Cone Rule

Team Penske said:
But JJ/Knaus played by the rules and concentrated on those races that would make them Champions. Nascar set the tracks that gave them the ability instead of having a mixture of tracks.
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Yeah, I know the 'race different' clause. I'm familiar with it and certainly expected it. ;)
 
I am not saying JJ couldn't win under other conditions. He has certainly proved himself as one of the best.
 
There is a down side. I've noticed that the leader sometimes picks the unpreferred lane with a teammate taking the preferred lane, the teammate stalls the preferred lane to let the leader in. I can see this manipulating behavior working its way through the field.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Yeah, the half season, or close to it, thing is a huge black mark on this format. I forgot about Kyle's run. That season created a lot of Chase format fans that otherwise would have continued to discredit it. Their boy would not have come close to being a champion of this sport by any other means.
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Yes, not only was Kyle's championship a sham (And NOT I'm saying that because I don't like Kyle) but Ryan Newman ALMOST won a title and he didn't even have a single top 5 until the Chase started. That tells me all I need to know about this format. In my lifetime, I don't think there have EVER been more than 3-4 drivers after 26 races that even deserved to have a chance to race for a championship, let alone 16. At this point in the season, only Martin, Kyle and Kyle have run well enough to deserve a shot at it. None of those three are even close to being a favorite of mine, but I call them as I see them.
 
So the playoffs is a gimmick while placing a cone on the track isn't. This place is entertaining to say the least. Playoffs are the best thing NASCAR have ever done while this cone idea would be the worst. Haven't seen one good reason why its needed and would rather Hamlin wreck someone on pit road than a car gain on half the field for a cone choice.

That's the part I don't like at all. Just passing cars because of a cone. No strategy involved just a choice of which side of a cone. This works for local short tracks where the drivers are not as good and need that preferred lane but NASCAR drivers shouldn't need that crutch.
 
Zerkfitting said:
There is a down side. I've noticed that the leader sometimes picks the unpreferred lane with a teammate taking the preferred lane, the teammate stalls the preferred lane to let the leader in. I can see this manipulating behavior working its way through the field.
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That's not the only downside, one lane will have a majority of the cars in it and NASCAR would have to remedy that somehow. The biggest downside though is a car can pass 8 or so cars just by a cone choice, now that's just dumb. Leave the passing to on track and pit road, not a cone where a driver and crew actually have something to do with passing another car.
 
Simple Fan said:
So the playoffs is a gimmick while placing a cone on the track isn't. This place is entertaining to say the least. Playoffs are the best thing NASCAR have ever done while this cone idea would be the worst. Haven't seen one good reason why its needed and would rather Hamlin wreck someone on pit road than a car gain on half the field for a cone choice.

That's the part I don't like at all. Just passing cars because of a cone. No strategy involved just a choice of which side of a cone. This works for local short tracks where the drivers are not as good and need that preferred lane but NASCAR drivers shouldn't need that crutch.
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I hope Paul Menard checks up on pit road and wrecks Kyle Busch at Homestead just to prove how dumb your position is.
 
Acs said:
I hope Paul Menard checks up on pit road and wrecks Kyle Busch at Homestead just to prove how dumb your position is.
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It's not dumb though, a check up on pit road is natural, a cone on the track isn't. I'd rather Kyle get wrecked on pit road 100 times than win 100 races with a cone decision.
 
I'll say if they institute this cone rule for short tracks I'll be done with them. Have no interest in seeing the best drivers in the world be handicapped by a cone.
 
Though WON'T be handicapped. Wherever they end up will be THEIR decision, not the luck of the draw. If your driver doesn't think it matters which lane he is in, then by all means choose the shorter one. The point is, it will be HIS CHOICE.
 
Simple Fan said:
It's not dumb though, a check up on pit road is natural, a cone on the track isn't. I'd rather Kyle get wrecked on pit road 100 times than win 100 races with a cone decision.
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NATURAL? For as long as race cars have made pit stops, drivers have been trying to beat everyone else off of pit road. Now we have people stopping in the middle of moving traffic and THAT's natural? I'm also guessing about the second time Kyle got torn up and it cost him a race, first HE would got ballistic, and then you probably would too.
 
Formerjackman said:
Though WON'T be handicapped. Wherever they end up will be THEIR decision, not the luck of the draw. If your driver doesn't think it matters which lane he is in, then by all means choose the shorter one. The point is, it will be HIS CHOICE.
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Which handicappes the drivers. Only driver with a choice should be the leader. These drivers are good enough to be able to deal with restarting in the non preferred line, give them a choice and it handicappes them to that line.
 
Simple Fan said:
Which handicappes the drivers. Only driver with a choice should be the leader. These drivers are good enough to be able to deal with restarting in the non preferred line, give them a choice and it handicappes them to that line.
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First off, they give the leader a choice, because it obviously MATTERS, as much as you like to think it doesn't, and it doesn't matter how much talent you have, if the car won't stick in a certain lane, and you can't get to a lane you can use because it's filled with cars, you're just screwed. Also, you and I must have VASTLY different definitions of what the word handicapped means.
 
