Deegan update

KTMLew01 said:
You know that's not my point. Larson gets rides due to talent. If ANY of the female drivers mentioned in this thread looked like they had similar talent, teams would be chasing them to get them in their cars. Not their talent at hanging bodies or building shocks. DRIVING TALENT.
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I believe the point here is that understanding the car underneath you helps to make driving style adjustments because you can better tune your wheel and pedal inputs to the dynamics of the car.

Larson is one of the few that just has an unreal amount of raw talent and feel without needing to even know that. But it's common across all disciplines of professional driving to at least understand the chassis you're in. Pro drivers aren't turning wrenches these days, but being in the shop and getting your feet wet from a technical standpoint is not a bad thing, and other drivers do that. Not all of them, but a portion of them do and find it to help.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Who pays? Plus I don't believe either of those series race to same tire as truck. Makes a huge difference.
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If a different tire meant that seat time with that tire was completely invaluable to building skills, then people would just start straight in the Cup Series I guess...

Think about racecraft. That's what it's about. More reps racing around other cars, threading with a field, making decisions, calculating risk versus reward in how hard you push at the start of a run versus the end, driving on offense and driving on defense, etc. There's a ton to be learned even if not for the same tire.
 
cheesepuffs said:
If a different tire meant that seat time with that tire was completely invaluable to building skills, then people would just start straight in the Cup Series I guess...

Think about racecraft. That's what it's about. More reps racing around other cars, threading with a field, making decisions, calculating risk versus reward in how hard you push at the start of a run versus the end, driving on offense and driving on defense, etc. There's a ton to be learned even if not for the same tire.
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Kez said Thursday he was running the full six-race SRX season because he wasn't getting enough seat time overall.
 
The Nature Boy said:
I actually think Deegan would benefit from an Xfinity ride. Given where she runs in Trucks, she won't learn anything new. At least the back markers in Xfinity aren't complete idiots.
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She would get eaten alive in Xfinity. The talent pool in Trucks right now is not that deep. The talent pool in Xfinity is significant deeper, with Hill, John Hunter, Custer, even Riley, Sheldon Creed, Hemric and so on. It's a far gap from Cup, but way better than Trucks. She isn't going to learn anything from Justin Allgaier when she's three-quarters of a lap behind him.
 
Deegan didn't just get to where she was at random, she got to be such a hyped talent because her father is a legend in the world of motocross (especially freestyle) and was able to help her obtain personal sponsorships before she was even in K&N.

As for the larger question of whether or not NASCAR should help fund drivers to improve diversity: currently the entire ladder system for NASCAR is a pay-for-play enterprise. Don't make me post a link of Defending Cup Champion Joey Logano talking about how he couldn't get a Truck Series ride to run in this year because he wasn't able to bring money and couldn't find any to make you look foolish. So unless you want to see a future Cup series consisting exclusively of people who's parents are multimillionaires that bring a check, you might find it in your best interests that NASCAR provides support to anyone who that isn't a description of.
 
I agree with @AndyMarquisLive that CARS would be fantastic for her. The thing is, I believe her camp is in a tough position because if she drops "down" a rung between truck races and she gets totally destroyed over and over again in a late model, then her stock will fall and any dream of an Xfinity ride will probably disappear. But in just trucks she can still play that card of, "I'm not learning enough in this series because it's a circus", which is the type of thing that her and her father had said about ARCA on their podcast back at that time too. If she blames the series for not being a good enough channel for development then they have a case to move up into "real" racing. If you move down into the CARS Tour, which is a proven development series, and you get shown up, then the justification to move up the ladder is a tougher sell.

I'm curious to see how Ford handles it now that she's in a contract year. I think @Allenbaba had said on here that Ford was still totally hitched to her earlier this year, but I wonder how long of a rope she has now after this season has kind of gone cold.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Deegan didn't just get to where she was at random, she got to be such a hyped talent because her father is a legend in the world of motocross (especially freestyle) and was able to help her obtain personal sponsorships before she was even in K&N.

