Cup RACE thread --- Richmond

Jorge De Guzman said:
Hot take but If G-W-C was done away with, only racing to the advertised distance none of this would be happening to the extent that it has been the last few years. The GWC Overtime brings out the most carnage imo, it adds to the desperation for some of these guys.
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Problem is most want to see a finish, I remember the pre GWC days well. They sucked.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Hot take but If G-W-C was done away with, only racing to the advertised distance none of this would be happening to the extent that it has been the last few years. The GWC Overtime brings out the most carnage imo, it adds to the desperation for some of these guys.
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This is true. We get the same exact winner, but way less controversial. Like that’s the ****** thing about it, Austin had the car to beat, it’s not like he bad a bad car and used the GWC as away to win, he was driving away with it and rightfully would have won the race.
 
Brentford said:
I agree, but unfortunately NASCAR is so inconsistent with their calls. So just because they might not take this win away doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t take the win away the next time it happens.
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They are gonna nail the 3 on what he did to Hamlin, not Logano just lie they have all year with RR hits
 
Spotter22 said:
Problem is most want to see a finish, I remember the pre GWC days well. They sucked.
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This is also true. It’s a double edged sword if you ask me. On one hand, you get to see a good finish sometimes because of it, on the other hand sometimes you get BS like what happened here. Neither one is the perfect solution
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I remember them too, but I didn’t have a problem with finishing under caution.
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Last night was a really good race until lap 397 or something.

I have never been a big fan of any three main drivers involved in the late race mess. But Dillion had a great long run car and it was fun watching the coming and going and watching him methodically working his up to take the lead. He drove a really great race until the last lap crap.

That's the kind of racing that keeps me interested, it is like watching some type of art or great story being told in real time.

In a just world there would been no last lap reset to settle it, he proved he deserved to win up to that point.

But according to the rules Lagano outdid him with a clean restart and Dillion had no right to pull off that kind of BS. I think he violated a code and trust and will catch a lot of disrespect for the moment for the rest of career. He earned a lot of future pain last night imo
 
Joey 🤣
“[Dillon] had no intentions to race,” Logano told a group of reporters after the race. “I beat him fair and square on the restart and he pulls a chicken [expletive] move. He’s a piece of crap. He sucks. He’s sucked his whole career and now he’s going to be in the playoffs. Good for him, I guess.”
 
GWC finishes are fine with me as I hate finishing under yellow. What’s annoying is that these professionals lose all skill/respect and think they can drive from 12th to 1st in two laps. I mean, just take what your car will give you and focus on what you need to do better for next week so you can actually start up front for next weeks GWC. They go from looking like professional stock car drivers to looking like what you see at your local short track.
 
ahhculdee said:
He has done what Austin has done so many times. Taking out other drivers he considers friends. I'm suprised another driver didn't call him and Joey out on their BS.
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What the hell even is this nonsense?

Denny Hamlin or Logano havs never deliberately wrecked someone from 4 car lengths back AND right hook someone to win where it wasn't retaliation.

This was the most egregious thing we've seen in 30 years. We, as a fan base have to think more critically than this crap.
 
StandOnIt said:
ah, B.S. Insulting the fans of the most popular racing sport in the country isn't going to fly very far.
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Not insulting any fans, unless they're snowflakes. Nothing wrong with rednecks, and I am one. My comment is about whether NASCAR will throw in the towel on all of their marketing efforts for the past at least 20 years, or go back to their former limited niche.
 
jaqua19 said:
What the hell even is this nonsense?

Denny Hamlin or Logano havs never deliberately wrecked someone from 4 car lengths back AND right hook someone to win where it wasn't retaliation.

This was the most egregious thing we've seen in 30 years. We, as a fan base have to think more critically than this crap.
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No doubt Dillon corn holed Logano. But Hamlin hooked himself. Dillon held his line and Hamlin came up.
The over head shows it clearly. There is a bit of blabbing on this clip before they show it, but it is a plain as day.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
Sometimes "wow" is all I can say. I understand some people liked that and will defend it but for me that was just **** racing and a product of "win and you're in." I completely understand why the 3 did it but just like with Chase and Suarez a few weeks ago at Chicago - There is a difference between the bump and run and just driving through someone. Maybe when a driver gets seriously hurt NASCAR will stop this "win and you're in" BS and stop trying to attract the attention of fans that won't pay attention for more than 5 minutes anyway.

