lets fix nascar,because they are to dumb to do it.

Jorge De Guzman said:
for some reason my years might be off but I remember them (the drivers) complaining about dirty air way back when they had these generation of cars. They could catch a guy, but couldnt make the pass... the car would get tight and lose acceleration. But maybe like I said my years are off.
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Want to know a way to solve that? Here ya go. I present the NASCAR Gen 8 car.

E83026AA-A3F2-4952-A721-B0D2907A397E.jpeg
 
Greg said:
You can't get everything you want and nothing is perfect.

I just wish they had more HP on tracks 1.5 miles or smaller and the RC's and most importantly tire wear that falls off more than they currently do. It should be significant enough to make more agreessive short pitting a worthwhile option.

When tire wear becomes a bigger factor the cars can pass each other regardless the generation of cars. Most everyone ran in the mid 21 sec range at Martinsville for the entire fuel range, passing will always limited when there are no closing speeds.

Tire wear creates the comers and goers, the classic less experienced rabbits getting schooled by seasoned veteran etc. during a long green rum. It allows the the best racing stories to happen organically, without any need to hype it up. The good stuff people talk about all week on the internet or like they did at the water coolers in the "good old days".
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Its tough, you have tracks where tire fall off is 1 - 3 seconds and you get comers and goers but eventually pit strategies even that out and you end up with someone with new tires that has to come from 20th or so and they just cant make it happen. Its fun watching them try though. Is more HP the answer? Not sure, you will do more to separate those from the front of the field that normally cant hang on due to technology or lack of talent.
 
A tire laying up against the wall when teams had around 100 laps on their tires made the teams decide to pit or not and the race was won with two tires over the second place car that didn't pit and was on older tires. If tires weren't a factor in Martinsville I don't know what was. A number of cars blew tires and ate the wall, some spun all by themselves. I wasn't paying that much attention, I would tune back in for the restarts, I'm not that great a fan of short tracks, but even I noticed they had pretty good tires for Martinsville under them I thought.
 
StandOnIt said:
A tire laying up against the wall when teams had around 100 laps on their tires made the teams decide to pit or not and the race was won with two tires over the second place car that didn't pit and was on older tires. If tires weren't a factor in Martinsville I don't know what was. A number of cars blew tires and ate the wall, some spun all by themselves. I wasn't paying that much attention, I would tune back in for the restarts, I'm not that great a fan of short tracks, but even I noticed they had pretty good tires for Martinsville under them I thought.
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Not sure that the tires were as much of a factor as track position was.
 
Greg said:
You can't get everything you want and nothing is perfect.

I just wish they had more HP on tracks 1.5 miles or smaller and the RC's and most importantly tire wear that falls off more than they currently do. It should be significant enough to make more agreessive short pitting a worthwhile option.

When tire wear becomes a bigger factor the cars can pass each other regardless the generation of cars. Most everyone ran in the mid 21 sec range at Martinsville for the entire fuel range, passing will always limited when there are no closing speeds.

Tire wear creates the comers and goers, the classic less experienced rabbits getting schooled by seasoned veteran etc. during a long green rum. It allows the the best racing stories to happen organically, without any need to hype it up. The good stuff people talk about all week on the internet or like they did at the water coolers in the "good old days".
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Start small. Increase HP all tracks. Leave aero alone. See what happens. I like to see drivers shift, also like off throttle time
 
670 HP is plenty … if your car weighs 2,800 pounds. Nextgen minimum weight without fuel and driver is 3,300 lbs.

The Garage 56 entry reportedly weighs 2,960 lbs. and the engine is an “up-rated“ version of the 750 HP variant previously used in Cup competition.

Maybe they’ll lose the fat at some point in the future.
 
aunty dive said:
670 HP is plenty … if your car weighs 2,800 pounds. Nextgen minimum weight without fuel and driver is 3,300 lbs.

The Garage 56 entry reportedly weighs 2,960 lbs. and the engine is an up-rated version of the 750 HP variant previously used in Cup competition.

Maybe they’ll lose the fat at some point in the future.
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That last line is my goal...
 
