article: How NASCAR can get fans to return and retain them

StandOnIt said:
thinking that many fans didn't leave the sport after Sr. passed is nonsense.
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Well the numbers certainly don’t bear it out and most all the Dale Sr fans at the time were also Dale Jr fans and continued support of the Earnhardt name.

I have a theory that I can’t prove but I did witness to some degree. A lot of the Jeff Gordon fad fans left a few years after they realized champ #5 was not coming anytime soon.

It was the same thing with Dale Jr fad fans. Once they realized he wasn’t going to sniff a championship and go years between wins they left.

If you can find any tangible info that supports your claim I would love to see it.
 
sloggie said:
I've been doing research on Golf for my Masters thesis. I'm also an avid Golfer.

Golf saw a big decline from 2004 to about 2015, then the number of golfers taking up the sport began to match the number of golfers quitting due to old age or a lack of time. The main reason is that millennial have much lower incomes (on average) and much higher debt compared to their parent so they just can't afford to play. They also have a lot less free time than their parents did.
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I enjoy playing golf but not watching it.
 
IanMcVittie said:
Well the numbers certainly don’t bear it out and most all the Dale Sr fans at the time were also Dale Jr fans and continued support of the Earnhardt name.

I have a theory that I can’t prove but I did witness to some degree. A lot of the Jeff Gordon fad fans left a few years after they realized champ #5 was not coming anytime soon.

It was the same thing with Dale Jr fad fans. Once they realized he wasn’t going to sniff a championship and go years between wins they left.

If you can find any tangible info that supports your claim I would love to see it.
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Article from 2011 when you said Nascar attendance was still climbing. and like I said Sr's passing coincides with the COT. :p

That may be at the heart of what ails Nascar today. In 10 years, no one has been able to replace what Earnhardt brought to the sport. As Nascar enters the season-opening Daytona 500 on Sunday after another year of dipping television ratings and faltering attendance, some point to the loss of Earnhardt, even now, as the reason for the decline in interest.

“I think we’re just beginning to feel the impact of his death,” said Eddie Gossage, the president of Texas Motor Speedway and one of the top promoters in motor sports.

Much has been made of the legacy of Earnhardt’s death. Nascar is a far-safer sport as a result of his crash. Improvements, like the design of the racecars; “soft” walls at tracks; and better seats, belts and head restraints; were all put in after the accident. No driver in the top three levels of Nascar has died in a crash since Earnhardt.


https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/14/sports/autoracing/14earnhardt.html
 
StandOnIt said:
you are one to ask that. Laughable. and in the same sentence is positive some Jeff Gordon fans left. :cuckoo:
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You offer your opinion and I offer mine. You can’t prove yours and I can’t prove mine and I don’t care much about it anyway. Neither one has much to do with NASCAR’s current troubles.
 
StandOnIt said:
Article from 2011 when you said Nascar attendance was still climbing. and like I said Sr's passing coincides with the COT:p

That may be at the heart of what ails Nascar today. In 10 years, no one has been able to replace what Earnhardt brought to the sport. As Nascar enters the season-opening Daytona 500 on Sunday after another year of dipping television ratings and faltering attendance, some point to the loss of Earnhardt, even now, as the reason for the decline in interest.

“I think we’re just beginning to feel the impact of his death,” said Eddie Gossage, the president of Texas Motor Speedway and one of the top promoters in motor sports.

Much has been made of the legacy of Earnhardt’s death. Nascar is a far-safer sport as a result of his crash. Improvements, like the design of the racecars; “soft” walls at tracks; and better seats, belts and head restraints; were all put in after the accident. No driver in the top three levels of Nascar has died in a crash since Earnhardt.


https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/14/sports/autoracing/14earnhardt.html
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I never said anything about 2011. Dale died in 2001 and Nascar had very good television ratings and attendance for years after that.

I’m fine if you want to lay much of the blame for NASCAR’s current plight on Dale’s death.
 
there it is once again in black n white. The death of Sr, the COT and the safer trend of the cars and facilities coincide. Sorry you got confused about the time span, many all thru that time left the sport.
 
StandOnIt said:
there it is once again in black n white. The death of Sr, the COT and the safer trend of the cars and facilities coincide. Sorry you got confused about the time span, many all thru that time left the sport.
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Sounds good and I’ll leave you to it.
 
IanMcVittie said:
I never said anything about 2011. Dale died in 2001 and Nascar had very good television ratings and attendance for years after that.

I’m fine if you want to lay much of the blame for NASCAR’s current plight on Dale’s death. I did like hearing the opinion of the old snake oil salesman though as it made me chuckle.
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NASCAR's highest TV ratings and attendance figures were in 2005 and 2006. The COT showed up in 2007. Not a coincidence. As far as the points system goes, I think the elimination format has driven away significantly more fans than the 10 race, most points format. The numbers began a steeper decline after 2014 when that was introduced.
 
