All-Star race experimentation receives mostly high marks

Kyle Larson is not on board despite what Jim Utter thinks.
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DUN24 said:
Alright folks. This is the part where this is SHOVED down our throat by NASCAR and their media. These people are so ******, next weekend we are going to see DW screeching about how boring the 600 is and how amazing the ARS was.


Drivers are like “it’s, interesting..” and NASCAR be like “HIGH MARKS! GREAT STUFF”




Also, I’m seeing a lot of comments elsewhere by these enlightened fans that enjoyed last nights race, and they are suggesting running it at places like Pocono, Indy, and CALIFORNIA. Have these idiots watched a race at Fontana lately? People legitimately want Talladega every weekend. It’s bananas.
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Oh my Lawd.
I bet you are one of those people that thinks Nascar would fine one of our candid and spontaneous drivers if they actually said what they think....
 
gnomesayin said:
My top priority for a race or sport is that it be a contest of skill, with the importance of 'the show' way far in the background. To me the show is the skill on display. Sometimes, often times even, true contests of skill at the top levels are runaways. I prefer this to imposing closeness and randomness on the proceedings. That's just me.

I know where you're coming from, and I bet your side wins ultimately. Prevailing winds indicate to me that this is sort of approach NASCAR needs to keep paying the bills and hold onto anything approaching the audience levels that are expected. Thankfully, there are so many forms of motorsports out there to enjoy for more purist minds, so I'm not even that bitter about it. I wish NASCAR could be more about pure competition and less about base entertainment value, but if it can't be, so be it.
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I think skill is still in play, along with strategy and good ole lady luck. Skill to me is talent and it takes talent to do what these guys do everyweek at 210 mph, 170mph or 99mph. I see the beauty in it all.
 
Spotter22 said:
lol. Cherry pick a race. How about we go back and look at a bunch more that were over when it started?
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I agree with this, there were some stinkers in the day. There will always be some regardless.

I just think it is early. Racing people are crazy and probably the best engineers in the world.
Give them this package on a routine basis and the differences between the haves and have not would probably become more pronounced. In just a handful of races.
 
DIDIT said:
I really don't get this. I enjoy racing at Martinsville at 95 mph. I enjoy racing at Atlanta at 190 mph. I enjoy racing at Darlington at 175. I enjoy racing at Charlotte at 160, 170, 180 or whatever. During the race last night I could not tell the difference this year from last year in speed on TV. I even watched some of the 2017 All Star race just to see if I noticed much difference. Nope. I have been to Charlotte many times and have seen ARCA, Truck, Xfinity and Cup cars race there. It did not matter to me that the lower series were running slower than cup and had no bearing on my level of enjoyment. Actually it never even entered my mind. I never once thought, I can't wait until Cup runs so we can really get to see some speed. Maybe NHRA is your better choice if you want to see pure speed, 300+ over there!
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I could tell during qualifying. They hugged the apron all the way around. Not enough HP to force them off the rails.
 
Seems like some here believe those who didn't enjoy it, or at least don't want to see it full-time, think we make an active effort to dislike whatever NASCAR's flavor of the week is. Couldn't be further from the truth. I think the racing has been good this year for the most part, maybe even the "purest" they've had in quite some time. I really don't get how anyone would want to see minimal braking input, cars that aren't nearly as on edge and challenging to drive, almost every week of the season in the so-called highest form of motorsport in the country.

Besides sideforce, which I thought they had been working on with the X-3 in preparation for the Gen-7, I don't really think there's a whole lot to "fix". If that puts me in the minority though, so be it. Plenty of other good series out there and more time for other hobbies couldn't hurt.
 
I like the idea behind it, I liked that it produced closer racing, but it needs tweaks and get away from using the plate, it almost seemed that cars were going to slow, maybe an increase of about 10-15 mph, I dunno, but it was much better than single file racing that we have seen from a lot of the previous ASR
 
ChexOrWrex said:
A rational explanation
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Seriously? This guy is trying to push a theory that a few years ago it was mechanical grip and not aero and throws in a few close finishes to prove his point. Those cars were extremely aero dependent. You call this a rational explanation? I guess anyone with a camera now is an expert. He doesnt know what hes talking about.
 
jws926 said:
I like the idea behind it, I liked that it produced closer racing, but it needs tweaks and get away from using the plate, it almost seemed that cars were going to slow, maybe an increase of about 10-15 mph, I dunno, but it was much better than single file racing that we have seen from a lot of the previous ASR
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yep and to think Nascar isn't going to analyze and test more is another mistake many are making, along with thinking every track will get this package. This was an experiment, it worked on paper, and like any theory it has to be tested to see what happens. Got a whole bunch running around like chicken little, the sky is falling.
 