It wont happen but go back to a narrower tire. ~I believe~ the new tires have a 1.5 wider contact patch than the old ones. I wont pretend to know scientifically how much more grip the new tires have but I gotta imagine it would help losing some off it.
 
i started this thread mainly to talk about making each car a little different to help the racing. and most everyone.is still stuck on making changes, horse power, different tires ,dates of races,all of these still just make all the cars the same, it just like a pony ride.
 
2 Sweet said:
"I've got it! Let's waste millions of dollars to bring in dirt and bastardize one of the greatest tracks on the circuit, instead of racing at an actual dirt track! Who cares if we run on Easter Sunday when it's 52 degrees and a 70% chance of rain that time of year? Wait, you mean we could simply move the asphalt spring race to May or June and run it on a Saturday night? IMPOSSIBLE! Converting Bristol into a dirt track will change everything!" says NASCAR.
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I feel like you're drawing the wrong conclusion here. I suspect the answer is that East Tennesee can only support one Cup race, and the Bristol night race is the one they'd rather support. Two races at one track should be the exception, not the norm. There are plenty of places for the sport to go.
 
acmerocket said:
i started this thread mainly to talk about making each car a little different to help the racing. and most everyone.is still stuck on making changes, horse power, different tires ,dates of races,all of these still just make all the cars the same, it just like a pony ride.
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Well I guess they can all still pick their noses again.
 
The Nature Boy said:
I feel like you're drawing the wrong conclusion here. I suspect the answer is that East Tennesee can only support one Cup race, and the Bristol night race is the one they'd rather support. Two races at one track should be the exception, not the norm. There are plenty of places for the sport to go.
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Perhaps, but personally, I don't feel that's the case. That's what they initially thought about Darlington, and look what happened. There are a handful of tracks on the schedule good enough to deserve two dates, and Bristol is absolutely one of them, IMO.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe you're right. Only one way to find out. They tried sticking with the date while adding dirt, and apparently decided it's not worth it. I just feel like they need to give the spring race a chance at a Saturday night in May and see how it turns out before they kick it off the schedule.

Revman said:
What we could do is STFU about it, and enjoy what we have?
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This is a message board. We talk about the sport we love, and we discuss ways we think it could improve. It's OK to enjoy NASCAR, and also wish it could be better.
 
2 Sweet said:
Perhaps, but personally, I don't feel that's the case. That's what they initially thought about Darlington, and look what happened. There are a handful of tracks on the schedule good enough to deserve two dates, and Bristol is absolutely one of them, IMO.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe you're right. Only one way to find out. They tried sticking with the date while adding dirt, and apparently decided it's not worth it. I just feel like they need to give the spring race a chance at a Saturday night in May and see how it turns out before they kick it off the schedule.



This is a message board. We talk about the sport we love, and we discuss ways we think it could improve. It's OK to enjoy NASCAR, and also wish it could be better.
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It’d be a tough pill to swallow as a fan where the show only goes to Bristol once a year. I can’t fathom that, the racing there is just so great, I don’t care about people showing up....I just want them to race there twice a year.
 
Revman said:
What we could do is STFU about it, and enjoy what we have?
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I don't know or remember when you came to the sport, but for somebody like me who personally witnessed the growth of the sport from relative obscurity to unbelievable highs and now back to something that would be lucky to be 1/3 as popular as it was at it's peak, it's VERY hard to just stand by and say "It's all OK, these people know exactly what they are doing, all is well". I'm sorry, but it's just not in my nature to just stand by and watch something I deeply love just go down the toilet without registering complaint. There are realistically probably 30 different reasons why NASCAR has fallen from the mountaintop, and some of them are probably not fixable by ANYONE, but I personally feel like about half of them ARE fixable if the decision makers in the sport would pull their head out of their asses. On a daily basis, I see VERY LITTLE that gives me confidence in these people's judgement or decisions. These people can't even get the response to a garage door pull rope correct.
 