As for the larger question of whether or not NASCAR should help fund drivers to improve diversity: currently the entire ladder system for NASCAR is a pay-for-play enterprise. Don't make me post a link of Defending Cup Champion Joey Logano talking about how he couldn't get a Truck Series ride to run in this year because he wasn't able to bring money and couldn't find any to make you look foolish. So unless you want to see a future Cup series consisting exclusively of people who's parents are multimillionaires that bring a check, you might find it in your best interests that NASCAR provides support to anyone who that isn't a description of.
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So NASCAR themselves is supposed to fund the driving careers of like 90% of people that want to race but don't have the money to climb the ladder all the way up? That's impossible.

Unfortunately what you've described has basically already happened (with a few exceptions that are mostly all signed to SHR now) and it's irreversible unless the cost of car ownership in Cup gets cut down dramatically. If the teams were profitable then we'd see a renewed push for talent over sponsor money. But as it stands, teams can't thrive without drivers bringing a check for the most part.
 
cheesepuffs said:
I agree with @AndyMarquisLive that CARS would be fantastic for her. The thing is, I believe her camp is in a tough position because if she drops "down" a rung between truck races and she gets totally destroyed over and over again in a late model, then her stock will fall and any dream of an Xfinity ride will probably disappear. But in just trucks she can still play that card of, "I'm not learning enough in this series because it's a circus", which is the type of thing that her and her father had said about ARCA on their podcast back at that time too. If she blames the series for not being a good enough channel for development then they have a case to move up into "real" racing. If you move down into the CARS Tour, which is a proven development series, and you get shown up, then the justification to move up the ladder is a tougher sell.

I'm curious to see how Ford handles it now that she's in a contract year. I think @Allenbaba had said on here that Ford was still totally hitched to her earlier this year, but I wonder how long of a rope she has now after this season has kind of gone cold.
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Deegan could race any number of things. The number of NASCAR fans aware as to who shows up to Millbridge on a Wednesday night, much less how they perform, is next to nothing. How many people here care about Ross Chastain running a big block modified at Utica-Rome soon? Exactly. CARS Tour provides reps but also comes with expenses given that it's pavement racing. Her tire bill will be significant, and the win money frankly not all that compared to the options in dirt.
 
cheesepuffs said:
So NASCAR themselves is supposed to fund the driving careers of like 90% of people that want to race but don't have the money to climb the ladder all the way up? That's impossible.
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I didn't say that, so I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Don't take it so personal and serious. We're just bench racing here.
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Alright. Well then, I appreciate NASCAR offering material support to some prospects for any reasons so that the field isn't all Tanner Grays. That is regardless of how attractive I find Tanner's mom.
 
cheesepuffs said:
I agree with @AndyMarquisLive that CARS would be fantastic for her. The thing is, I believe her camp is in a tough position because if she drops "down" a rung between truck races and she gets totally destroyed over and over again in a late model, then her stock will fall and any dream of an Xfinity ride will probably disappear. But in just trucks she can still play that card of, "I'm not learning enough in this series because it's a circus", which is the type of thing that her and her father had said about ARCA on their podcast back at that time too. If she blames the series for not being a good enough channel for development then they have a case to move up into "real" racing. If you move down into the CARS Tour, which is a proven development series, and you get shown up, then the justification to move up the ladder is a tougher sell.

I'm curious to see how Ford handles it now that she's in a contract year. I think @Allenbaba had said on here that Ford was still totally hitched to her earlier this year, but I wonder how long of a rope she has now after this season has kind of gone cold.
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I don’t agree about her stock falling if she gets destroyed in CARS Tour. The competition there is better than Trucks. Larson getting destroyed at Caraway proved that.
 
cheesepuffs said:
I agree with @AndyMarquisLive that CARS would be fantastic for her. The thing is, I believe her camp is in a tough position because if she drops "down" a rung between truck races and she gets totally destroyed over and over again in a late model, then her stock will fall and any dream of an Xfinity ride will probably disappear. But in just trucks she can still play that card of, "I'm not learning enough in this series because it's a circus", which is the type of thing that her and her father had said about ARCA on their podcast back at that time too. If she blames the series for not being a good enough channel for development then they have a case to move up into "real" racing. If you move down into the CARS Tour, which is a proven development series, and you get shown up, then the justification to move up the ladder is a tougher sell.

