lets fix nascar,because they are to dumb to do it.

acmerocket said:
i started this thread mainly to talk about making each car a little different to help the racing. and most everyone.is still stuck on making changes, horse power, different tires ,dates of races,all of these still just make all the cars the same, it just like a pony ride.
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I HATE the Gen 7 car. HATE IT! HATE IT! HATE IT! DON"T WANT IT!

Ok...I feel little better now.

Since teams were "going broke <racing? gasp!!!>" the cars needed to be cheaper to build. Translate=less employees. Fabricators got the axe. Some engineers got the axe or maybe just shuffled.

Ok, again? How do we make it cheaper? We BUY what we used to build! Ummmm? Seems little counter-intuitive to me. You have the people, you have the fabrication equipment, you have the engineers & computers...get rid of all that and just write a check instead!

What I don't understand is how IndyCar has managed to build a spec'ish car without too much hassle. They DID have more than one manufacturer tho. Some were fast, some were slow. The slow eventually went away. Nature of the beast. How many "chassis builders" in IndyCar now? I really don't know. Talking about primarily the tub. cause...you will see as i go.

Next Gen has bolt on "clips". Theoretically cheaper to repair crash damage. But now we hear takes waaaaay longer to assemble/swap than expected. That's labor/man-hours. Expensive. My twestion to NASCAR is...why didn't you spec a "tub" designed & built by X manufacturer and spec dimensions of clips/bumpers/bolt-on stuff that teams could build? Spec suspension parts that are single source. Body, should be at least 3 companies. All spec tho. I'm assuming most of the time building old-school chassis was spent on the "tub/centersection". Clips should be few hours each max.

And whose brilliant idea was it to try to slow the cars corner speed down by INCREASING the tires contact patch? Did they NEED 36" diameter brakes? Independant rear suspension for oval tracks? I think NOT!

Talk amongst yerself fellers. I gotta go pick my nose.
 
KTMLew01 said:
How many "chassis builders" in IndyCar now? I really don't know. Talking about primarily the tub. cause...you will see as i go.
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Dalara. Only chassis now. Although haven't researched exactly what they consider chassis. I consider steel tubing, in NASCAR builds, as chassis. Suspension is suspension. Etc, Etc.
 
StandOnIt said:
I never encountered so many racing whiney asses until I started posted here. The internet is to blame for that. It looks like from the crowd pics that a lot of fans are doing the same thing I used to do.
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This. I have literally never seen a bad race either on TV or in person. I don't even look for a good race because each one is different & it is what it is. I'd rather go back to Fontana and relive the hell of watching KB win his first with Poor Ricky than not watch at all. I don't think the internet is to blame. It only gives a forum for what has been there all along--we are just aware of it now....and I agree, I don't see many pissed off people on TV or at the track. Something is absolutely right, and by chasing the elusive "great racing" we are passively ****ting on what we have....and I am just fine with what we have.
 
Revman said:
This. I have literally never seen a bad race either on TV or in person. I don't even look for a good race because each one is different & it is what it is. I'd rather go back to Fontana and relive the hell of watching KB win his first with Poor Ricky than not watch at all. I don't think the internet is to blame. It only gives a forum for what has been there all along--we are just aware of it now....and I agree, I don't see many pissed off people on TV or at the track. Something is absolutely right, and by chasing the elusive "great racing" we are passively ****ting on what we have....and I am just fine with what we have.
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this is well said. The internet just gives a voice to those who are pissed off and those who are enjoying the product, well are too busy enjoying what they see at the track or on tv to log on and air grievances over said product. While I myself prefer some facets of the way things used to be ( Full season points system, teams building their own cars and parts, Winston as a series sponsor, Saturday night races, no stages, TV Presentation, the video games, less road courses) the way things are now are pretty damn cool too. The young talent ascending in Cup is probably the best I've seen as a fan, I mean this weekly field is stacked. Teams are better across the board now than before and that goes along with the stacked field, legit you have about 15 or 16 drivers a week that can win and I myself wouldnt be surprised if they did. The racing also is pretty good, but I feel thats always been the case because the racing part interests me and keeps me entertained enough, like I need my weekly fix of this mayhem. Road Course, Super Speedway, Short Track, you name it I need it. I also see it from the other point of view too, alot of yesteryear NASCAR was pretty damn cool....I miss that in my own way and sometimes very often...... the Winston Cup Series was pretty bad ass in its own right. But I'd hate to miss what is happening now because I was focused on the past, some of the present deserves our attention.
 
