Las Vegas test 1/31-2/1

Has the package been tested enough? If this is all they need, I'm good with it. If they need more, and it wasn't developed thoroughly enough, that is when I get frustrated with the testing ban. Spend the money now, and save it later. Get this right.
I'll be honest with you, I dont want them( the teams) to have it all figured out by the time we get to Atlanta or Vegas, I want to see who gets the info provided last week and comes out with the best setup.
 
2019 packages supporters a week ago: this should create more lead changes

2019 package supporters now: at least the leader won't be 6 seconds ahead while no one can pass him
Can you give me the link for the race we ran this year?
 
yep, that is part of the reason they don't let them test this package, for awhile the playing field will be much closer.
 
I'll be honest with you, I dont want them( the teams) to have it all figured out by the time we get to Atlanta or Vegas, I want to see who gets the info provided last week and comes out with the best setup.

I like that.
 
lol. Oh I think that opinion has been formulated already.

Then there is the actual racing product that does not sound inspiring. However I will need to see an actual race or 2 in order to form an opinion.
 
yep, that is part of the reason they don't let them test this package, for awhile the playing field will be much closer.

Gotta do better than "awhile." We both agree on that. I like the engineering challenge (as much as you hate it). Let's give the teams different solutions moving forward--that is the only way to stay ahead of development. Even then, it is next to impossible. It is my hope that NASCAR is already working on solutions for post Charlotte.
 
Gotta do better than "awhile." We both agree on that. I like the engineering challenge (as much as you hate it). Let's give the teams different solutions moving forward--that is the only way to stay ahead of development. Even then, it is next to impossible. It is my hope that NASCAR is already working on solutions for post Charlotte.
they have said as much. I believe this current bunch in power is going to do a better job of staying ahead of the teams than driving around the Hamptons loaded
 
yep I don't do a lot of whining. Don't associate with those that do. It's worked pretty well. Poor mouthing is just that.

The main thing is that you are happy with Nascar and the direction it has taken over that last 10-15 years. Enjoy the Super Bowl tonight!
 
Has the package been tested enough? If this is all they need, I'm good with it. If they need more, and it wasn't developed thoroughly enough, that is when I get frustrated with the testing ban. Spend the money now, and save it later. Get this right.

This rules change wasn’t even researched so I doubt it has been properly tested.
 
Gotta do better than "awhile." We both agree on that. I like the engineering challenge (as much as you hate it). Let's give the teams different solutions moving forward--that is the only way to stay ahead of development. Even then, it is next to impossible. It is my hope that NASCAR is already working on solutions for post Charlotte.
another thing I go by is when Roger Penske is excited about the direction the sport is going and the speed of it. Should be interesting
 
yep, that is part of the reason they don't let them test this package, for awhile the playing field will be much closer.

When you have to go that route there is something fundamentally wrong. Delaying the inevitable in the hopes of getting a couple of good races in is desperation.
 
All I did was put my observations of other people out there. I said nothing about my own observations of any racing.
My point is they dont have the data to provide this conclusion. The naysayers or the sunshine pumpers.
 
The racing was awesome last year. I truly don't know what NASCAR is chasing, but it really doesn't matter to me, I will still be there. I don't know who they are listening to. I really don't. If the Super Bowl is a flop today, I don't think we will go to a 75 yard field.

NASCAR has been chasing a package that is enticing enough to get new people and those that have strayed away the last few years back in the game. Last year's package was an attempt to do that, and as much as SOME of you liked it, it is quite apparent that at least as many did not, and it certainly did not dent the slide in viewership and attendance. Personally, I couldn't get ANYBODY to watch last year's product, I could barely watch it myself. The 2019 package is just another crack at it. It may work, and it may not., but NASCAR obviously feels (as do I) that the status quo is just not going to cut it. I would also expect that NASCAR would like as much real world data as possible before they finalize the specs on the next generation car. They tried going one way, now they are trying to go another. The answer, if there is one, may lay beyond what is being tried, or somewhere in the middle. You mentioned the NFL. As popular as the NFL is, they make changes EVERY YEAR, to the point that I barely recognize the game I grew up with. I grew up in an era of punishing ground games and bone crushing defenses. Now, football is like a video game. I don't proclaim to know how successful (if at all) the 2019 package will be, but I applaud NASCAR for trying SOMETHING, and I know for damn sure you don't learn anything by just talking about it. Maybe when its all said and done, it will prove that 2018 WAS the right answer, as much as I cringe at the thought. It's kind of like the Roval experiment. I was against it from the start, and STILL think it was a hot mess, the road course version of a restrictor plate race, BUT, many of you loved it, and in the end, I guess that is all that matters.
 