LibertyU24 said:
View attachment 70091I took that yesterday. That Billboard is there on RT 115 outside of Wilksboro.
One good thing Nascar has done was bringing Nascar back to Wilksboro.
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I would agree 100%, but Marcus Smith and Dale Jr. did all the heavy lifting on this deal. All NASCAR did was read public opinion and agree to letting it happen. Unprovoked, I'm fairly confident not one person in NASCAR management would have even SUGGESTED this as a possible idea.
 
Formerjackman said:
I don't know or remember when you came to the sport, but for somebody like me who personally witnessed the growth of the sport from relative obscurity to unbelievable highs and now back to something that would be lucky to be 1/3 as popular as it was at it's peak, it's VERY hard to just stand by and say "It's all OK, these people know exactly what they are doing, all is well". I'm sorry, but it's just not in my nature to just stand by and watch something I deeply love just go down the toilet without registering complaint. There are realistically probably 30 different reasons why NASCAR has fallen from the mountaintop, and some of them are probably not fixable by ANYONE, but I personally feel like about half of them ARE fixable if the decision makers in the sport would pull their head out of their asses. On a daily basis, I see VERY LITTLE that gives me confidence in these people's judgement or decisions. These people can't even get the response to a garage door pull rope correct.
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Fine. I too am disappointed to watch a sport that I also love slowly circulating the drain due to poor management decisions. In my experience, trying to deal with corporate fat-cats - particularly from the outside - solves nothing, but it does make me feel worse.

Here we have final decisionmakers who have no (or little) boots-on-the-ground experience themselves. They do employ some people (at lower levels) who were racers, but the major power is with the suits. If the suits decide to entertain outside opinion, they prefer to talk to rich team owners. The corporate culture has been rule-from-above since NASCAR was founded -- racers are independent contractors. That worked okay when top management came from a racing background itself (Big Bill France) but as time went on management got taken over by suits.

I know you're probably aware of all of that, but I'm trying to make the point that big corporations with management that has little direct experience in producing its own product are going to continue to think that they know the best about stuff - even when they are clearly failing. Currently NASCAR is turning itself into IROC, and top management fails to notice what happened to IROC.

I would love it if NASCAR went back to their original business model: race cars built off of actual production cars, hard narrow tires, and enough latitude in the rules to allow mechanical talent to shine through (as well as driving talent). I embrace all of the safety improvements. And, although difficult, technology rules that are policed to minimize the impact of cubic dollars. I'd like drivers and crews who aren't white-washed due to corporate interests. There's no way that we could quickly go back to "the good ol' days", but steps in that direction would be appreciated.

The fat-cats only look at their own revenue. They already are rich enough that ego and greed are bigger motivators than concerns about feeding their families or paying for their monthly necessities - they can walk away today and still live high on the hog. How do we little guys compete with that?

I don't fight fat-cats any more. I walk away from them and find better battlefields. Local tracks, although they have their own problems, still usually can be worked with.
 
They pull away from the fans that made them. Just because someone has a marketing degree doesn't necessarily make them any good at it.
 
LibertyU24 said:
They pull away from the fans that made them. Just because someone has a marketing degree doesn't necessarily make them any good at it.
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You can say that again. I see this often in businesses i deal with. People are plugged into positions because they have a degree that's supposed to qualify them. Real life rarely imitates hypothetical learning.
I honestly don't think the people in charge at Nascar are fans of the sport. It's why they seem so rudderless and reactionary. I'm sure they want to make fans happy. The problem is they don't have a clue how because they are not fans themselves.
 
The Nature Boy said:
I feel like you're drawing the wrong conclusion here. I suspect the answer is that East Tennesee can only support one Cup race, and the Bristol night race is the one they'd rather support. Two races at one track should be the exception, not the norm. There are plenty of places for the sport to go.
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You may be right but I am thinking the 1990s attendance for the Bristol night race alone was more than what both of the current races are getting.
I also am thinking the track configuration(s) havd changed more than the Eastern Tennessee demographics.
 
IMO Race car drivers have always been notorious gripes that are bitter with a chip on the shoulder. To put it kindly the fan base is also a bunch of gripes too, it has always been the way. It is all just amplified now via the internet.

