Illegal communication between teams?

NASCAR.COM doesn't have a peep on this story. That's how much they're looking "into it." lol
 
The problem isn't whether there was improper communication. The problem is whether Penske bribed #38 to sandbag and let Logano pass him.

One team effectively buying track position during the actual race severely hurts the integrity of the sport. Just can't have that.
 
beantownkid10 said:
You might be able to communicate with other teams off the radio. But you certainly can't legally create a deal that manipulates the outcome.
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I'm trying to figure out what now constitutes cheating/manipulation vs. mere teamwork/cooperation. The latter has been a generally accepted part of NASCAR since the multi-car teams arrived on the scene years ago. As others here have pointed out, one could make the case that any sort of teamwork/cooperation can be considered race manipulation, whether it's letting a fellow driver lead a lap or giving them a spot on the track by simply slowing up to let them pass or coming down pit road. Every point counts.

I dunno, I think this whole thing is becoming somewhat comical. We're taking people out of the Chase and putting people in and talking about doing more of the same. At what point do we just set the darn Chase field and go racing?
 
Mr. Gregory said:
I'm trying to figure out what now constitutes cheating/manipulation vs. mere teamwork/cooperation. The latter has been a generally accepted part of NASCAR since the multi-car teams arrived on the scene years ago. As others here have pointed out, one could make the case that any sort of teamwork/cooperation can be considered race manipulation, whether it's letting a fellow driver lead a lap or giving them a spot on the track by simply slowing up to let them pass or coming down pit road. Every point counts.

I dunno, I think this whole thing is becoming somewhat comical. We're taking people out of the Chase and putting people in and talking about doing more of the same. At what point do we just set the darn Chase field and go racing?
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That kinda logic won't stand around here, fella. MWR is the worst team ever in the history of anything and Bowyer deserves to be kicked out of the Chase after 25 good finishes and 1 questionable race and old Jeff Gordon should be inserted just because of goodwill and sheer desire of Jeff Gordon fans, his mediocre season be damned!
 
Mr. Gregory said:
I'm trying to figure out what now constitutes cheating/manipulation vs. mere teamwork/cooperation. The latter has been a generally accepted part of NASCAR since the multi-car teams arrived on the scene years ago. As others here have pointed out, one could make the case that any sort of teamwork/cooperation can be considered race manipulation, whether it's letting a fellow driver lead a lap or giving them a spot on the track by simply slowing up to let them pass or coming down pit road. Every point counts.

I dunno, I think this whole thing is becoming somewhat comical. We're taking people out of the Chase and putting people in and talking about doing more of the same. At what point do we just set the darn Chase field and go racing?
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Sunday at 1pm.

lol
 
KevinWI said:
That kinda logic won't stand around here, fella. MWR is the worst team ever in the history of anything and Bowyer deserves to be kicked out of the Chase after 25 good finishes and 1 questionable race and old Jeff Gordon should be inserted just because of goodwill and sheer desire of Jeff Gordon fans, his mediocre season be damned!
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I feel a chase champion provisional spot coming on.
 
reck said:
NASCAR.COM doesn't have a peep on this story. That's how much they're looking "into it." lol
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It actually surprises me how may media outlets and media reporters are just shrugging this off like it is no big deal. If this was a stick and ball team, asking another team to throw a game or play to help them get in the play-offs it would be the story of the year on Sports Center, FS1, NBCSN, ect... I know NASCAR isn't the same as stick and ball, but it is still a huge issue if you ask me, and I think many fans feel the same way.
 
fs1 said they'd use charlotte studios fer graphics.....
pretty obvious today ......on raceday.

"breaking news ! "

not 1......but 2 big screen back drops! ........"conspiracy ! " ha!

same tomorrow.....just 24/48 radio ! ha!
 
hawg dawg said:
fs1 said they'd use charlotte studios fer graphics.....
pretty obvious today ......on raceday.

"breaking news ! "

not 1......but 2 big screen back drops! ........"conspiracy ! " ha!

same tomorrow.....just 24/48 radio ! ha!
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Honestly every post you make I never have a damn clue as to what you're tryna get across.
 