Spotter22 said:
Seriously? This guy is trying to push a theory that a few years ago it was mechanical grip and not aero and throws in a few close finishes to prove his point. Those cars were extremely aero dependent. You call this a rational explanation? I guess anyone with a camera now is an expert. He doesnt know what hes talking about.
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Nobody except you, we know. :rolleyes:

FWIW this guy makes an explanation for a future of wide open plate racing vs racing that relies more on mechanical grip than what we have now. He literally repeats it over and over.

What you replied with was not his thesis.
 
StandOnIt said:
yep and to think Nascar isn't going to analyze and test more is another mistake many are making, along with thinking every track will get this package. This was an experiment, it worked on paper, and like any theory it has to be tested to see what happens. Got a whole bunch running around like chicken little, the sky is falling.
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You put way too much stock in the sanctioning body to get things right. If they did, stands wouldn’t be emptying and eyes on television turning away. There is a steep slippery slope ahead.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I liked it. Needs some tweaks but produced excitement. Best car won. I was just amazed at how noticable the speed difference was.
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yeah they were too conservative on the plate size I thought also. Eh they have three races in Xfinity they are going to use something similar, it will be interesting to see how those go.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Seems like some here believe those who didn't enjoy it, or at least don't want to see it full-time, think we make an active effort to dislike whatever NASCAR's flavor of the week is. Couldn't be further from the truth. I think the racing has been good this year for the most part, maybe even the "purest" they've had in quite some time. I really don't get how anyone would want to see minimal braking input, cars that aren't nearly as on edge and challenging to drive, almost every week of the season in the so-called highest form of motorsport in the country.
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Well said, and I can't stress enough that I've been generally pleased by the style of racing seen in 2018 thus far. IMO none of the areas that need improvement are addressed by the ASR package. What the lovefest for last night's race shows me, more than anything, is just how much of the fanbase and influencers within the sport disagree with that and are desperate for something entirely different. Dale Jr. himself stated on NBCSN that no alternative package could be worse than the current one. That's the prevailing sentiment, apparently; more self-loathing from a sport that has been convinced it just isn't good enough from the invention of the Chase onward.
 
gnomesayin said:
Well said, and I can't stress enough that I've been generally pleased by the style of racing seen in 2018 thus far. IMO none of the areas that need improvement are addressed by the ASR package. What the lovefest for last night's race shows me, more than anything, is just how much of the fanbase and influencers within the sport disagree with that and are desperate for something entirely different. Dale Jr. himself stated on NBCSN that no alternative package could be worse than the current one. That's the prevailing sentiment, apparently; more self-loathing from a sport that has been convinced it just isn't good enough from the invention of the Chase onward.
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Some fans are OK with putting the show before the race, some are not. It was a good show, not a pure race in the definition of driver skill.

Personally, I’d rather watch racing in a more pure form rather than foot to the floor & rely on another driver to aid your speed/momentum with a push.
 
gnomesayin said:
Well said, and I can't stress enough that I've been generally pleased by the style of racing seen in 2018 thus far. IMO none of the areas that need improvement are addressed by the ASR package. What the lovefest for last night's race shows me, more than anything, is just how much of the fanbase and influencers within the sport disagree with that and are desperate for something entirely different. Dale Jr. himself stated on NBCSN that no alternative package could be worse than the current one. That's the prevailing sentiment, apparently; more self-loathing from a sport that has been convinced it just isn't good enough from the invention of the Chase onward.
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Both of you have valid points, but this package they are designing for Indy, Pocono, and Michigan. I'm sure they are surprised that other tracks they didn't design it for are interested.
 
StandOnIt said:
Both of you have valid points, but this package they are designing for Indy, Pocono, and Michigan. I'm sure they are surprised that other tracks they didn't design it for are interested.
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It’s a new shiny toy to play with. It attracts attention. It’s a no brainer than track owners want more attention on their races compared to other tracks.
 