it think indy car gets away with spec parts, because alot my things are more open,like wing and wicker bill adjustments, 2 different ties, push to pass and there thing, well nascar has windshield wipers.:dirtbike:
 
acmerocket said:
it think indy car gets away with spec parts, because alot my things are more open,like wing and wicker bill adjustments, 2 different ties, push to pass and there thing, well nascar has windshield wipers.:dirtbike:
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wow.oh my god i messed up so many spellings on this.like tires. oh well
 
The thread title had the part 'to dumb' . Irony, or nitpicking..?
 
acmerocket said:
they can spend millions of dollars on changes but as long has they keep making changes to all the cars and showing all the teams the other teams data. well guess what,all the cars will go the same speed.boring.right?
so nascar should open up some of the rules a little. like letting teams adjust the front and rear spoiler a few degrees. maybe offer a few different final drives.anything to make the cars a little different.
STOP letting other team look a your data.who it the hell thought this was a good idea?????
STOP the dumbass stage stops. so everyone will stop a different times.and they dont know when the caution flags are coming.
OK lets see how this goes before it turns in a sh-t show.i give it 5 to 10 posts tops.
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If we're going to be making posts about the sanctioning body being "dumb", can we at least make sure we know the difference between "to, and "too"?



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An example of the incongruence with NASCAR and the fans is Chase Elliott. Nascar hears Elliott fans making the most noise at the track, just like Dale Jr fans. They then assume THATS what the fans want.

Nascar doesn't realize that the loudest fans (online and in person) are the fans who are the minority, and generally out of touch with the nuances of the sport.

These fans care more about ideas than racing.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
jaqua19 said:
An example of the incongruence with NASCAR and the fans is Chase Elliott. Nascar hears Elliott fans making the most noise at the track, just like Dale Jr fans. They then assume THATS what the fans want.

Nascar doesn't realize that the loudest fans (online and in person) are the fans who are the minority, and generally out of touch with the nuances of the sport.

These fans care more about ideas than racing.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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This is how we end up with half a dozen road courses.
 
Revman said:
This. I have literally never seen a bad race either on TV or in person. I don't even look for a good race because each one is different & it is what it is. I'd rather go back to Fontana and relive the hell of watching KB win his first with Poor Ricky than not watch at all. I don't think the internet is to blame. It only gives a forum for what has been there all along--we are just aware of it now....and I agree, I don't see many pissed off people on TV or at the track. Something is absolutely right, and by chasing the elusive "great racing" we are passively ****ting on what we have....and I am just fine with what we have.
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Well, low expectations are a self fulfilling prophecy. Much like fast food, when people just accept a mediocre product, that's all they will ever get. There has always has been and there always WILL be bad races. It's all about making them the exception rather than the rule.
 
Switchback said:
This is how we end up with half a dozen road courses.
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I have absolutely NO problem with that, my only issue is some of the venue choices. The choice needs to be those venues that offer the best experience and compliment the attributes ( or lack of) of the Cup cars, not just for business expediency. If the racing action on the track is not the PRIMARY reason people are showing up, then something is VERY wrong.
 
Formerjackman said:
There has always has been and there always WILL be bad races.
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BS. The COVID shutdown should have taught us that the only bad race is the once that was cancelled. Period. If you think you saw a bad race, you aren't paying attention closely enough.
 