Formerjackman said:
NATURAL? For as long as race cars have made pit stops, drivers have been trying to beat everyone else off of pit road. Now we have people stopping in the middle of moving traffic and THAT's natural? I'm also guessing about the second time Kyle got torn up and it cost him a race, first HE would got ballistic, and then you probably would too.
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And as long as they've been trying to beat others off out road there have been one or two that will play strategy on pit road like Hamlin. They do it at their own risk as we seen Denny wasn't all that successful. That's natural and has been happening for years. You go placing a cone on the track you take out alot of pit road strategy and its all on a cone decision. Hell yeah I'd be mad if Kyl got caught up in a wreck on pit road but the cone rule is not fit for NASCAR and it be embarrassing to see the best drivers in the world relegated to local short track levels.
 
Formerjackman said:
First off, they give the leader a choice, because it obviously MATTERS, as much as you like to think it doesn't, and it doesn't matter how much talent you have, if the car won't stick in a certain lane, and you can't get to a lane you can use because it's filled with cars, you're just screwed. Also, you and I must have VASTLY different definitions of what the word handicapped means.
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I understand lane choice matters, I just don't believe anyone but the leader should have that choice. I don't know what to tell you about the handicap saying, if you don't understand that this would handicap the drivers to their lane choice then I can't tell you anymore.
 
I may be ok with the cone rule, but really, how big of an issue is this? How many tracks are there where the non-preferred lane is such a death sentence that it's worth it to lose spots on pit road? You can't even say that anymore about Martinsville, thanks to goodyear. Bristol is back to a two lane track, hence why the 11 was the only one doing this. Loudon? It's down to 1 race a year next season. Michigan? That place needs serious work regardless of the lane choice thing.
 
Acs said:
I may be ok with the cone rule, but really, how big of an issue is this? How many tracks are there where the non-preferred lane is such a death sentence that it's worth it to lose spots on pit road? You can't even say that anymore about Martinsville, thanks to goodyear. Bristol is back to a two lane track, hence why the 11 was the only one doing this. Loudon? It's down to 1 race a year next season. Michigan? That place needs serious work regardless of the lane choice thing.
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Agreed, and Hamlin's antics on pit road shouldn't be enough to warrant a rule change of this magnitude.
 
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Simple Fan said:
Agreed, and Hamlin's antics on pit road shouldn't be enough to warrant a rule change of this magnitude.
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I for one was concerned about this LAST year when I started really noticing it. And even if the drivers weren't trying to game the system coming off pit road, you still have the issue of the competitive disadvantage of certain lanes.
 
Acs said:
I may be ok with the cone rule, but really, how big of an issue is this? How many tracks are there where the non-preferred lane is such a death sentence that it's worth it to lose spots on pit road? You can't even say that anymore about Martinsville, thanks to goodyear. Bristol is back to a two lane track, hence why the 11 was the only one doing this. Loudon? It's down to 1 race a year next season. Michigan? That place needs serious work regardless of the lane choice thing.
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Bristol might be a two lane track again, but NOBODY wanted to restart in the lower lane Saturday night. You made some good points about the tracks, but that requires a massive outlay of money and they STILL might get it wrong. The cone rule doesn't cost a dime to implement. If we rely on Goodyear to come up with the optimum tire for every track, we will all likely be dead before that happens, and if anything changes with the cars or the track gets repaved, you're back to square one. At the tracks where there IS no lane advantage, drivers will just take the track position they earned, so nothing would change there. I just don't see the cone rule as anything different than choosing between four tires, two tires, no tires or not pitting at all.
 
Formerjackman said:
I for one was concerned about this LAST year when I started really noticing it. And even if the drivers weren't trying to game the system coming off pit road, you still have the issue of the competitive disadvantage of certain lanes.
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Which is the tracks fault. Plenty of other things can be done than adding a cone to jumble up the field. Not a fan of the VHT either but it works and its better than a cone rule.
 
Formerjackman said:
I just don't see the cone rule as anything different than choosing between four tires, two tires, no tires or not pitting at all.
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It is though, it takes a crew to have a quick pitstop and gain position, the cone rule is just a decision. I'd rather see actual strategy than picking the light side of a cone.
 
Simple Fan said:
It is though, it takes a crew to have a quick pitstop and gain position, the cone rule is just a decision. I'd rather see actual strategy than picking the light side of a cone.
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Not pitting is just a decision too, are you just as upset about 20th place cars jumping into the lead for that?
 
Acs said:
Not pitting is just a decision too, are you just as upset about 20th place cars jumping into the lead for that?
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No because its s decision that not everyone is going to make and is a huge risk. A cone is left or right those are your only two options.
 
Simple Fan said:
Which is the tracks fault. Plenty of other things can be done than adding a cone to jumble up the field. Not a fan of the VHT either but it works and its better than a cone rule.
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The VHT helps the actual racing. I've not much evidence that does much of anything to help the restarts.
 
