All-Star race experimentation receives mostly high marks

Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by StandOnIt, May 20, 2018.

  1. Mispeedway15

    Mispeedway15 Team Owner

    I’m not sure why HP needs to be lessened but you should be able to mess with the cars aerodynamically to make them get a draft better
  2. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    Bring back the wickerbill! ;)
  3. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

  4. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Ah, trotting out the old "listening to the fans" canard again.

    They are listening to themselves squawk in an echo chamber.

    I wish Mark Martin had a bigger platform, because he is on point.
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  5. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    They literally can’t find a driver in support of the changes. It’s comical.

    The number of fans in support of changes seems to be decreasing by the day. During the all star race r/NASCAR was creaming themselves, they’ve come to their senses recently it appears.
    JBone88 and FLRacingFan like this.
  6. Switchback

    Switchback Team Owner

    This place was screaming in support of it immediately after the all star race. The rate the race ratings were through the roof from the majority. That seems to have died down some too. I'm guessing the drivers are swaying a few opinions. If the fastest car/driver on the track takes the lead and cannot drive away , I'm no longer interested in watching.
  7. AdoubleU24

    AdoubleU24 Team Owner

    I think people were OK with it until they heard the drivers exit the cars and talk about how easy it was. That was an unknown while the race was going on.
  8. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    Oh yes they were going apeshit over here too..
  9. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    One of the reasons I don't like Daytona or Talladega plate races.
    Switchback likes this.
  10. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

    One of the big NASCAR PR employees is spin, spin, spinning this hard in the /r/NASCAR thread on the same article.

    He actually said "fans overwhelmingly want this" followed a few comments later by "I don't have the data".


    Edit: link -
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
    Snappy D likes this.
  11. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    I'm guessing NASCAR certainly does have the data. Of course, it doesn't necessarily support their position...
  12. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    Yup, he backed it up with fan council findings(of which he didn’t specify) that don’t exist as far as anyone can tell.
  13. AuzGrams

    AuzGrams Team Owner

    Pretty disappointed that article points out removing a race from Pocono Raceway when it's one of the few tracks on the schedule that's independently owned. Not saying it deserves 2 races either, but SMI and ISC monopoly is a huge problem.
  14. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

  15. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    I haven't seen commentary from anyone who liked the All-Star race but later was persuaded by negative driver reaction to not support it. Some of us had a good handle on the effects of greatly reducing power and increasing downforce and drag. Some were critical from the beginning, others have been enthusiastic about it. I think the drivers' voices should count and be taken seriously, certainly more so than certain media figures who are always dissatisfied and chasing the next fix. But the effect on driving difficulty was not an unknown mystery.
    Charlie Spencer and DUN24 like this.
  16. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    Stay at the dirt levels instead of getting into asphalt.

    If they still want to do asphalt they can always get into WRC, ARCA, IndyCar or not shoot for the Cup Series if they are interested in NASCAR. They have plenty of options.
    FLRacingFan likes this.
  17. Snappy D

    Snappy D 2017 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor

    Yuck. Yuck. Yuck. To Go from an awesome race Saturday back to this crap......I hope it’s not true.
  18. Switchback

    Switchback Team Owner

    These guys could take what they have left of there star power and easily get another national touring series off the ground. Nascar would be nothing but a heap of rubble left in there wake. It won't happen, but they could.

    In reality what I think will happen with any package that looks like the all Star plate fiasco is this; the top guys in the sport with nothing left to prove will move on since they can't outrun buckshot Jones anymore.

    Also, Danica got into this sport a few years too early. She could have been a race win contender with the all Star package. You also may want to call Travis pastrana, Ricky Carmichael, and any other of the potential saviors of Nascars past. They'll all be able to win now . Heck, Nascar could even give them a little bit "special" plate to make sure they race up front.
    FLRacingFan and Charlie Spencer like this.
  19. LewTheShoe

    LewTheShoe Team Owner

    Personally, I hate the idea of dumbing down the difficulty of driving the cars and diluting the role of driver skill in the races. By your many posts, I am aware that you do as well. But I don't doubt for a minute that an overwhelming majority of Nascar fans prefer the All Star engine and aero rules over the "normal" 2018 rules that specify more power, less downforce, and less drag. You could start by reviewing comments in this thread...

    Rate The All Star Races: Charlotte

    It frustrates me, but I don't think the average Nascar fan even recognizes the difficulty of driving and racing these 2018 cars, nor does he care about it. The prevailing theory is... beating and banging and wrecking plus numerous passes for the lead is the definition of good racing, without regard for how it is obtained.

    The membership here is not representative of all Nascar fans. In general, we tend to be more avid as fans, more knowledgeable about the sport, and less receptive to any change. But even here, I think its fair to say support for the All Star race was "overwhelming."

    The job of Jim and Lesa France as owners and stewards of Nascar is not just to give the fans what they want, or what they think they want today. It is their job to protect and enhance the value of the brand over the long haul. They need to be smarter and better equipped (with data and business acumen) than the average fan. They need to realize that diluted, dumbed down racing will accelerate the decline of Nascar, not reverse it. The appeal of glossed up pack racing would be as fleeting as polyester leisure suits IMO, so I hope they don't go "all in" on that.
  20. Snappy D

    Snappy D 2017 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor

    Well said. This package seems the wrong way to go, we’ll see what they come up with
  21. aunty dive

    aunty dive Team Owner

    It isn’t helpful to have to start every season with entirely different aerodynamic equations at the heart of every wind-tunnel test and race simulation.