NASCAR made a no testing rule to save teams money. Changed the rules which costs the teams money, but didn't change the no testing rule to make sure that the changes work, which if they don't, will cost the teams even more money. If this doesn't make sense, it's because it doesn't.


How about my " caution clock" idea ? It's good ......... right ?
 
yep, that is part of the reason they don't let them test this package, for awhile the playing field will be much closer.

Yup, the big boys are throwing their smart people at making better turtle shells, turtle motors, turtle suspension, etc

NASCAR is not about fast — it is about being faster than your competitors while staying within the rules (sort of), and while entertaining the mob.

Anyone reading this is part of the mob. :D
 
If Nascar had researched this change properly they would have referenced the information. Also from announcement to inception not enough time passed to collect and disseminate the information.
 
Yup, the big boys are throwing their smart people at making better turtle shells, turtle motors, turtle suspension, etc

NASCAR is not about fast — it is about being faster than your competitors while staying within the rules (sort of), and while entertaining the mob.

Anyone reading this is part of the mob. :D

Turtle R&D :)
 
NASCAR has been chasing a package that is enticing enough to get new people and those that have strayed away the last few years back in the game. Last year's package was an attempt to do that, and as much as SOME of you liked it, it is quite apparent that at least as many did not, and it certainly did not dent the slide in viewership and attendance. Personally, I couldn't get ANYBODY to watch last year's product, I could barely watch it myself. The 2019 package is just another crack at it. It may work, and it may not., but NASCAR obviously feels (as do I) that the status quo is just not going to cut it. I would also expect that NASCAR would like as much real world data as possible before they finalize the specs on the next generation car. They tried going one way, now they are trying to go another. The answer, if there is one, may lay beyond what is being tried, or somewhere in the middle. You mentioned the NFL. As popular as the NFL is, they make changes EVERY YEAR, to the point that I barely recognize the game I grew up with. I grew up in an era of punishing ground games and bone crushing defenses. Now, football is like a video game. I don't proclaim to know how successful (if at all) the 2019 package will be, but I applaud NASCAR for trying SOMETHING, and I know for damn sure you don't learn anything by just talking about it. Maybe when its all said and done, it will prove that 2018 WAS the right answer, as much as I cringe at the thought. It's kind of like the Roval experiment. I was against it from the start, and STILL think it was a hot mess, the road course version of a restrictor plate race, BUT, many of you loved it, and in the end, I guess that is all that matters.



If there is one thing the new " package" won't do, it is to bring in new fans, I just cannot see that happening. Most folks that are out of diapers have already made their NASCAR decision. I mean really, is some potential fan going to see the new horsepower figures and say " that is for me " ? Throw out a tv ad that says the new NASCAR cars are twin turbo 2000 hp monsters that smoke the tires around the whole track and just MAYBE some younger folks might take a look before switching the set to basketball
 
NASCAR has been chasing a package that is enticing enough to get new people and those that have strayed away the last few years back in the game. Last year's package was an attempt to do that, and as much as SOME of you liked it, it is quite apparent that at least as many did not, and it certainly did not dent the slide in viewership and attendance. Personally, I couldn't get ANYBODY to watch last year's product, I could barely watch it myself. The 2019 package is just another crack at it. It may work, and it may not., but NASCAR obviously feels (as do I) that the status quo is just not going to cut it. I would also expect that NASCAR would like as much real world data as possible before they finalize the specs on the next generation car. They tried going one way, now they are trying to go another. The answer, if there is one, may lay beyond what is being tried, or somewhere in the middle. You mentioned the NFL. As popular as the NFL is, they make changes EVERY YEAR, to the point that I barely recognize the game I grew up with. I grew up in an era of punishing ground games and bone crushing defenses. Now, football is like a video game. I don't proclaim to know how successful (if at all) the 2019 package will be, but I applaud NASCAR for trying SOMETHING, and I know for damn sure you don't learn anything by just talking about it. Maybe when its all said and done, it will prove that 2018 WAS the right answer, as much as I cringe at the thought. It's kind of like the Roval experiment. I was against it from the start, and STILL think it was a hot mess, the road course version of a restrictor plate race, BUT, many of you loved it, and in the end, I guess that is all that matters.


It is evident that Nascar is on the hope plan and by that I mean just trying something and hoping it works. There is only one way Nascar can consider any change to be a success and that is by attracting younger fans. That’s what it has come down to.
 
It is evident that Nascar is on the hope plan and by that I mean just trying something and hoping it works. There is only one way Nascar can consider any change to be a success and that is by attracting younger fans. That’s what it has come down to.
Oh I thought you liked the racing last year? That is what you have said many times. So now it is time to go the other way?
 