All that said, where did the speed from the 3 car come from? I knew they could improve from how bad they have been but I am not sure I have ever seen a car run THAT bad for 2/3 of a season and then just show up and have that kind of speed. He was the ONLY chevy to have race winning speed and outran his teammate and the likes of HMS by a lot. If anyone tried to say they saw that coming out of the 3 I will call BS all day.

Other takeaways - Cliff Daniels is the BEST crew chief in NASCAR right now and here's why - He calls the race based on what his driver has - not what the race winning strategy will be. He saw right away that the 5 did not have the speed to drive through the pack and called a strategy that said "let's do what they are not." It really did not end of working out but I still loved it. I get so frustrated with AG because he seems to try to keep Chase on what he thinks the race winning strategy will be - even if they don't have a winning car. Last night was a perfect example - I did not understand their strategy at all as they seemed to be in between the 1 stop per stage and 2 stop per stage strategy. They were always the last car to come in of those stopping twice and lost tons of track position to guys on new tires because of it and it did not really work out on the other end. I think if AG is more aggressive and committed to one of the 2 strategies then Chase - who had a decent at best car - would have kept his track position all night and been in a better spot at the end.

The option tires - I guess I like it and I can't believe that some teams not in a position to win did not use their last set on the final 50 lap +/- run because they fell off at about 30-35 laps. I mean why not try something and just see what happens? If you're borderline top ten then why not? Overall though, I liked that if you were mired in traffic you had an option (no pun intended) to try to gain some track position.

Last but not least - I have said it all year and will keep saying it - On flat short tracks (except maybe Martinsville which is a different animal) the Chevys are bringing a knife to a gun fight. Yes - The 3 was puzzlingly the best car - especially at the end - which shows the Chevys CAN compete but for whatever reason they are not. HMS was very mid. Chase had a good qualifying run and seemed to have decent long run speed but poor strategy. The 5 and the 24 seemed to be OK but mired in traffic and unable to pas most of the race. The 48 was MIA all night from what I saw. They better figure something out before Phoenix.
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Yeah, listening to the radio and Larson all year, their motto has been execution. As a driver and race team, let's maximize our day, whatever that looks like.

Larson has made far fewer mistakes this year. After the 600, he did string together a few bad weeks in a row, Iowa (which was gonna be a win) and Chicago (probably a top 4 finish).

I was on Daniel's ass yesterday because I just didn't see that stage 2 strategy working out, and I didn't see the necessity of it. I turned out to be right for that stage, and even still, Cliff found a way to get them a good finish.

Early on, Larson was pretty unsure about what to request in terms of changes and balance and Cliff basically made a decision to adjust the car to help with early run turn. Larson was able to drive into p10 early in stage 2, taking advantage of that. Then, Cliff made the 1 stop call to gain further track position, presumably to get some stage points. It didn't work out and he ended the stage in p14. A net negative.

Cliff made the car better for one run in stage 3, and Larson was able to get back up to p12. Then, Cliff called Larson in to start the pit cycle, knowing that their weakness was short run speed in traffic. As a result, he got a clean pit entry/exit, and about 2 lap fresher tires, and was able to run a significant portion of the "weaker" part of his run in clean air. It netted him out about 7 spots ahead of where he was running and ultimately lead to a top 10 finish.

I thought the stage 2 mistake more or less ended the day as a good points day, but they still managed to defend the points lead with a 7th place finish with probably a 12th place car.

Considering how well Reddick ran, and how Elliott was able to accumulate 6 stage points, it was a good race.

Larson had zero useful feedback all race. It was bad. Cliff made a decision that minimized their car's weakness. It was great
 
Spotter22 said:
Yeah, I'm tired of "they are forcing us to do it" crap. No they aren't, its the 3 who chose to do it and NASCAR should react, harshly. I've got a good Friend on that Team, hell he sent me the Pic of him driving the Trophy back to RCR and this will effect him and I hate it for him.
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This is my sentiment as well. They're grown as adults and are responsible for the decisions they make in the moment..