Revman said:
BS. The COVID shutdown should have taught us that the only bad race is the once that was cancelled. Period. If you think you saw a bad race, you aren't paying attention closely enough.
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If you are looking hard enough I think you can find one. One I remember was Truex leading every lap at Charlotte. But I'm sure there were people that thought that was one of the best races there was. Depends on your perspective. I think some seldom see a race they like from their constant complaints. :idunno:
 
Revman said:
BS. The COVID shutdown should have taught us that the only bad race is the once that was cancelled. Period. If you think you saw a bad race, you aren't paying attention closely enough.
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Go find a recording of the 1999 Michigan race where Dale Jarrett beat Jeff Gordon by 30 seconds, and Jeff beat the rest of the field by another 30. There was absolutely NOTHING happening that entire race. I spent the last 50 laps looking at my stopwatch trying to see if Jeff could cut the margin down to 29 seconds. Quite possibly the most boring race in NASCAR history. Even the Jarrett fans sitting near us couldn't wait for it to be over.
 
Formerjackman said:
Go find a recording of the 1999 Michigan race where Dale Jarrett beat Jeff Gordon by 30 seconds, and Jeff beat the rest of the field by another 30. There was absolutely NOTHING happening that entire race. I spent the last 50 laps looking at my stopwatch trying to see if Jeff could cut the margin down to 29 seconds. Quite possibly the most boring race in NASCAR history. Even the Jarrett fans sitting near us couldn't wait for it to be over.
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I thought it was a good race. Gordon was 4-5 seconds back with 20 to go and started chipping away at the lead, I think he got within a second by the end. Jarrett had the car to beat that day for sure. Tracks like Michigan will always be hit or miss no matter what decade, no matter what car, no matter what HP/aero package. Especially when there are no cautions all day.

IMO, the only "bad" races are the ones cut short by rain, or something dumb like running restrictor plates at Loudon. It's unrealistic to expect every race to be a barnburner.
 
2 Sweet said:
I thought it was a good race. Gordon was 4-5 seconds back with 20 to go and started chipping away at the lead, I think he got within a second by the end. Jarrett had the car to beat that day for sure. Tracks like Michigan will always be hit or miss no matter what decade, no matter what car, no matter what HP/aero package. Especially when there are no cautions all day.

IMO, the only "bad" races are the ones cut short by rain, or something dumb like running restrictor plates at Loudon. It's unrealistic to expect every race to be a barnburner.
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It was bad enough in my opinion that I never paid to see another race at MIS. Worked a bunch, got to see a few for free, but never paid for a ticket there since.
 
Formerjackman said:
It was bad enough in my opinion that I never paid to see another race at MIS. Worked a bunch, got to see a few for free, but never paid for a ticket there since.
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Yeah, it's certainly not one of my favorite tracks, but one of the best things about the new car is how well it runs at the intermediates. They just need to figure out the short track package (more HP, less tire, do something with the trans/gear) and everyone would be happy.

I just think it's a joke for NASCAR to talk about cost cutting, yet they spend millions to build a temporary track inside a football stadium and convert Bristol into a dirt race once a year. The owners want a bigger piece of the track/TV revenue, and they are told to spend less. But apparently that line of thinking doesn't apply to NASCAR.
 
Formerjackman said:
It was bad enough in my opinion that I never paid to see another race at MIS. Worked a bunch, got to see a few for free, but never paid for a ticket there since.
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the new car had a banger of a race last year at MIS.
 
Formerjackman said:
I have absolutely NO problem with that, my only issue is some of the venue choices. The choice needs to be those venues that offer the best experience and compliment the attributes ( or lack of) of the Cup cars, not just for business expediency. If the racing action on the track is not the PRIMARY reason people are showing up, then something is VERY wrong.
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I don't know about this.....If racing was the primary reason for people showing up...How many do you think would show up? I am asking that honestly without snark. How many true racing fans are left? Those who appreciate the cars and crews as much as they appreciate the drivers? Who love the sound and smell? NASCAR is trying to reinvent itself. There is resistance to downsizing, and to offset that inevitably, they are trying to fill the hole with an "experience." Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but how realistic are we being?
 