During the factory days Ford and Dodge were constantly fighting with fans following along and choosing sides. I can remember my uncles and my Dads circle of friends always crying about how badly their brand was treated.

When Petty dominated in the 70s the gripe was that he got the most support (which was a legitimate gripe). When Earnhart, Gordon, and Johnson dominated, people believed they were getting away with more too.

It never stops and it is just something that will never change. The same has been true with most of the local tracks I have been associated with as well.

Racing fans are passionate, and you just can't take the gripes and complaints away from them, it is in their DNA. At least racing fans are passionate enough to care.

Loud racing is the only peace and quite you will ever get from them....... and that's okay at least it might as well be, because no one has the power to change it.
 
The buddy I went to the dirt sprint races for years. We never whined about anything and sometimes it was a crowd we were in sitting in turn 4 and it was a fun time. We would guess about who was going to win but that was about it. We knew 4 teams that raced so after the race we would go somewhere to eat. We enjoyed the hell out of the races and were excited when the big guns came to race at the track. Likewise with another friend who he and I had season tickets to Texas Speedway. We would drive down, stay the night for both days and we had a ball. Sometimes 4 of us would pile in the car and head to Kansas. 4 years of the Chili Bowl tickets were the same way, party time. I never encountered so many racing whiney asses until I started posted here. The internet is to blame for that. It looks like from the crowd pics that a lot of fans are doing the same thing I used to do.
 
gone said:
You're not going to "fix" NASCAR from the outside - particularly by complaining - just like you can't "fix" any other large corporation.
If you are somehow able to get hired into their upper management then you might have a shot, but otherwise you are only "noise".
And you need to realize that your concept of "fix" is unlikely to agree with a lot of other peoples' concepts of "fix", so no matter what you manage to accomplish you will draw the wrath of those others.

If you do not already have a proven track record of "fixing" other large racing series, you will not get any significant attention from NASCAR management. Even if you did have that experience, NASCAR is still a family business so you'd have to find a way to join the family too. It's much easier to complain and make demands on a public forum than to actually do this job, and a whole lot less risky too.

NASCAR is big and has its own momentum. It's going to go its own way... maybe it can "fix" itself, maybe not.

All we can do is either buy their product, and support their sponsors, or not. As with most big corporations, revenue is king. If NASCAR notices that it is losing enough revenue, maybe it will consider "fixes". However, it's still unlikely that they will listen to spectators. They might listen to some owners and main players of their teams, or they may hire consultants (who may be worthless), or they may decide (per usual these days) that they can figure it all out themselves. But they've proven many times that instead of listening to critical fans they prefer to try to tell the fans what they should want and accept.

Sorry if you don't like this, but your options are limited. You can sit back and tolerate it, or you can vote with your feet (go to a different racing series, or even quit watching racing altogether). Yelling at NASCAR, particularly through a third party website like this one, is only going to raise your own blood pressure.
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Well said. NASCAR is a victim of institutional thinking. "This is the way we've always done it...nothing else could possibly be better."

Then they created this box of garbage Gen 7 car. It's WAAAAAAY worse than the COT.

But I'm too old to have a valid opinion. Some of this boards members need to go look that word up. Opinion. One is no more right or wrong than another.
 
Greg said:
You can't get everything you want and nothing is perfect.

I just wish they had more HP on tracks 1.5 miles or smaller and the RC's and most importantly tire wear that falls off more than they currently do. It should be significant enough to make more agreessive short pitting a worthwhile option.

When tire wear becomes a bigger factor the cars can pass each other regardless the generation of cars. Most everyone ran in the mid 21 sec range at Martinsville for the entire fuel range, passing will always limited when there are no closing speeds.

Tire wear creates the comers and goers, the classic less experienced rabbits getting schooled by seasoned veteran etc. during a long green rum. It allows the the best racing stories to happen organically, without any need to hype it up. The good stuff people talk about all week on the internet or like they did at the water coolers in the "good old days".
Click to expand...
 
It's the old conundrum --
"You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."

NASCAR is damned if they do and damned if they don't. I'm just happy I have racing to watch.
 
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