proposal or discussions are just that and nothing more. Until Nascar comes out with the 2019 rules package it is nothing more than a great discussion topic IMO. Nascar is restricted from making sweeping rules changes unless it is in the interest of safety. I believe a lengthy notice has to be given teams for any large changes. Scott Miller doesn't say yes or no about the NA18D package, but it sounds like a proposal has been made and I think that would be a first step.

from Jayski

Scott Miller, NASCAR's Senior Vice President of Competition confirmed the possibility of changes on Monday's Morning Drive on SiriusXM NASCAR Radio.

"Work for 2019 has definitely begun," Miller said. "We're working closely with the industry trying to come up with the 2019 rules package and whether or not that incorporates something similar to what we saw at the Charlotte All-Star event or an iteration of that."

NASCAR emphasized the 2019 plans had not been finalized and provided the following statement to RacinBoys.com:

"Discussions with the industry concerning the 2019 rules package continue as planned. We look forward to sharing information once the rules have been finalized."
 
AdoubleU24 said:
What good is a driver's council if they aren't going to bother listening to the actual athletes in the sport? I didn't hear a single driver doing backflips over the all star package, they know those cars sucked to drive. So then why not sit down with them and put something together that encompasses their ideas for what they feel would make for better racing? They started to do that in 2015 and have done nothing but go the opposite direction since.
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Yeah, well Farmer Carl et al. wanted lower downforce, got it, and now in the opinion of the masses (or not), the racing sucks again. I guess that's why.
AdoubleU24 said:
What good is a driver's council if they aren't going to bother listening to the actual athletes in the sport? I didn't hear a single driver doing backflips over the all star package, they know those cars sucked to drive. So then why not sit down with them and put something together that encompasses their ideas for what they feel would make for better racing? They started to do that in 2015 and have done nothing but go the opposite direction since.
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You could have stopped at the first phrase...."What good is the driver's council?...."
StandOnIt said:
What they have accomplished with the lower downforce package is putting the race in the engineers hands instead of the drivers for the most part. It sounded great, the drivers came up with it. Make then harder to drive they said. What has the lower downforce package accomplished in two years? The have's went to work immediately and made the cars easier to drive. Hours and bucks to gain an edge with downforce and aero. For the last two years the haves have continued to separate themselves further into a engineering two or three team battle. Very little if anything has changed. The short tracks and the road racing continues to produce the best racing and sleight hope that somebody else has a chance to win a race.

About the article. Having a proposal or discussions are just that and nothing more. Until Nascar comes out with the 2019 rules package it is nothing more than a great discussion topic IMO. Nascar is restricted from making sweeping rules changes unless it is in the interest of safety. I believe a lengthy notice has to be given teams for any large changes. Scott Miller doesn't say yes or no about the NA18D package, but it sounds like a proposal has been made and I think that would be a first step.

from Jayski

Scott Miller, NASCAR's Senior Vice President of Competition confirmed the possibility of changes on Monday's Morning Drive on SiriusXM NASCAR Radio.

"Work for 2019 has definitely begun," Miller said. "We're working closely with the industry trying to come up with the 2019 rules package and whether or not that incorporates something similar to what we saw at the Charlotte All-Star event or an iteration of that."

NASCAR emphasized the 2019 plans had not been finalized and provided the following statement to RacinBoys.com:

"Discussions with the industry concerning the 2019 rules package continue as planned. We look forward to sharing information once the rules have been finalized."
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I get to the point where it seems to me that a lot of money and time is being spent trying to avoid a spec series. Screw it, and just go IROC. Everybody has the chance at a trophy.
 
Revman said:
Yeah, well Farmer Carl et al. wanted lower downforce, got it, and now in the opinion of the masses (or not), the racing sucks again. I guess that's why.
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The racing doesn't suck in my eyes. The racing in the last two or three years is AS GOOD as it's EVER been, and BETTER than it's been in MOST of Nascar's history.
 
LewTheShoe said:
The racing doesn't suck in my eyes. The racing in the last two or three years is AS GOOD as it's EVER been, and BETTER than it's been in MOST of Nascar's history.
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I could not agree more, and I believe that the fact that NASCAR is considering changes is representative of a sanctioning body which just might have really lost its way.
 