I'm curious to see how Ford handles it now that she's in a contract year. I think @Allenbaba had said on here that Ford was still totally hitched to her earlier this year, but I wonder how long of a rope she has now after this season has kind of gone cold.
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To be totally clear, the Ford marketing and C-suite types were hitched to her. The Ford racing people wanted out. I don't know where any of those relationships stand today, this is what I knew from the end of last season. I haven't really spoken to anyone at Ford about her since.
 
My brother and I were talking about the Deegan/Patrick comparison today. We agreed that it comes down to girls and women.
Women always do better than girls.
 
Being in SRX will keep her relevant and probably get her another year in NASCAR.

But, truthfully, it’s time for everyone who wants to see a woman succeed to move on to Toni Breidinger. Toni has shown tremendous improvement this year, while Hailie is regressing badly.
 
BobbyFord said:
My brother and I were talking about the Deegan/Patrick comparison today. We agreed that it comes down to girls and women.
Women always do better than girls.
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Hailie Deegan is a gimmick and she is fine with that. And her fans are fine with that.

Meanwhile, Toni Breidinger wants to race and wants to improve. Which is why she runs Trucks, ARCA, Late Models and anything else she can.
 
Does it look like Toni has a line on a full time truck ride for next year? 3 races a year won’t get her there.

And I am one who thinks Deegan might do better at the next level in a car. I am starting to agree that she’s not taking it seriously in trucks but that may be a combo of fit and maturity. I’d say give her 1 year in Xfinity and she collects more top 15s than on trucks. Could be wrong but I’d bet people would be surprised. (Course some will hate her even if she got a couple wins cuz they are as extreme as unconditional supporters)

Still think she’d also improve if her dad took away her social media accounts and she stopped playing with her BF half the week. She may not need to be holding a wrench in the garage but I would bet she could be more focused and clock in more practice time. Just a hunch. I don’t see someone who can’t drive…I see someone who doesn’t fully have their head in the game.
 
RaceCritter said:
I’d say give her 1 year in Xfinity and she collects more top 15s than on trucks. Could be wrong but I’d bet people would be surprised.
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The narratives about the Truck Series being the problem for Deegan are drying up. She's in a ThorSport truck, and more resources are being put into her than the other trucks. Yet her results have not improved at all.

She'd get more top-15s for one reason only: The disparity between the haves and have-nots. Lawless Alan in the Xfinity Series in a mid-tier or backmarker ride wouldn't be able to run the same pace as Hailie Deegan in a Stewart-Haas Xfinity car.

Even then, she'd be in the 13th-17th range.

RaceCritter said:
(Course some will hate her even if she got a couple wins cuz they are as extreme as unconditional supporters)
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And, at this point, this is extremely unlikely.

Most of us wanted to see her win. But she's running where her talent level allows her to run.
 
Let's promote her, she will do better is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You have to earn a promotion to a higher series, not get one because you suck. But that is the millennials attitude, give me stuff I haven't earned.
 
Daytripper said:
Let's promote her, she will do better is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You have to earn a promotion to a higher series, not get one because you suck. But that is the millennials attitude, give me stuff I haven't earned.
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The logic behind moving her up makes sense, especially if you're in her camp. Because of the equipment disparity alone, her results in Xfinity will be better on paper and it probably buys her another 2-3 years.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The logic behind moving her up makes sense, especially if you're in her camp. Because of the equipment disparity alone, her results in Xfinity will be better on paper and it probably buys her another 2-3 years.
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I disagree with the logic making sense to move her up. The logical way to get promoted is to do good. She has not done that.
 
Daytripper said:
Let's promote her, she will do better is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You have to earn a promotion to a higher series, not get one because you suck. But that is the millennials attitude, give me stuff I haven't earned.
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Correction: Gen Z.

Millennials are old now.
 