KevinWI said:
That kinda logic won't stand around here, fella. MWR is the worst team ever in the history of anything and Bowyer deserves to be kicked out of the Chase after 25 good finishes and 1 questionable race and old Jeff Gordon should be inserted just because of goodwill and sheer desire of Jeff Gordon fans, his mediocre season be damned!
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Not sure what Gordon has to do with it. It seems like fans of many drivers don't think highly of it.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
I'm trying to figure out what now constitutes cheating/manipulation vs. mere teamwork/cooperation. The latter has been a generally accepted part of NASCAR since the multi-car teams arrived on the scene years ago. As others here have pointed out, one could make the case that any sort of teamwork/cooperation can be considered race manipulation, whether it's letting a fellow driver lead a lap or giving them a spot on the track by simply slowing up to let them pass or coming down pit road. Every point counts.
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And NASCAR is trying to figure out where to draw that line too. In a couple of years they're going to the new objective rulebook and this is something they'll have to address.
 
Penske buying a position for Logano to be in the chase does sound pretty bad, but agreements like that happen all the time. I've heard radio communications where a spotter tells a driver to let another driver go plenty of times before.

That said, Logano shouldn't be in the chase because he wouldn't be in the chase had Bowyer not spun out intentionally. I guess people seem to be forgetting that.
 
beantownkid10 said:
If you look at the Race Hub audio. It starts at Lap 13 to go. That was when Gordon and Truex were battling for 6th and 7th and Newman was in the lead and Logano was in 25th.
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If, as you say, Gordon was in 7th when Penske's offer was first made, the whole points scenario gets really strange.

Remember, going into the race Logano had 729 points to Gordon's 713.

beantownkid10 said:
So he (Logano) was out by 2 points. Gordon had 4 second lead on Kenseth who was in 8th and there was no chance he (Gordon) was gonna lose any points at that point without anything drastic happening.

So when this whole thing was started, Logano was out of the Chase completely at that point. Newman was gonna get his second win and Gordon had bumped him (Logano) out of the top 10.
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By my figuring, with 13 laps to go the battle for 10 place in points boiled down to this:

25th place in the race gave Logano an additional 19 points (no laps led) bringing him to a total of 748.

7th place in the race gave Gordon an additional 37 points (plus 1 for leading a lap) bringing him to a total of 751 points.

Meaning Logano was 3 points behind Gordon when Penske made his offer to the 38 team, not just 2.

So what was the point of Logano taking a spot from Gilliland if it still left him 2 points behind Gordon ?

Unless . . .

Penske knew that Logano might have an "opportunity" to pick up another another two spots, thereby enabling Logano to tie Gordon at 751 points for the 10th place in points. (Logano wins the tie-breaker).

As it turned out, Gordon dropped from 7th to 8th place in the race and Logano had the 10th place in points all to himself.


"Roger, this is Mikey. I know we're in the middle of a race but do ya got a minute ?"
 
The story is newsworthy, just look at the interest these related threads have drawn on the forum.

But the only new dynamic is the news exposure. One would have to be naive to believe that this is something new.

Superteams naturally have the ability to be the kingmakers. You cant piss off the France family, but you cant piss off the folks like Hendrick, and Roush etc if you drive their brands (with only a few exceptions).

Once a person owns so many cars, drivers and personal the feeling of entitlement has to be inescapable.

They do some good things, they employ an industry in a business that is almost impossible to turn a profit. Still a lot of compromises are attached to the postives.
 
Captain Coyfish said:
Here's my take:

Clint Bowyer deserved a bigger penalty -- he intentionally spun out affecting the entire race.

Brain Vickers deserved a slight penalty (maybe 25 points) because pitting doesnt effect the race as much and it isnt as clear Vickers was in on it.

Logano should just get a small fine, because asking people to move over for whatever reason isnt a huge deal. It DOES break the communication rule, but its a rather small rule.
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That's kinda like robbing a bank and imposing the sentence on how much money the guy got , isn't it ?:D
 
NASCAR had better put on one helluva show this weekend if they want to take some of the attention away from the news of these past few days. Here in the Pittsburgh market, NASCAR seldom makes the news broadcast. They've had something on it each night this week and none of it has been positive. Nobody that I work with follows the sport but they all have heard about this and have commented on it. Again, nothing good.

