All-Star race experimentation receives mostly high marks

Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by StandOnIt, May 20, 2018.

  1. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    NASCAR sent a proposed rules package to teams last week. Teams are reviewing it and then will get back with officials to discuss.

    NASCAR has stated that it plans to use a package similar to the one used in the All-Star Race next year. The All-Star package included a restrictor plate, air ducts, a taller spoiler and the 2014 style splitter.

    In the rules package sent to teams it included horsepower targets based on open throttle time and what plate sizes would be needed.

    People who saw the rules proposal last week told NBC Sports it didn’t state how many races it would be used in.

    “If we end up going with the All-Star package, it’s a real dart board,” Keselowski said. “Because none of the cars have been tested under that configuration. I have no idea how we’ll be competitively. But if we go or stick with a package similar to what we have right now, I expect this race car to be extremely competitive and a pretty big advancement from where we’re at right now with the Fusion.”

    Of the wait for the package to be confirmed, Stewart said “It’s always been that way.

    “You act like this is something new. This is their MO. This is not something we’re not used to.”

    https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2018/0...optimistic-about-prospects-of-mustang-in-cup/
     
  2. AdoubleU24

    AdoubleU24 Team Owner

    I hope all the teams write "**** OFF, RETURN TO SENDER" on the envelopes and shove them back in the mail truck.
     
  3. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    If you can keep your head while all around you are losing theirs, you haven't see the latest tech bulletins. :rolleyes:
     
  4. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

  5. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    Come on Harvick. We need you bud
     
  6. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

  7. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Some killer lines there. "Skepticism to any package that reduces driver skill and increases randomness or forced parity." Yep, that's the jist of it.

    Tony Stewart: "The embodiment of everything he has opposed in NASCAR over the past decade." I don't always agree with Stewart about everything, such as matters of personal interaction. But he lives and breathes racing more than just about anyone, and knows what the hell he's talking about. I can't believe some are so willing to cast these voices aside in favor of the 'show'.
     
  8. Cholo

    Cholo Team Owner

    If they institute the all star package in other tracks that might be what finally makes me quit watching. NASCAR has to realize people want competition not gimmicks, you may gain a few casual fans but turning races into random restrictor plate nightmares would be a disaster. I enjoy races like Texas where it's about speed and the car, not who randomly survives wrecks or happens to be in the right place.
     
    DUN24, FLRacingFan, Snappy D and 3 others like this.
  9. LewTheShoe

    LewTheShoe Team Owner

    The main proponent of pack racing has always been Brian France. He is gone now. Nascar, your credibility... at least with me... is on the line. The current low downforce era has produced many thrilling, skill-based races. The racing has *never* been better, and seldom has it been equal to what we have now. What needs to happen next is to reduce side force, and then work on enhancing economic parity (or resource parity) between teams.

    Your credibility is on the line, Nascar. Don't f**k this up.
     
  10. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    I am fed up with the idea I work my butt off to get ahead then get taxed so the lazy ones can live in style. Economic parity in racing is about the same as everyone gets welfare. Why should a rich man have to support new owners that don't have the financial backing to go racing????

    Cut the number of cars back to 30 ( charters ) by eliminating the last place car each year
    until you reach that goal. Then allow as many as want to qualify for two spots and give a bye to
    the last winner, total 33 cars per race.
    Also, figuer out a package that 60% of team owners (not car owners) agree with for a total of 4 packages to be used at differnt tracks ( 1.5 miles, 1 mile or less, road course, and wrecking races) then lock those packages in for min. 3-5 yrs. This is what will help the teams with less financial resources.
     
    machinistman3 likes this.
  11. Mopardh9

    Mopardh9 Team Owner

    Don't worry they will, it's in their DNA.
     
  12. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    This.
     
    machinistman3 likes this.
  13. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    I would agree to a point, BUT unlike in regular business where putting your competitor out of business is a good thing (for you), in sports, putting your competitors out of business means you have no sport...... I don't think it's practical for NASCAR, but I'm a big supporter of salary caps in the stick and ball sports. It allows the smaller market teams to compete on close to equal grounds with the big market teams and gives everybody a CHANCE. Teams like Green Bay, Indianapolis and Cincinnati would not even exist without it. The cream still rises to the top. The Browns and Patriots have the same salary cap, but there sure is a HUGE difference in results.
     
    FLRacingFan likes this.
  14. AdoubleU24

    AdoubleU24 Team Owner

    This would never happen, but entertain me. If the drivers banded together and refused to drive the package, and the teams or team owners backed them in doing so with support from their sponsors, what could or what would NASCAR do?
     