Daytripper said:
Let's promote her, she will do better is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You have to earn a promotion to a higher series, not get one because you suck. But that is the millennials attitude, give me stuff I haven't earned.
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Millennials and Zoomers aren't the ones making the actual decisions, so I'm gonna have to ascribe the blame with those who are actually responsible. You know, team owners and managers that are predominantly much older than 40. Racing performance basically doesn't matter to them for Xfinity or Truck racing.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Millennials and Zoomers aren't the ones making the actual decisions, so I'm gonna have to ascribe the blame with those who are actually responsible. You know, team owners and managers that are predominantly much older than 40. Racing performance basically doesn't matter to them for Xfinity or Truck racing.
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Sponsors pay the bills. She' bring them the bucks. When that stops it's off to only fans.
 
zevious said:
This thread reminds me of this quote:

"If my critics saw me walking over the Thames they would say it was because I couldn't swim." - Margaret Thatcher
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Makes no sense here. I’m pretty sure most, if not all of us Deegan critics WANT her to succeed. It would be the best thing for the sport since the 79 Daytona 500 if she won a cup race. We’re just saying that she’s miles behind her teammates and hasn’t improved a bit in 3 years. That’s indisputable.
 
I remember like it was yesterday the first time I saw her dad do MotoX on MTV. They let the riders pick the music and Brian opted for California death metal act Deeds of Flesh. I think Rob Zombie was providing color commentary too. It was the mid 90s and things like that happened. So I don't have all these massive negative expectations of Hailie. If she were good, it would resonate with me. The problem as I see it is that by the time she won a race in the K&N series, the value of winning what was once a Winston West event had evaporated due to the general collapse of the NASCAR ladder. What she won in effectively does not exist now: it's an offshoot of ARCA with lousy car counts. So it is what it is with her. Neither good nor necessarily bad, just indifferent. Objectively speaking, Nelson Piquet Jr. was probably a better stock car driver than her.
 
hmmm298 said:
So we’re Sam Hornish and Robert Presley
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Sam Hornish won 19 Indycar races including an Indy 500 and series titles and 5 Busch/Xfinity/whatever races. Robert Pressley was an outstanding late model driver who claims 150 race wins there in addition to 10 Busch/Xfinity/whatever races and 2 Truck races. Hailie Deegan has won, according to DriverDB, 3 professional auto races. All were in the K&N West Series: none of the races had even 20 competitors. Races she won had field sizes of 14, 15, and 19 cars. The most recognizable names she beat were future Indy NXT washout Jagger Jones and Derek Kraus. Kraus was better than her in every series both of them competed in, but Kraus is not an attractive female with a personal sponsor and as such he's racing one-offs and Hailie Deegan is looking at moving up to Cup to finish 32nd every week.
 
aunty dive said:
Mebbe she’ll sneak into the top 10 at Richmond.

🤪
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So here ya are, a big Toyota guy, plenty of them on this thread wanking on a driver in the Truck series, has to be a female also et all for this much attention. Not buying the clown show that it is all about her/she not winning, there have been tons of drivers with mediocre records all over the place and the only two I know about going on for page after page are Danica and Halie.
For instance, since 08, the JGR yotas all four of them, have won a total of two Cups in 15 years. The two cups they won? The winner of both of those Cups is driving for another manufacturer now. Talk about mediocre.

But here they are wanking on a female Truck driver, 47 pages going for 50 saying the same thing over and over so they can hear their heads rattle. Lol go 4 50.
 
I think it’s pretty well established that I’m supportive of female race car drivers.

My current favorites are all reasonably competitive at their current level. “Competitive“ to me means determination, tenacity, top 10 and top 5 finishes and an occasional win while racing against talented, properly funded competitors of both sexes.

To date, Ms. Deegan has performed poorly in a results-oriented business. Her financial supporters may choose to continue, as is their right. They all know far more about brand marketing than I do.
 
aunty dive said:
I think it’s pretty well established that I’m supportive of female race car drivers.

My current favorites are all reasonably competitive at their current level. “Competitive“ to me means determination, tenacity, top 10 and top 5 finishes and an occasional win while racing against talented, properly funded competitors of both sexes.

To date, Ms. Deegan has performed poorly in a results-oriented business. Her financial supporters may choose to continue, as is their right. They all know far more about brand marketing than I do.
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are we there yet to 50?
 
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