Formerjackman said:
The VHT helps the actual racing. I've not much evidence that does much of anything to help the restarts.
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Restarts a part of racing. Now once that VHT wears off its not much help at all but I've seen plenty of restarts this year with the VHT that has helped between all three series.
 
Seems to me that our resident KDB fans are the most vocal against this. I wonder why?

I'm all for trying this.
 
kk5fan said:
Seems to me that our resident KDB fans are the most vocal against this. I wonder why?

I'm all for trying this.
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Who I'm a fan of has nothing to do with my opinion of the rule. Its something not needed in NASCAR at all. It works for a local short track but NASCAR is too big and the drivers are too good for this type of thing. Its a challenge if a lane is not the preferred one and you restart in it, I'm against making it easier on the drivers Kyle included and that is what a cone rule does. Give the leader a choice as he's earned it but everyone else should fall in line.
 
Its all fun and games until someone hits the brakes on pit road gets spun around and kills a crew member, we don't need more accidents in the pits.
 
kkfan91 said:
Its all fun and games until someone hits the brakes on pit road gets spun around and kills a crew member, we don't need more accidents in the pits.
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A cone wouldn't stop accidents on pit road nor was Hamlin anywhere close to a crew member. This cone only makes racing easier for the drivers which isn't right.
 
What we saw Saturday night was basically one car trying these shenanigans. What's going to happen when it's 8-10 cars trying to do it all at the same time? Is it fair to drivers that just want to get off pit road and they are stuck behind these cars all trying NOT to go?
 
Formerjackman said:
What we saw Saturday night was basically one car trying these shenanigans. What's going to happen when it's 8-10 cars trying to do it all at the same time? Is it fair to drivers that just want to get off pit road and they are stuck behind these cars all trying NOT to go?
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If Denny had been successful than that might be a problem but its not. Denny isn't the first to do it either and its never been a problem before. I believe alot have created a problem out of nothing and falsely believe a cone would fix it when really all the cone does is jumble up the field and cause more cautions on track with very little strategy being played.
 
Simple Fan said:
Playoffs are the best thing NASCAR have ever done
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That statement is probably a bit hyperbolic, but I think I will actually enjoy the playoffs this year since advantages can be earned in the regular season and carried through the playoffs. The 2014-2016 format was hot garbage, I'm glad NASCAR recognized its many flaws and corrected most of them for this year.
 
Seems pretty excellent to me. Just another strategy play to add into the mix, drivers don't get punished for starting ahead of others.
 
Formerjackman said:
I for one was concerned about this LAST year when I started really noticing it. And even if the drivers weren't trying to game the system coming off pit road, you still have the issue of the competitive disadvantage of certain lanes.
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^This here
A competitive disadvantage should not go to the P2 car that beat the P3 car out of the pits. P2 should have the lane choice he earned.
 
NASCAR needs to do something in my opinion to stop guys for break checking so blatantly on pit road. Pocono, Indy, Michigan, Bristol have all been tracks this year where guys have had significant radio communication in regards to the line they prefer to restart in that I myself have listened to. I'm sure there have been more. Obviously it is a racetrack issue when it comes to one lane tracks, but that then becomes a NASCAR issue when it becomes a competition issue, which is exactly what they are approaching. Denny stacked up the two cars behind him and almost caused them to tear each other up. There should be a penalty for that. There is no discernible difference from that and break checking a guy during the pace lap or on pit road after the race. I don't know what NASCAR can do unless it is mandate a minimum pit road speed as well? The cone may not be the answer. It is however, an idea and NASCAR needs to look into it.
 
NASCAR Apologist said:
Seems pretty excellent to me. Just another strategy play to add into the mix, drivers don't get punished for starting ahead of others.
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I fail to see how this adds strategy, it just picking a side and more than likely most will pick the preferred line. It's just spoiling the drivers and making the jobs easier.
 
clarkfn2284 said:
The cone may not be the answer. It is however, an idea and NASCAR needs to look into it.
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Disagree as I don't think this incident with Hamlin is a big deal and something that's been going on for years with out any problems. There is really nothing to look into at all. Hamlin did get a penalty as he didn't get his desired restart position and lost spots, all the punishment he needs.
 
Also, refusing to call the cone strategy is factually wrong by definition of the word. You do not have to like the idea, but let's not lose all ability to be objective to it. I wouldn't mind seeing it in the lower levels to see if it provides for a better race experience in general. I for one could not care less if the drivers like it or not. As a consumer of the sport, I care about if it has a positive effect on my viewing the race. It does nothing to make the race result seem hollow or confuse the process. Everything is electronically scored so there should literally be no confusion. I hear the argument that the leader should not have to deal with a guy from 15th getting up next to him when he has had the better car all weekend, but if that is the case and the car really is better, plus you have the preferred line and you get bat, then that falls on you.
 
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