  15. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    I think NASCAR could do all sorts of administrative things like revoke charters and suspend credentials, but nothing that would directly affect the teams' abilities to field race cars.

    SMI would swoop in like a rocket-propelled vulture on steroids and open their tracks to the teams mostly on the scheduled race dates, as would Dover and likely Indy. I say 'mostly on the scheduled race dates' because Bruton would love to open the season at Charlotte even if he needs snow plows.

    The big question is, what would the ISC do, either as a corporation or as individual tracks? If they stand by NASCAR, they'll quickly see their traditional dates picked up by those tracks that have been hankering for Cup dates, esp. the tracks that already host Trucks and Xfinity (I'm looking at you, Road America, Canadian MoSport, Mid-Ohio, etc.). If they decide to host races anyway, it would shred their existing incestuous relationship with the sanctioning body.

    I can't calculate the effects on network TV contracts. Obviously NASCAR is the body that receives the checks and distributes the money. I don't know how quickly networks, SMI, and the other tracks could put together individual contracts. Those contracts would likely be significantly smaller than the existing ones, and everyone involved would make less money.

    In reality, -IF- drivers are really unhappy with the package over the long run, you'll see them leave stock car racing for other forms of motorsports, ones they feel are more challenging. Some teams will likely follow or close.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
    AdoubleU24 likes this.
  16. Revman

    Revman Playoff Spec

    This idea of parity is a joke. As KB pointed out....NASCAR supposedly has been in search of this, but who is constantly at the top? All NASCAR is doing is costing the richest teams more money. Money they have, and at the moment seem to be willing to spend. Where the hell is the RTA on this? I mean the insurance and travel cost thing is a ******* joke. Those are middle class values. They are not middle class, and they cannot buy middle class to connect with the fan base. Now, millions in development costs seems to be what I would think the RTA would want to concern itself with.....but nothing I guess. Connect the dots between TV and attendance, Brian France, and this new rules package; and I am very worried about our sport. The rules package is just fine right now. Leave it alone.....and most importantly, NASCAR needs to learn how to interpret social media voices.
     
  17. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    Ol Harv flips around a lot.

    "We had just a great All-Star race and a lot of positive momentum. Let's just make sure that the next time it's on the track it's as good, if not better than it was at the All-Star race.

    "Everybody agreed to go to the All-Star Race and do something different and see how it goes and everybody liked the outcome.

    https://sports.yahoo.com/harvick-nascar-apos-aero-change-113016677.html?src=rss
     
    machinistman3 likes this.
  18. Revman

    Revman Playoff Spec

    Prepping for that retirement gig in broadcasting.
     
    StandOnIt likes this.
  19. Snappy D

    Snappy D 2017 Pick Em Champion

    I enjoy unfiltered Smoke. He’s the only one who really tells it like it is. Seems like Harv threw his hands up and said screw it. I can’t believe NASCAR is actually considering a restrictor plate for the above mentioned tracks. That’s the total opposite of what I want as a fan. Unreal.
     
    FLRacingFan, gnomesayin and Mopardh9 like this.
  20. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    Probably right after he won the All Star race. It was just fine then.
     
    Revman likes this.
  21. Revman

    Revman Playoff Spec

    Scary IMO.
     
    Snappy D and DUN24 like this.
  22. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    I have been a fan of Tony since his first race in Nascar. He says all kinds of stuff and makes KDB sound like a saint when it comes to complaining about something. Tony is always complaining about something. Even Brian said something about it one time. If the aero package includes that huge honking tire cutting splitter they finally got rid of a couple years ago, I know I will be disappointed, I have always wondered who is the idiot that came up with that on the original COT. I took one look at it and knew what it was going to do to anybody's tire that came in contact with it. It became a weapon.
     
  23. Mopardh9

    Mopardh9 Team Owner

    I'll say it again...why fix something that isn't broken. The only bad racing is on the plate tracks, why add more?:confused:
     
  24. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    So your response to the drivers stating how concerning this move is for the sport of NASCAR is “They’re always complaining about something!”

    Absurd bud....
     
  25. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    In this one case, do you think he has a point?
     
  26. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    I never heard it called "road racing stuff" before by anybody and that "stuff" appeared with the COT. a long long time ago. When Tony called it that yesterday it made perfect sense. About like who is a fan of Brian, compared to who is a fan of the splitter? Probably get about the same results. IDK know why I am getting all of these snarky comments about what Tony said..the point of the post was about not liking the big honkin splitter IF they decide to use some kind of aero package for some of their tracks.
     