If there is one thing the new " package" won't do, it is to bring in new fans, I just cannot see that happening. Most folks that are out of diapers have already made their NASCAR decision. I mean really, is some potential fan going to see the new horsepower figures and say " that is for me " ? Throw out a tv ad that says the new NASCAR cars are twin turbo 2000 hp monsters that smoke the tires around the whole track and just MAYBE some younger folks might take a look before switching the set to basketball

Yessir. It will take a miracle for Nascar to gain any traction with the youngsters. They don’t care if JJ Yeley is in 38th 3 seconds behind the leader or in 38th 3 laps down.
 
Don't know if this warrants its own thread or not but the various "rules package" threads are already pretty cluttered.
Welp, it didn't take long for this one to get cluttered up the same as the others.
 
Oh I thought you liked the racing last year? That is what you have said many times. So now it is time to go the other way? Yep pretty typical.

What is the problem? I liked the racing last year and wish it was continuing. However attendance was poor and ratings were horrid so something had to change.

Change was needed. I think what will happen is that no younger viewers will start following the series but more current fans will leave.
 
With the cars going so much slower this year will any of the tracks need to liberally apply that Aquanet stuff to make the cars stick?
 
If there is one thing the new " package" won't do, it is to bring in new fans, I just cannot see that happening. Most folks that are out of diapers have already made their NASCAR decision. I mean really, is some potential fan going to see the new horsepower figures and say " that is for me " ? Throw out a tv ad that says the new NASCAR cars are twin turbo 2000 hp monsters that smoke the tires around the whole track and just MAYBE some younger folks might take a look before switching the set to basketball

I don't have any more of an idea of what will attract fans than you do, but I know that cars running single file separated by 2-5 seconds per position for 150 consecutive green flag laps is NOT going to do it. Personally, I don't think most fans or potential fans give a damn about how much horsepower the cars have. What most DO want is close competition, passing, cars running 2-3 wide, bumping into each other, and dare I say it, a wreck every once in awhile. There were multiple times last year when I watched the 9 car do an entire fuel run and never gain or lose a position. If I want to go watch a parade of cars going by quickly, but not actually racing anybody, I'll go stand next to an interstate.
 
I've always looked at it as making the cars harder to drive. And for awhile the lower downforce package did that until they figured it out and than that led to some of the least amount of passing that was back to the aero twisted sisters era. So continuing on with making the cars harder to drive, it is going to be harder to drive this year. Cars are going to have to be fast n loose for a short run gamble or set up more conservatively for the longer run. Car set up and strategy is going to be key. That is going to create passing as cars come and go, not mired down in dirty air back in the pack and can't go anywhere.
 
I don't have any more of an idea of what will attract fans than you do, but I know that cars running single file separated by 2-5 seconds per position for 150 consecutive green flag laps is NOT going to do it. Personally, I don't think most fans or potential fans give a damn about how much horsepower the cars have. What most DO want is close competition, passing, cars running 2-3 wide, bumping into each other, and dare I say it, a wreck every once in awhile. There were multiple times last year when I watched the 9 car do an entire fuel run and never gain or lose a position. If I want to go watch a parade of cars going by quickly, but not actually racing anybody, I'll go stand next to an interstate.


By all accounts the 2019 rules won’t do anything for close competition other than create the illusion of it.

NASCAR’s drivers will be fighting it out for the Hans Christian Andersen cup. Sad indeed.
 
I've always looked at it as making the cars harder to drive. And for awhile the lower downforce package did that until they figured it out and than that led to some of the least amount of passing that was back to the aero twisted sisters era. So continuing on with making the cars harder to drive, it is going to be harder to drive this year. Cars are going to have to be fast n loose for a short run gamble or set up more conservatively for the longer run. Car set up and strategy is going to be key. That is going to create passing as cars come and go, not mired down in dirty air back in the pack and can't go anywhere.

The slower you make the cars go the harder they are to drive. Maybe they should cut horsepower to 175 in 2020 to really showcase the talent of the top drivers.
 
The slower you make the cars go the harder they are to drive. Maybe they should cut horsepower to 175 in 2020 to really showcase the talent of the top drivers.
Have them run stock front wheel drive 4 cylinder Camrys, Fusions and Cruzes. Those are around 175-200 HP. That'll be the best racing in the history of NASCAR
 
Have them run stock front wheel drive 4 cylinder Camrys, Fusions and Cruzes. Those are around 175-200 HP. That'll be the best racing in the history of NASCAR

Lol. Let’s make them have to use the space saver tire for part of the race too!
 
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