DIDIT said:
I really don't get this. I enjoy racing at Martinsville at 95 mph. I enjoy racing at Atlanta at 190 mph. I enjoy racing at Darlington at 175. I enjoy racing at Charlotte at 160, 170, 180 or whatever. During the race last night I could not tell the difference this year from last year in speed on TV. I even watched some of the 2017 All Star race just to see if I noticed much difference. Nope. I have been to Charlotte many times and have seen ARCA, Truck, Xfinity and Cup cars race there. It did not matter to me that the lower series were running slower than cup and had no bearing on my level of enjoyment. Actually it never even entered my mind. I never once thought, I can't wait until Cup runs so we can really get to see some speed. Maybe NHRA is your better choice if you want to see pure speed, 300+ over there!
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I enjoy Talladega and Daytona, they are some of my favorite races. Restrictor plates work there because the track is big enough to not have to lift. At Charlotte it was obvious those cars had more than what was showing. The thing that makes the mile and halves entertaining to me is its a true test of skill with braking and getting in and out of the throttle at the right times. More so than short tracks and superspeedways in my opinion. It felt like they were racing at Bristol but on Charlotte.

NHRA doesn't race on ovals sadly.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
It’s a new shiny toy to play with. It attracts attention. It’s a no brainer than track owners want more attention on their races compared to other tracks.
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now your getting it, and if the data is there that shows interest that the fans will come and fans will watch, there ya go.
 
StandOnIt said:
Both of you have valid points, but this package they are designing for Indy, Pocono, and Michigan. I'm sure they are surprised that other tracks they didn't design it for are interested.
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You do as well. I wish they would leave Indy and Pocono alone, to me they completely belong on the Cup schedule as they are today. That's because they are real driver / team performance showcases, but the masses aren't interested in that.
 
Spotter22 said:
What difference does that make? If they run wide open with a plate or with a smaller engine its still wide open and you would get the same thing you got last night.
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Why run an engine capable of 800 hp when all you're going to do is restrict it at every track except a short track?
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Nobody except you, we know. :rolleyes:

FWIW this guy makes an explanation for a future of wide open plate racing vs racing that relies more on mechanical grip than what we have now. He literally repeats it over and over.

What you replied with was not his thesis.
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Aero and Mechanical grip, you cant have one without the other.
 
StandOnIt said:
now your getting it, and if the data is there that shows interest that the fans will come and fans will watch, there ya go.
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Shiny new toys end up in the bottom of the toy chest scuffed and broken.

I’m all for bringing fans to the track, but this is nothing but marketing. My hope is that fans flock to events because the drama is there & the racing is real. The truck race is a perfect example but the promotion is not there to back it up.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Shiny new toys end up in the bottom of the toy chest scuffed and broken.

I’m all for bringing fans to the track, but this is nothing but marketing. My hope is that fans flock to events because the drama is there & the racing is real. The truck race is a perfect example but the promotion is not there to back it up.
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if you say so. somebody needed to tell those fans standing up and screaming this is a marketing plan.
 
StandOnIt said:
if you say so. somebody needed to tell those fans standing up and screaming this is a marketing plan.
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You mean the same way the masses applauded the 2016 package that was tested in 2015, and then the racing a few more races into the 2016 season got critisized by the same masses for being “boring”?

The newness of the style of racing is still a factor. We have one single result and some fans want this at every 1.5+ mile track because of an instant reaction.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
You mean the same way the masses applauded the 2016 package that was tested in 2015, and then the racing a few more races into the 2016 season got critisized by the same masses for being “boring”?

The newness of the style of racing is still a factor. We have one single result and some fans want this at every 1.5+ mile track because of an instant reaction.
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yep some really liked the racing, some hated it and some think it is a good start and more tweaking can make it even better.
 
gnomesayin said:
You do as well. I wish they would leave Indy and Pocono alone, to me they completely belong on the Cup schedule as they are today. That's because they are real driver / team performance showcases, but the masses aren't interested in that.
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If the Nascars could pass at Indy like the Indycars can I would agree with you, but that isn't the case. Last years Xfinity race as far as "organic" was much better. The faster car could pass instead of being bogged down behind on a track designed for open wheelers.
 
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