Illegal communication between teams?

VaDirt said:
nascarcasm ‏@nascarcasm 7m
Gilliland: "I deny that I helped Penske get #22 into the Chase in exchange for a favor. That said, excited to be running the 2014 Indy 500."

:XXROFL:
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Gilligan is a liar. Its as obvious as can be so why lie about it?

I dont see how nascar cannot do something about the sliced bread incident after thinking it over. Wonder how much Gilligan got paid for giving up that position?
 
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Jeffrey00 said:
Do I honestly think something like this has happened in the past? Yes, probably, however I really hope this isn't on the reg. I honestly think this goes beyond letting a teammate pass to lead a lap, or letting the fast car by early in the race because there is no point on beating up the car that early. This was, by all evidence, one of the richer teams purchasing a FINISHING position from one of the poorer teams. That doesn't set right with me, and I am surprised it sits right with many here. To me this is really about a moral issue. I am not a Gordon fan, I actually don't hate Logano that much where I want to see him out. I could care less who has the 10th spot as long as it is the driver who actually deserved it. If this kind of crap is the new normal for NASCAR then maybe I should spend more time on Sundays watching the NFL. I mean that as a NASCAR fan, and not some a**hole who just wants to get his way.
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I agree with everything you said, but here's my problem. There is no way to police it, especially with multi car organizations. Jeff and JJ staying out longer than they wanted to deny Carl a bonus point in the 2011 chase surely cost both of them more than one finishing position. I'm no Carl fan, but was that a fair way to decide that championship?

In the end, all this is nascar inc's fault. They cheapened the sport with 'excitement' yellows and turned a blind eye to actions detrimental to the sport in the name of ratings. They think controversy is the way to go, so they come up with a convoluted restart rule that allows them to decide one way or the other to suit their goals. They sat back and watched Menard's team use coded cues to slide his car in the grass to help Harvick. They didn't seem to mind Menard just sitting there until the yellow came out, then driving off the grass. Look at Bowyers spin. He got off the track and on the apron very quickly, but nascar threw the yellow anyway. Other times, they hold the yellow for much more dangerous situations because it suits them.

there's countless other examples of nascar doing questionable things to keep a race, or even the chase, close and 'exciting'.
 
ElliottFan said:
Gilligan is a liar. Its as obvious as can be so why lie about it?

I dont see how nascar cannot do something about the sliced bread incident after thinking it over. Wonder how much Gilligan got paid for giving up that position?
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You guys do realize that this tweet was from nascacasm........
 
ElliottFan said:
Gilligan is a liar. Its as obvious as can be so why lie about it?

I dont see how nascar cannot do something about the sliced bread incident after thinking it over. Wonder how much Gilligan got paid for giving up that position?
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In the Menard and Bowyer incidents, nascar said they needed proof to do anything. In their first comments on this issue, they seem to hint they need proof of an actual transaction to do anything. Unless there is more evidence, it sounds like one team asking another for a favor, and that team asks for SOMETHING big in return.
 
Maybe they ought to Zero everyone out on the Chase and let it start off like the beginning of the season with no points. Probably be easier than trying sort out who helped who. But as long as they have these Super teams, I don't see how things are going to change.
 
FenderBumper said:
there's the problem. nascar couldn't catch Bowyer, so they came down hard on something they (and the media) know has been going on for years. Manipulated pit stops is what helped Tony get his championship in 2011.

Truex didn't do anything wrong, but nascar invented the 'organizational penalty' concept and used it to penalize Truex and get Newman back in, effectively undoing the damage to Newman. Meanwhile, the guy who got hurt by those very pit stops isn't addressed.
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how i 100% feel. nascar should have just came out and said they couldnt find any malious intent from the drivers, only Ty Norris team orders. They should have just suspended Ty and fined the crap out of MWR. Fans would have been pissed, but Nascar would be off the hook, and future teams would look to cover their tracks better in the future.
 
FenderBumper said:
I agree with everything you said, but here's my problem. There is no way to police it, especially with multi car organizations. Jeff and JJ staying out longer than they wanted to deny Carl a bonus point in the 2011 chase surely cost both of them more than one finishing position. I'm no Carl fan, but was that a fair way to decide that championship?

In the end, all this is nascar inc's fault. They cheapened the sport with 'excitement' yellows and turned a blind eye to actions detrimental to the sport in the name of ratings. They think controversy is the way to go, so they come up with a convoluted restart rule that allows them to decide one way or the other to suit their goals. They sat back and watched Menard's team use coded cues to slide his car in the grass to help Harvick. They didn't seem to mind Menard just sitting there until the yellow came out, then driving off the grass. Look at Bowyers spin. He got off the track and on the apron very quickly, but nascar threw the yellow anyway. Other times, they hold the yellow for much more dangerous situations because it suits them.

there's countless other examples of nascar doing questionable things to keep a race, or even the chase, close and 'exciting'.
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I understand the whole multicar team aspect, but I also think this goes a little beyond that. As much as I may not whole heatedly agree with teammates helping beyond leading laps, i know it is hard to regulate and not going anywhere. i know shady things have happened in the past, but that also doesn't make it right in 2013. if stick and ball is now taking a harsher stance on PED use, a norm in the past, then it is about time nascar started looking into this crap.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
then it is about time nascar started looking into this crap.
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I agree, but not like this. Re-writing the norms on the eve of the chase is just killing the whole thing and making it look like a circus. My worst fear is nascar gains a ton of fans who just love a circus. You can bet your ass Brian will go with the flow...of cash. They'll have employees throwing power-ups on the track if that what it takes to get a better TV contract.
 