  27. LewTheShoe

    LewTheShoe Team Owner

    Pete, I didn't write clearly, sorry about that. When I referred to economic parity or resource parity, my intent was to support cost reduction that would affect all teams... things like multi-use engines, or limits on wind tunnel usage, or maybe composite bodies. Testing limits were an early example, but much more is needed. I do not favor revenue limits, revenue sharing, revenue taxing, or most forms of general spending caps or salary caps. And I certainly realize there will always be richer teams and poorer teams, and usually it's based on merit. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  28. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    oh the terrible up roar when the trucks went with a spec motor, and the same was said by many when Xfinity went to composite bodies. But both of these changes made it more affordable for the smaller teams to close the gap and it has made the racing better. The big money teams will continue to science out anything that comes along. Lately the sealed motor rule in cup has saved the smaller teams tons of money as has the crash cart. Part of the changes for 2019 has to do with more sealed motors, and getting rid of the incar track bar adjuster, both of these changes will help lesser teams. And as usual anything that could possibly affect the top teams ability to continue to dominate the sport will be downplayed in the media. And BTW I don't care how it doesn't save the top teams a dime and they will spend it elsewhere. With tough economic times, cost savings that enhance the competition it a smart way to go about it.
     
    Mopardh9 likes this.
  29. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    You’re comparing changing the entire aspect of how this sport is competed in(a negative change that no one is asking for) to a splitter with turnbuckles or a spec truck motor or a different body design material...


    Also, I must have missed the uproar over the spec engine. Any anger towards the composite body was relating to body men losing their jobs in the sport.
     
  30. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Wasn't against spec motors or composite bodies for Trucks or Xfinity. I stated in those threads that those series need to stay viable above all, and difficult choices are necessary sometimes.

    The drafting package isn't at all comparable, as the primary argument for it is how much more entertaining it supposedly is to watch.
     
    DUN24 likes this.
  31. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    There wasn't any comparison :confused: I was talking about reducing expenses (part of the 2019 rule changes) and you must have not been around when the spec motor in the trucks was announced..Kyle Bush threatening to quit..Revman having a fit ETC. remember?
     
  32. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

    This is the first I've heard of this. Is there any significant cost savings associated with yet another engine and aero configuration? In all likelihood we will have three separate configurations to bring to a track next year.
     
  33. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    That is a good point but one I wasn't talking about. I have no idea the costs involved with one more package change. But one of my comments was that the top teams will science out anything that comes along. It wasn't pertaining to that but it fits. On the other hand the other teams who don't have a wind tunnel handy could possibly benefit with whatever different package they come up with. The all important aero advantage would probably be reduced. It seemed to be that way at Charlotte. The top teams don't want anything to threaten that advantage.
     
    Team Penske and FLRacingFan like this.
  34. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle


    It’s not just the top teams that are against the proposed changes.... and you’re right, they will science it out and the cream of the 170mph crop will rise to the top.
     
    Snappy D likes this.
  35. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    I have no idea, the smaller teams don't get interviewed or questioned usually, they are mostly ignored. And again for the hundredth time, I have no idea if there is going to be a package or what it will be if it does come about. I have my own opinions about it just like everybody else
     
    Snappy D likes this.
  36. Snappy D

    Snappy D 2017 Pick Em Champion

    Tony seems like a cool dude, always been a favorite of mine even when he drove for The Preacher. I’ll always remember the time he eviscerated DW on a Live Pre Race interview in maybe 05,06 ( my memory betrays me.) and yes Tondy did and still does complain about a lot. But I would say he was a leader in that garage when he drove, something that sorely may be missing now.
     
    Mopardh9 likes this.
  37. Snappy D

    Snappy D 2017 Pick Em Champion

    I don’t like it they will get rid of the in car track adjuster.....just another tool they are taking away from the driver to help his car get better in race. Man, what’s going on with this crap.
     
    Charlie Spencer likes this.
  38. rd45usa

    rd45usa Days gone past

    I don't think we're being told everything about the trackbar adjuster, I think there's more to it than is being told. But my opinion might be "skewed" a little.
     
    Charlie Spencer and StandOnIt like this.
  39. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    We are talking about racing not stick and ball. You want salary caps on drivers so the poor ones can hire the best?? Build your team and sponsorship up so you can afford a top driver.
     
    Mopardh9 likes this.
  40. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

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