One very bad part of this is that the media will scrutinize every teams communications from this point on. Everything will continue to be questioned from here on out and accusations will continue to be made, just like the newest Logano incident. Things will be posted by the media that will be twisted to produce scandal at the ultimate cost to the racing fan. I said it before in one of the other cheating type threads, this is beginning of the end of the radio communications being made available to the public. Scrambled communications are allowed currently between crew to crew communications but NASCAR has always allowed the driver to crew/crew to driver communications to be heard. Anyone that goes to the races or subscribes to one of the online services knows how great it is to be able to listen to their favorite driver. I think those days are now numbered and that won't be good for anyone.
 
ted@economy said:
That's kinda like robbing a bank and imposing the sentence on how much money the guy got , isn't it ?:D
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They already do that Ted. Differences in the law between simple theft, larceny, grand larceny, felony theft all have big impact on jail time/fines.

dpkimmel2001 said:
I think those days are now numbered and that won't be good for anyone.
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I hope it's worth it for all the outraged fans who were so furious that Bowyer and Vickers pitted early when they didn't need to and spun their car in circles.
 
@MartySmithESPN
NASCAR just issued a statement saying it continues to gather facts from RIR & will have no further comment until all facts are examined.
 
So anyways, as I was saying Clint Bowyer and MWR are the biggest cheaty cheatertons and should be banned forever, I mean no one else in NASCAR was doing anything even close to cheating like they were...oh wait which thread is this again?
 
NASCAR makes the top fold again.

BT9lRVxCAAA0Pbo.jpg:large
 
Marty Smith ‏@MartySmithESPN 15h
Pondering why no one was mad when Dave Marcis used to have "handling problems" during Big E's championship years...

Anyone know anything about this? Sounds like Sr and co. were a bit more clever about the whole thing.
 
Haulers arrive at Chicagoland at 7 PM eastern tonight. Will the teams roll in knowing who's even running for the championship?
 
FenderBumper said:
Marty Smith ‏@MartySmithESPN 15h
Pondering why no one was mad when Dave Marcis used to have "handling problems" during Big E's championship years...

Anyone know anything about this? Sounds like Sr and co. were a bit more clever about the whole thing.
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Like I've said many times on here. This sort of stuff has been around as long as they've been running for points. Single car organizations used to field other cars for this very reason. It wasn't limited to even RCR back then. It also wasn't behind closed doors. Everyone knew what the intent was.
 
So does Gordon get back in? I'm thinking maybe he does. I'm just curious how nascar will handle one teammate helping another in the future. Does the whole Logano situation revolve around a payoff? No payoff, no foul? Wouldn't that be institutionalizing a huge advantage for multicar organizations?

IMO, if nascar can't end multi team organizations helping each other out on the track, they have to allow some leeway for reaching out among manufacturers. Since nascar chose not to draw a clear line on the MWR pit stops and make it clear that they went too far, we are looking at 1 guy possibly giving up one spot to another becoming a major issue.

What a friggin' mess. I guess the best thing that can come from all this is a ton of new fans tune in to see Jeff take revenge at Chicago.

Don't let us down Jeff.
 
VaDirt said:
Unlike Bowyer's spinning on purposed, this is a non-story.
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there's the problem. nascar couldn't catch Bowyer, so they came down hard on something they (and the media) know has been going on for years. Manipulated pit stops is what helped Tony get his championship in 2011.

Truex didn't do anything wrong, but nascar invented the 'organizational penalty' concept and used it to penalize Truex and get Newman back in, effectively undoing the damage to Newman. Meanwhile, the guy who got hurt by those very pit stops isn't addressed.
 
Greg said:
But the only new dynamic is the news exposure. One would have to be naive to believe that this is something new.
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Do I honestly think something like this has happened in the past? Yes, probably, however I really hope this isn't on the reg. I honestly think this goes beyond letting a teammate pass to lead a lap, or letting the fast car by early in the race because there is no point on beating up the car that early. This was, by all evidence, one of the richer teams purchasing a FINISHING position from one of the poorer teams. That doesn't set right with me, and I am surprised it sits right with many here. To me this is really about a moral issue. I am not a Gordon fan, I actually don't hate Logano that much where I want to see him out. I could care less who has the 10th spot as long as it is the driver who actually deserved it. If this kind of crap is the new normal for NASCAR then maybe I should spend more time on Sundays watching the NFL. I mean that as a NASCAR fan, and not some a**hole who just wants to get his way.
 
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