UPDATE 2: Thursday morning release from NASCAR: "NASCAR is continuing to gather all the facts from last Saturday nights NASCAR Sprint Cup Series event at Richmond International Raceway. NASCAR will have no further comment until all the facts have been examined. "(NASCAR)(9-12-2013)

Jayski.
 
FenderBumper said:
I agree, but not like this. Re-writing the norms on the eve of the chase is just killing the whole thing and making it look like a circus. My worst fear is nascar gains a ton of fans who just love a circus. You can bet your ass Brian will go with the flow...of cash. They'll have employees throwing power-ups on the track if that what it takes to get a better TV contract.
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I would agree if Nascar were the ones coming out with this info, and saying this isn't acceptable when in the end the fans really had no clue. It would look more like they are manipulating chase results on their end and not the teams. However the reason this is a big deal now is because the teams failed to cover their tracks better and the media took off with it. I think that kind of puts Nascar in a position where they NEED to do something. Especially after the mess they created with the MWR penalty.

for me on this issue: out of sight, out of mind. but, if you get caught be prepared to pay the piper.
 
well I guess this answers the question on if something will be done by NASCAR

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Nothing from Nascar about the latest Joeygate? Probably can't wait for the race to start this weekend. Head stuck in the sand, while the press and fans hammer away at them. No comment, no comment. Probably can't find a Nascar official anywhere at this point.
 
I think we should hear something this afternoon. They cant ignore it. Whatever their plan is they have to address it. I think that the fact that they never actually did get the chance for the 38 to fall back to the 22 before Bowyer caused the caution that they may look at this as a "ripple effect".. which Brian France says they don't look at because of blah blah something something its too hard.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I think we should hear something this afternoon. They cant ignore it. Whatever their plan is they have to address it. I think that the fact that they never actually did get the chance for the 38 to fall back to the 22 before Bowyer caused the caution that they may look at this as a "ripple effect".. which Brian France says they don't look at because of blah blah something something its too hard.
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All they need to look for is intent. That is what MWR got hammered for. Intent to manipulate.
 
FLRacingFan said:
All they need to look for is intent. That is what MWR got hammered for. Intent to manipulate.
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I duno.. Vickers came down pit road and gave up 2 laps... Clint spun and completely changed the outcome of the race. All Joey/ his team did was say hey 38 can we pass you? We'll hook you up. I duno it could go either way. Im anxious to hear the news this afternoon tho.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I duno.. Vickers came down pit road and gave up 2 laps... Clint spun and completely changed the outcome of the race. All Joey/ his team did was say hey 38 can we pass you? We'll hook you up. I duno it could go either way. Im anxious to hear the news this afternoon tho.
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The NASCAR Contenders Live event, featuring all 12 Chase drivers, is scheduled for this afternoon at 1:30 central time.

Be interesting if they bring the drivers out on-stage one at a time and save Logano (or will it be Gordon) for last.
 
pjmolo said:
The NASCAR Contenders Live event, featuring all 12 Chase drivers, is scheduled for this afternoon at 1:30 central time.

Be interesting if they bring the drivers out on-stage one at a time and save Logano (or will it be Gordon) for last.
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Really? So yeah they need to get their **** together before then... this is intense... I would think more for me and all you Gordon fans.. it'll be interesting to see what NASCAR says their reasoning is if they don't penalize the 22. I think mostly because the plan didn't really work the way they were trying to get it to, and MWR's did.. that it wont be as harsh. Joey had no knowledge that the 38 was going to let him go. He was just racing. Regardless of what happens NASCAR is setting a precedence for the line between the 2 . Although I do think they need an interview with Penske himself... even if he's lying I want to see what he says.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Really? So yeah they need to get their **** together before then... this is intense... I would think more for me and all you Gordon fans.. it'll be interesting to see what NASCAR says their reasoning is if they don't penalize the 22. I think mostly because the plan didn't really work the way they were trying to get it to, and MWR's did.. that it wont be as harsh. Joey had no knowledge that the 38 was going to let him go. He was just racing. Regardless of what happens NASCAR is setting a precedence for the line between the 2 . Although I do think they need an interview with Penske himself... even if he's lying I want to see what he says.
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It really doesn't matter what anyone says, fans believe what they want to believe, facts be damned!
 