Revman said:
Yeah, well Farmer Carl et al. wanted lower downforce, got it, and now in the opinion of the masses (or not), the racing sucks again. I guess that's why.
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Well they lowered it and have done nothing but add it back since. That and the engineers did what they do best and added it back in their own ways. Engineering is this sports biggest problem, but what do you do about it?
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Well they lowered it and have done nothing but add it back since. That and the engineers did what they do best and added it back in their own ways. Engineering is this sports biggest problem, but what do you do about it?
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You cannot put the genie back in the bottle as they say.....and if you could, what would you have? An outdated series with no relevance to anything...road cars, modern race cars.....nothing.
 
I know I am not naive as hell to think that the aero package if implemented is going to change a damn thing about who wins the races. But I am sure open to anything that helps reduce the follow the leader I see on the problem child tracks.

The best "engineering package" breakthrough they have made to improve the racing the last couple of years is VHT IMO.
 
StandOnIt said:
I know I am not naive as hell to think that the aero package if implemented is going to change a damn thing about who wins the races. But I am sure open to anything that helps reduce the follow the leader I see on the problem child tracks.

The best "engineering package" breakthrough they have made to improve the racing the last couple of years is VHT IMO.
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Interesting points here.....if the tracks are the problem, you build or go to different tracks....this is impossible obviously. The next best, most cost effective thing would be to modify/alter the existing tracks. This is what is happening with decent results. I think you manage a variable at a time, or this sport will get lost if it isn't already. Mess with the track and the cars, and you are going to have a mess on a lot of different levels.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
VHT may improve the racing but it won't elminate the engineering gap between teams.
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Yeah, and that gap is there because of money and we all know that. That won't change, and if it does--everybody becomes truly equal/different winners/crapshoot--do you think the big money guys will stick around? Hell no. They want to control their own destinies--that's how they became big money guys in the first place.
 
Revman said:
Interesting points here.....if the tracks are the problem, you build or go to different tracks....this is impossible obviously. The next best, most cost effective thing would be to modify/alter the existing tracks. This is what is happening with decent results. I think you manage a variable at a time, or this sport will get lost if it isn't already. Mess with the track and the cars, and you are going to have a mess on a lot of different levels.
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yep the VHT IMO has done more to improve the racing lately than any package they have come up with. And this year they have the Roval, who knows how that is going to turn out, but it is a damn expensive unproven experiment. Do I think the same teams are going to suddenly become back markers at the Roval? But one thing I do know, it will be exciting..and there is your sign. And I happen to think with a bit here and there the All Star package can prolong side by side racing at the problem tracks. Keyword again? exciting. Same bunch is going to win, I don't know who would think different, but an attempt to transform these single line tracks into multi groove racing is going to produce more exciting racing if they could get it to work.
 
StandOnIt said:
yep the VHT IMO has done more to improve the racing lately than any package they have come up with. And this year they have the Roval, who knows how that is going to turn out, but it is a damn expensive unproven experiment. Do I think the same teams are going to suddenly become back markers at the Roval? But one thing I do know, it will be exciting..and there is your sign. And I happen to think with a bit here and there the All Star package can prolong side by side racing at the problem tracks. Keyword again? exciting.
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I have noted that you have done a ton for my appreciation of road course racing, and I am very excited about the roval. Anything short of spec racing, and I am good IF it pleases the masses. I am easy, but I understand how important it is that this sport is appealing to all fans.
 
careful or you will become one of dark vaders around here :D ..casual fans and popular opinions are to be destroyed, ignored, and considered to be parts of lower life forms.
 
StandOnIt said:
And this year they have the Roval, who knows how that is going to turn out, but it is a damn expensive unproven experiment.
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It would have been less expensive if they had just run the original layout instead of monkeying around with a variety of infield courses.

Bruton usually gets his money back, and more.
 
Revman said:
I could not agree more, and I believe that the fact that NASCAR is considering changes is representative of a sanctioning body which just might have really lost its way.
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Totally agree, NASCAR has brought back my interest this year, to change what seems to be working much better, makes zero sense. This is NASCAR tho, so I guess it's to be expected.
 
I mean Jesus. All these random power level changes are literally throwing darts at a dartboard.. They are talking about inputing this configuration for half the season with no idea what it’s going to do or even what they want it to do..


The fact that they are doing all this work to the engine without ****** with the body(where the ‘big 3’ have their advantage) makes me feel like we are about to see the same show but slower.
 
StandOnIt said:
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Pretty much doing the same thing with tapered spacers, cutting down HP. Why do this to an engine intended to create 800hp when you could just mandate an engine producing 500hp? Another bandaid, one that isn't needed. If you are going to slow down these cars get them off the pavement, slow them down ith a completely different aero package. Tapered spacer, plates, another gimmick to push more fans away from the sport.
 
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