There's A LOT of drivers who wouldn't have made that decision last night.
 
StandOnIt said:
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People should have been mad about that. What Rudd did there is what Earnhardt built a career and legacy out of and I don't recall a win being taken from him like it should have at Bristol with Terry Laboante. What Rudd did there and what Dilion did last night are not even on the same planet and the win should be taken away.
 
Spotter22 said:
Problem is most want to see a finish, I remember the pre GWC days well. They sucked.
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Frankly I think this way sucks more. We saw a finish last night and people hated that too. I'm just not sure what can be done at this point to curb this type of racing when the inevitable late race caution comes out.
 
jaqua19 said:
What's damning is the radio chatter of "wreck him"

The SMT data will show if Dillon hooked him. We await Denny's podcast, he'll be looking at it.
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I wouldn't believe a thing Hamlin says lol. But knock yourself out. If you can't see from the clip that Hamlin came up you will grasp at any straw. Two peas in a pod lol.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
I'm just not sure what can be done at this point to curb this type of racing when the inevitable late race caution comes out.
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How about severe penalties for the kind of egregious behaviour we saw yesterday?

Example: move the 3 back to the 38th finishing position and levy a $50,000 fine. Get people’s attention.
 
StandOnIt said:
No doubt Dillon corn holed Logano. But Hamlin hooked himself. Dillon held his line and Hamlin came up.
The over head shows it clearly. There is a bit of blabbing on this clip before they show it, but it is a plain as day.
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Hamlin did himself in..
 
aunty dive said:
How about severe penalties for the kind of egregious behaviour we saw yesterday?

Example: move the 3 back to the 38th finishing position and levy a $50,000 fine. Get people’s attention.
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That would really get folks attention. Real quick.
 
Now it's the oh, it's the GWC's fault lol. It's racing people, it would happen GWC or not. People would be on Nascar's ass to not count caution laps if they quit doing GWC's
 
has Dillon ever won a race where he did no wreck someone.....
 
jaqua19 said:
Yeah. I don't think it's complicated. Drivers will stop doing this if they know they'll get a major penalty for it.
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Not going to get a "race control" out of Nascar. They aren't going to call balls and strikes and micro manage their races. They took a race away for rough driving in 91. They haven't since.
 
Doc Austin said:
If you think this was crazy, wait until the playoffs.
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This is what NASCAR wants. They let Carson Hocevar get away with dumping Corey Heim last fall. They were fine with Joey Logano spinning Matt Kenseth at Kansas in 2015. They were fine with Kevin Harvick dumping Kyle Busch in 2020. They were fine with Ryan Newman putting Kyle Larson in the fence in 2014.

IMO, the four drivers that remain standing when they get to Avondale will have too much respect for each other to engage in 🐔💩 shenanigans like what we saw last night.
 
…and what if they just impose a fine and let Dillon keep the win?
It will be interesting to see how NASCAR responds.
 
Spotter22 said:
Problem is most want to see a finish, I remember the pre GWC days well. They sucked.
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There was a stretch of races in 2004 where it seemed like every other race was ending under caution.

Now we just have every single race coming down to shenanigans in the final two laps because, somehow, someway, every race comes down to overtime.
 
BobbyFord said:
…and what if they just impose a fine and let Dillon keep the win?
It will be interesting to see how NASCAR responds.
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I'd say a fine, take away points, or they sit him out one race, or they do nothing are the choices. They won't kill the Cinderella playoff story and knock him out of the playoffs by taking his win away.
 
StandOnIt said:
I'd say a fine, or they sit him out one race, or do nothing are the choices. They won't kill the Cinderella playoff story and knock him out of the playoffs by taking his win away.
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If they aren’t going to take the win away or do anything to affect his playoff contention, there really isn’t a point in doing anything. Purposely wreck someone, earn a spot in the playoffs AND earn a week of vacation. Sounds like a win/win for Dillon.
 
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