Yeah and theyre doin interviews with abunch of ppl from now til then

The tentative schedule for the chat is below.
11 a.m. ET: Dale Earnhardt Jr
11:08 a.m. ET: Kasey Kahne
11:15 a.m. ET: Kevin Harvick
11:23 a.m. ET: Kurt Busch
11:30 a.m. ET: Matt Kenseth
11:38 a.m. ET: Kyle Busch
11:45 a.m. ET: BREAK
11:53 a.m. ET: Jeb Burton
Noon ET: Chase Elliott
12:08 p.m. ET: Dylan Kwasniewski
12:15 p.m. ET: Kenzie Ruston
12:23 p.m. ET: Daniel Suarez
12:30 p.m. ET: Jimmie Johnson
12:38 p.m. ET: Ryan Newman
12:45 p.m. ET: BREAK
12:53 p.m. ET Ben Rhodes/Ryan Preece
1 p.m. ET: Michael Self/Brett Moffitt
1:08 p.m. ET: Cameron Hayley/Gray Gaulding
1:15 p.m. ET: Clint Bowyer
1:23 p.m. ET: Joey Logano
1:30 p.m. ET: Carl Edwards
1:38 p.m. ET: Greg Biffle

2:30 p.m. ET: NASCAR Contenders Live presented by Toyota (follow live)
 
They've had the Chase contenders on all morning on SirusXM NASCAR Radio.

Listening to Kyle Busch and Matt Kenseth right now.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
Do I honestly think something like this has happened in the past? Yes, probably, however I really hope this isn't on the reg. I honestly think this goes beyond letting a teammate pass to lead a lap, or letting the fast car by early in the race because there is no point on beating up the car that early. This was, by all evidence, one of the richer teams purchasing a FINISHING position from one of the poorer teams. That doesn't set right with me, and I am surprised it sits right with many here. To me this is really about a moral issue. I am not a Gordon fan, I actually don't hate Logano that much where I want to see him out. I could care less who has the 10th spot as long as it is the driver who actually deserved it. If this kind of crap is the new normal for NASCAR then maybe I should spend more time on Sundays watching the NFL. I mean that as a NASCAR fan, and not some a**hole who just wants to get his way.
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I dont like it, I have hated multi car teams from day one. I dont think it happens every race but I do think the Richmond race, Homestead, and the the Daytona duels are places a big team can exploit.

It is already bad enough with the "legit" advantages like buying provisionals when a super team adds another car to their roster.

If a satellite is getting engines from Hendricks he may not race them as hard. It isnt as blatant as Richmond but I still think that it is a problem.

And I dont like teammates mutually trading the lead for Bonus points. I wish they would just give bonus points to the three who led the most laps, plus more point to who led most, that would stop some of the BS.

Penalties regarding Truax, Bowyer I wish both had been disqualified from the chase. Truax is innocent but the car itself doesn't deserve to get in, nor does the chief offender Bowyer.
That would resolve the messy issue of deciding if Gordon or Logano should be in the chase.
 
Bread there is one undeniable "fact" that you are ignoring, the 22 beat the 24 into the chase by one point, Gilliland gave the 22 a point and by the conversations on the tape were given some type of compensation for doing so. Just because you keep saying that the 22 didn't get into the chase with the help of Gilliland doesn't make it true.
 
Johali said:
Bread there is one undeniable "fact" that you are ignoring, the 22 beat the 24 into the chase by one point, Gilliland gave the 22 a point and by the conversations on the tape were given some type of compensation for doing so. Just because you keep saying that the 22 didn't get into the chase with the help of Gilliland doesn't make it true.
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Wouldn't Logano have gotten in on the tie breaker then with their win?
 
Johali said:
Bread there is one undeniable "fact" that you are ignoring, the 22 beat the 24 into the chase by one point, Gilliland gave the 22 a point and by the conversations on the tape were given some type of compensation for doing so. Just because you keep saying that the 22 didn't get into the chase with the help of Gilliland doesn't make it true.
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Even if he didn't pass Gilliland he would have made the chase by the tiebreaker for 10th.. and the bribe could be something as simple as letting them know a setup secret or something. Im looking forward to hearing what Roger Penske has to say about it.

But you're right.. I cannot deny that Logano beat Jeff by one point. Which was given to him byy Gilliland... another "undeniable fact" is that Joey still would have made the chase.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Even if he didn't pass Gilliland he would have made the chase by the tiebreaker for 10th.. and the bribe could be something as simple as letting them know a setup secret or something. Im looking forward to hearing what Roger Penske has to say about it.

But you're right.. I cannot deny that Logano beat Jeff by one point. Which was given to him byy Gilliland... another "undeniable fact" is that Joey still would have made the chase.
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Another one is they didn't know that at the time the deal was made because the 22 got three points on the last lap, one each from the 15-55-38. If he's in then he's in, if he's out then he's out, either way lets get this mess over with and get on with the racing.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Personally, I think this is much a do about nothing. How many deals do you think are worked out on that spotters stand each and every single week? I bet too numerous to count.
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Just because it has been done before doesn't make it right. That is if Penske did indeed buy a finishing spot.
 
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