Larsonfan1995 said:
NASCAR's highest TV ratings and attendance figures were in 2005 and 2006. The COT showed up in 2007. Not a coincidence. As far as the points system goes, I think the elimination format has driven away significantly more fans than the 10 race, most points format. The numbers began a steeper decline after 2014 when that was introduced.
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I agree with you 100% as Dale had been dead for several years before NASCAR’s nosedive. If anything Nascar became more popular after Sr passed.

As far as I know the word coincide means something that happens at the same time. As you said NASCAR’s first plummet occurred after the CoT was introduced not after Dale died.
 
Imsa has added teams while their European counter part is tanking. I read that they might have to limit the number of cars at some tracks. I used to watch Imsa but most of their races are on a channel I don't have. I wonder how they are doing it.
 
sloggie said:
I've been doing research on Golf for my Masters thesis. I'm also an avid Golfer.

Golf saw a big decline from 2004 to about 2015, then the number of golfers taking up the sport began to match the number of golfers quitting due to old age or a lack of time. The main reason is that millennial have much lower incomes (on average) and much higher debt compared to their parent so they just can't afford to play. They also have a lot less free time than their parents did.
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Interesting. How has this impacted viewership?
 
StandOnIt said:
it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that is what most fans want.
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Of course.....and we all want the Super Bowl to be won with a last second touchdown. Difference--NASCAR thinks they can deliver. They can't....and then they chase their ass.
 
Zerkfitting said:
Imsa has added teams while their European counter part is tanking. I read that they might have to limit the number of cars at some tracks. I used to watch Imsa but most of their races are on a channel I don't have. I wonder how they are doing it.
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IDK what if anything Nascar is doing to shore up its dwindling fan base. They could find help in the marketplace if they were willing to engage the proper companies
 
Zerkfitting said:
Imsa has added teams while their European counter part is tanking. I read that they might have to limit the number of cars at some tracks. I used to watch Imsa but most of their races are on a channel I don't have. I wonder how they are doing it.
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FYI, IMSA moves to NBC this year. Here's the schedule, and I recall they also stream everything live on their web site (I dunno about their app).

https://autoweek.com/article/imsa/2...rtscar-champions-tv-schedule-nbc-sports-group
 
Revman said:
Of course.....and we all want the Super Bowl to be won with a last second touchdown. Difference--NASCAR thinks they can deliver. They can't....and then they chase their ass.
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If Nascar fans are waiting for edge of your seat excitement and close finishes more times than not they better pick something else.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I don't know what you meant by this either time you said it. Sr. died in 2001, the COT wasn't introduced until, what, '06 or '07. How does that coincide?
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Coincide: to correspond in nature, character, or function " … our sentiments coincided in every particular

used in the setting of events that changed Nascar in particular to fan's leaving the sport. Sr passing and many Sr only fans stopped being interested in Nascar anymore, and the other, many became disinterested when the uglier than sin COT arrived. More examples abound. abound: to be rich or well supplied :D
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I don't know what you meant by this either time you said it. Sr. died in 2001, the COT wasn't introduced until, what, '06 or '07. How does that coincide?
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New generations of car designs take at least half a decade to develop before they hit the track. It seems true if not undeniable that the philosophy of the COT and intense focus on safety were largely in reaction to Earnhardt Sr.'s death.

However, while anecdotally fans come and go from watching the sport all the time, the years following Earnhardt's death were a booming period for NASCAR. Statistically, the sport was never more popular or watched than it was from about 2003-2006. The unified TV deal and increased promotion behind it had a lot to do with that. Earnhardt's death and his son continuing the lineage drew a lot of new eyes also.
 
gnomesayin said:
New generations of car designs take at least half a decade to develop before they hit the track. It seems true if not undeniable that the philosophy of the COT and intense focus on safety were largely in reaction to Earnhardt Sr.'s death.

However, while anecdotally fans come and go from watching the sport all the time, the years following Earnhardt's death were a booming period for NASCAR. Statistically, the sport was never more popular or watched than it was from about 2003-2006. The unified TV deal and increased promotion behind it had a lot to do with that. Earnhardt's death and his son continuing the lineage drew a lot of new eyes also.
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And I believe many Sr fans went with Jr. but after Jr (sorry Jr fans) failed to be the next hard running villain like his dad many of those faded away. Nascar had peaked, and during that period here comes the ridiculous COT for many of us.
 
StandOnIt said:
Coincide: to correspond in nature, character, or function " … our sentiments coincided in every particular

used in the setting of events that changed Nascar in particular to fan's leaving the sport. Sr passing and many Sr only fans stopped being interested in Nascar anymore, and the other, many became disinterested when the uglier than sin COT arrived. More examples abound. abound: to be rich or well supplied :D
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Based on the feedback, everyone else is using the word in the sense of 'happened at the same time'.
 
it isn't that hard for most of us to grasp and it didn't take long for Nascar to replace the car. Couldn't replace the personality and popularity that Earnhardt had and what he did to build the sport.
 