We all have our own opinions...
Last year's ROVAL at Charlotte was a sucktackular suckfest. In person. Super sucked. Period.
 
Formerjackman said:
I have absolutely NO problem with that, my only issue is some of the venue choices. The choice needs to be those venues that offer the best experience and compliment the attributes ( or lack of) of the Cup cars, not just for business expediency. If the racing action on the track is not the PRIMARY reason people are showing up, then something is VERY wrong.
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I don't mind standalone road courses, but I really do not enjoy "Rovals" at all. They (the tracks themselves) just seem kind of sterile and lacking personality when watching on TV.
 
Revman said:
I don't know about this.....If racing was the primary reason for people showing up...How many do you think would show up? I am asking that honestly without snark. How many true racing fans are left? Those who appreciate the cars and crews as much as they appreciate the drivers? Who love the sound and smell? NASCAR is trying to reinvent itself. There is resistance to downsizing, and to offset that inevitably, they are trying to fill the hole with an "experience." Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but how realistic are we being?
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Maybe if NASCAR was offering a better product, people would want to show up JUST for the racing again, regardless of whether there was a concert or God knows what else. I'm not against doing things that enhance the overall fan experience and making people feel like they got a bigger bang for their buck, but I want people to show up because of the RACE. Everything else is just icing on the cake. That's been the biggest burr up my ass about street course racing. Nobody really even pretends it's about the racing, and even IF they are commercially successful, it just saddens me that the party is a bigger deal than the race, and I think it's ultimately a dead end for the sport. Why not just skip the race and have street parties?
 
Formerjackman said:
Maybe if NASCAR was offering a better product, people would want to show up JUST for the racing again, regardless of whether there was a concert or God knows what else. I'm not against doing things that enhance the overall fan experience and making people feel like they got a bigger bang for their buck, but I want people to show up because of the RACE. Everything else is just icing on the cake. That's been the biggest burr up my ass about street course racing. Nobody really even pretends it's about the racing, and even IF they are commercially successful, it just saddens me that the party is a bigger deal than the race, and I think it's ultimately a dead end for the sport. Why not just skip the race and have street parties?
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Well which is it?
 
Formerjackman said:
Maybe if NASCAR was offering a better product, people would want to show up JUST for the racing again, regardless of whether there was a concert or God knows what else. I'm not against doing things that enhance the overall fan experience and making people feel like they got a bigger bang for their buck, but I want people to show up because of the RACE. Everything else is just icing on the cake. That's been the biggest burr up my ass about street course racing. Nobody really even pretends it's about the racing, and even IF they are commercially successful, it just saddens me that the party is a bigger deal than the race, and I think it's ultimately a dead end for the sport. Why not just skip the race and have street parties?
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Maybe racing isn't a thing anymore.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
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I am struck by the stark contrast of the late rally driver Craig Breen who broke into tears more than once by the sheer joy of driving. This pisses me off.
 
Revman said:
How does it help the series that puts money in these guys' pockets to **** talk the competition? Come watch this....it sucks. SMDH.
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I say good for them. I mean they could have said no comment or avoided answering but that would've spoken even louder imo.
 
If the team owners wanted more horsepower there would be more horsepower. Yates said 750 is doable without too much cost, any more than that and they will be going thru more engines. Unless the money increased to cover it, it ain't happening. On the other hand, deathbedders are doing their loudest best to bad mouth the series anyway possible and bring down the attendance and the ratings. It's a cluster.
 
The cars are carrying around 500 lbs of lead ballast to make the minimum 3300 without fuel and driver.

Easy diet … just like adding power.
 
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