    To say nothing of the added cost.
  22. TexasRaceLady

    TexasRaceLady Plank Owner Contributor

    It would be nice if rules would stay the same for a while.
    Johali, Charlie Spencer and BobbyFord like this.
  23. BobbyFord

    BobbyFord Resident Gearhead Contributor

    I think the fans deserve some consistency after the past decade or so of desperate floundering.
  24. ReturnTrip

    ReturnTrip Team Owner

    NASCAR will regret it when one team figures out the package and stinks up the show every week. You know damn well Rodney Childers will find a way.
  25. AndyMarquisLive

    AndyMarquisLive Short Track Fanatic

    This was a great article.
    It's gonna happen.
    JBone88 and Zerkfitting like this.
  26. Joker

    Joker #1 Harvick Fan

    If this is true, consider my fandom of NASCAR postponed - perhaps cancelled altogether if this kills the sport entirely.
  27. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    nobody knows what the aero package is if there is one, but whatever it is they don't like it. ;)o_O
  28. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    Those who can afford to might retire. Those who can't will stick around.

    The real issue is those drivers still coming up, esp. those who haven't reach the level of a national touring series yet. NASCAR doesn't have a monopoly on motorsports. They may go to open wheel, sports cars, sprint cars, etc; somewhere they feel is more challenging. The money may not be competitive but that doesn't seem to bother drivers already running in those series. The owners may decide to follow them or leave racing entirely, selling off to the Front Rows and Levines that are left.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  29. Switchback

    Switchback Team Owner

    The pay may not be an issue for long. If Nascar decides to run a large portion of there schedule as plate races, there may not be much money left for paying drivers in the future. Another series could easily end up being the premier series in time.

    Even a 3 wide, fender rubbing, last lap pass for the lead will lose its luster if it happens on a weekly basis. Nothing is special anymore once it becomes common. Taking power away to force these guys to ride around in packs in some sort of chess match type race will lose its appeal quickly. I am willing to guarantee that after any initial spike that may occur, the nosedive that ratings will take shortly after will blow right by current lows.

    Now if Nascar comes up with a package that doesn't get hung up in dirty air, but the faster car/drivers can drive away, that could be really cool. I'm not sure they want that though. In that scenario, once the fastest team on any given day finds the front, they are going to drive away just like the leader does now.
  30. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

    Look at this. One race with lower downforce and everyone convinced - convinced! - that it was the way to long-term. Then - it sucked. We hated lower downforce. I do not thinking NASCAR fans overwhelmingly support a particular package as much as they are fascinated by the latest shiny object. And I absolutely think there's been an about-face in support once fans realized they were being finessed and it wasn't just going to be for Indy or whatever, but for half the damn schedule. Drivers speaking out has helped as well. I would be shocked if any poll taken right now came anywhere close to data derived around the time of the All-Star Race.

    gnomesayin likes this.
  31. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

    if Mr. Official NASCAR PR Guy is making the rounds on the Internet trying to justify this, it's happening. It's pretty clear what the setup will look like next season. It's just a matter of time before they announce it.
    JBone88 and Snappy D like this.
  32. AdoubleU24

    AdoubleU24 Team Owner

    Didn't the engineers ruin the low downforce package? If they could keep their paws off and stop undoing everything we'd probably still be happy lol.

    They're going to screw with anything that NASCAR throws out there, including this garbage next year. I don't think we're ever going to see a cup series again where we're excited by the racing on a consistent basis. There will be plenty of bad, some good, and others great, and we'll just have to accept it.
  33. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    That's what the owners pay the engineers to do - make the cars go faster. I'm not sure why you're blaming the engineers for doing their jobs, especially within the rules
    Mopardh9 likes this.
  34. AdoubleU24

    AdoubleU24 Team Owner

    Oh I'm not, I'm saying we're too a point in this sport where teams are going to engineer their way out of whatever NASCAR throws at them which means that no matter the package, we're going to find ourselves having these discussions.
  35. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    if it is so clear what is it?
  36. Westy

    Westy Support local tracks

    Idk how NASCAR can have a premier series with cars that crank out less horsepower than some of the "lower tier" series. What is the point of having a premier series that goes to large tracks if the power of the cars has to be choked down to less than a super late model?

    Surely with the combined resources of NASCAR and their teams' engineers they can find a way to reduce the clean air advantage without making the cars slow af. There has to be some way of reducing the aero advantage of being the lead car without making it a disadvantage to be out front
    Mopardh9 and gnomesayin like this.
  37. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    LewTheShoe and Westy like this.
  38. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    Ah, IMS again. Hey, NASCAR, here's an idea. How about running on tracks your cars are suited to, instead of modifying the cars to suit the tracks?
  39. LewTheShoe

    LewTheShoe Team Owner

    I for one am always intrigued by the Brickyard 400. I'm pumped up about the venues for the coming weeks, including trucks and Xfinity on two great road courses, then Indy, then Darlington. I believe current low downforce Cup cars *are* well-suited to Indy, although slashing the side force would make it even better. Indy is a drivers track... a stern test of skills as it should be. YMMV.
    DUN24 and Snappy D like this.
  40. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    FYI, they're the other way around. Lady in Black, then Indy.
    LewTheShoe likes this.

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