StandOnIt said:
it isn't that hard for most of us to grasp and it didn't take long for Nascar to replace the car. Couldn't replace the personality and popularity that Earnhardt had and what he did to build the sport.
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After Dale Earnhardt died Nascar became more popular than ever. After the CoT was introduced the series became less popular. That is a factual statement period.
 
IanMcVittie said:
After Dale Earnhardt died Nascar became more popular than ever. After the CoT was introduced the series became less popular. That is a factual statement period.
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My point has always been that Sr's death started the safer movement into the COT. and because of his loss and the direction into the COT it was one of the many factors that led to the decline in interest in some of the fan base. An ancillary long lasting effect is that the loss of Sr and what he did to build the sport wasn't felt immediately, but like the knee jerk super safe COT they both were cause and effects of each other, and to use a simpler term, related.
 
StandOnIt said:
My point has always been that Sr's death started the safer movement into the COT. and because of his loss and the direction into the COT it was one of the many factors that led to the decline in interest in some of the fan base. An ancillary long lasting effect is that the loss of Sr and what he did to build the sport wasn't felt immediately, but like the knee jerk super safe COT they both were cause and effects of each other, and to use a simpler term, related.
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I agree that going overboard with the safety mandate was a result of Dale’s death and part of the problem was the CoT. It did irreparable damage, IMO
 
BobbyFord said:
If you can’t see it then I don’t know what to tell you.
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Don’t bother. Doubt you could explain it anyway. I just assume some people don’t like change or don’t understand the change in place. Can’t see why again? Ain’t that complicated.
 
Ford 222 said:
Don’t bother. Doubt you could explain it anyway. I just assume some people don’t like change or don’t understand the change in place. Can’t see why again? Ain’t that complicated.
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Change just for the sake of change, especially when not well thought out, is a disaster waiting to happen. "If it aint broke, don't fix it."

I have talked to a lot of former fans that just aren't into it anymore. There's a common theme among them....they all hate the playoffs. Look at what we have now, the Homestead Cup, which is the 8th variation of the playoffs since 2004. They kept throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks because they were too stupid to think anything through, rinse and repeat. Well just wait until the year when you have two contenders crash out early at Miami, see another suffer a mechanical failure, then watch as the least qualified member of the Final 4 (some guy who led 30 laps all season with only a few top 5's) coasts to a "championship" when they finish 12th.
 
I've always thought of this latest playoff idea as something that was thought up by people who don't know squat about racing. That is the only way it makes any sense. A bunch from TV that all they knew was stick n ball, and the Brian tweaked out of his mind thought they had a brilliant idea. Everybody's happy.:cuckoo: Hell nobody thought it thru enough that Johnson went out the first round with the first mess they came up with..so they made it even more complicated the next year with carrying over points from the rounds, and immunity (like survivor) if they won a race and oh by the way a regular season winner too. like huh? Nobody cares and it takes a computer to keep up with the points. I bet that goof signed a contract with TV to keep it that way, I wouldn't be surprised.
 
Okay, we all have our ideas on why people LEFT. Regardless, they're gone, ship sailed, horse out of the barn, etc.

Any suggestions on how to either get the old ones back or attract new ones? Are any major changes going to have to wait until the current TV and track contracts expire?
 
Revman said:
I agree, but you will have many here who argue that the car makes no difference. That the car culture is dead. Then, why the decline in 2007? Crickets.
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My opinion is that the CoT killed what was left of manufacturer loyalty. The cars are essentially common so you don’t get all the complaining of one make getting more spoiler or an extra opening in the grill or things of that nature. I believe there are still manufacturer fans out there but not like in the past.
 
It is only my opinion but I think that Nascar didn’t understand its surge in popularity and incorrectly assumed the floodgates would always be open. After things started tailing off they left themselves open to have sponsors and broadcasters strongly suggest changes. A lot of these changes have turned people off and not drawn in any new fans.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Okay, we all have our ideas on why people LEFT. Regardless, they're gone, ship sailed, horse out of the barn, etc.

Any suggestions on how to either get the old ones back or attract new ones? Are any major changes going to have to wait until the current TV and track contracts expire?
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Sorry I can't offer a solid suggestion to get these fans back. NASCAR is not any different than most any sports team. If the local high school football team is undefeated people come out in droves to see the game. The next season when they are win less, the stands are empty. It is just human nature to be where the "in crowd" is, unless you are a hard core fan. When we used to tailgate at Charlotte, back in the day, there were times when we would have 15 - 18 folks come. Some from a long ways away. There were always and still are about 4 of us that were the hardcore fans that have stuck it out. Those other 11 - 14 people are long gone and have moved on to something else that they enjoy. I think we all keep looking at what NASCAR changed that caused these folks to leave and the playoffs are an easy scapegoat.
 
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