NASCAR announces 2019 MENCS rules

Spotter22 said:
Same crap I heard when the stages idea came up, people crying and whining but then just like that, they loved it. Never understood people who prejudge something they've never seen.
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Idk who here loves the stages, if there are any it's probably few. I don't love them but I definitely have grown to accept them as part of the points system that ultimately builds into the playoffs. They will forever completely suck for ruining the organic nature of the races though.

Someone on Reddit posted this, and I think it sort of echoes what a lot of us here believe and why we're so pessimistic about next year:

"Cup cars should be monstrous powerhouses that demand respect. Idling around most tracks with a half-dead engine and a million pounds of downforce is just wrong on principle."
 
Spotter22 said:
Who said dont discuss? Its already being crapped on, thats my point.
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I see the entire thing as a difference in philosophy between different groups. There is no right or wrong just a personal preference. Plenty of people have listed concerns about 2019 and I think that is fine.
 
DUN24 said:
It's hilarious that I can say that the racing has been fantastic and I'll get called a death bedder. Pretty sure I'm not the one advocating completely overhauling how the sport races.
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Indeed. I'm seeing some people criticizing others for prejudging the new package negatively not because they have been neutral on the subject, but because they prejudged the package positively from the beginning and were in favor of major changes. They tend to view the low downforce racing of 2017 and 2018 less positively, and criticize it for lack of lead changes, larger margins of victory, etc. The "something must be done" crowd, as opposed to the "why aren't we talking about how good the racing is right now?" crowd.

Differing opinions on what kind of racing is desired are fine. I prefer to leave it at that and debate the merits. Those who prefer to "wait and see" have a valid approach too, though there isn't much to talk about there.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Idk who here loves the stages, if there are any it's probably few. I don't love them but I definitely have grown to accept them as part of the points system that ultimately builds into the playoffs. They will forever completely suck for ruining the organic nature of the races though.

Someone on Reddit posted this, and I think it sort of echoes what a lot of us here believe and why we're so pessimistic about next year:

"Cup cars should be monstrous powerhouses that demand respect. Idling around most tracks with a half-dead engine and a million pounds of downforce is just wrong on principle."
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The stages have been an overwhelming success and the "few" you mention are the ones who dont like it. Who cares what some yahoo on Reddit says, damn sure isnt me. "Organic nature of racing"? No such thing. Times change and time marches on.
 
IanMcVittie said:
I think if Johnnie Cochran was describing the difference between the fans of 2019 rules and 2018 rules it would be something like this.
“2019 wants the show and 2018 wants the go.”

I am not quibbling with anyone’s preference toward the show but I dont think they understand that there is no way the new rules can be made right with the “go” crowd. It isn’t because of obstinance but it is about fundamentals.
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You may want to consider that Nascar grew up making the show fans very happy.
Once they decided to go with the "GO" crowd, they have been shrinking every year.
Want to know why?? Because the "GO" crowd will never be satisfied.
I sure look forward to seeing the racing change and see what the drivers can do rather than the engineers.
 
gnomesayin said:
Indeed. I'm seeing some people criticizing others for prejudging the new package negatively not because they have been neutral on the subject, but because they prejudged the package positively from the beginning and were in favor of major changes. They tend to view the low downforce racing of 2017 and 2018 less positively, and criticize it for lack of lead changes, larger margins of victory, etc.

Differing opinions on what kind of racing is desired are fine. I prefer to leave it at that and debate the merits. Those who prefer to "wait and see" have a valid approach too, though there isn't much to talk about there.
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yep. that is about half of it. I see other forms of racing where top speed is the end all goal, they are restricted though, all forms of motorsport are limited in what they can do, even many classes of land speed cars and the F-1 races bore the hell out of me, besides the tiny motors screaming gives me a headache. I happen to believe that less speed and less aero will bring more side by side racing to the sport. That is one of the reasons fans like the short track racing. If that can be replicated at the other tracks of varying sizes, I don't care how fast or how much money they have to spend to get that last aero advantage out of the car to do so. I think people are kidding themselves if they think the leaders in the sport are suddenly going to be backmarkers, but I sure would like to see more of what I saw last week at Martinsville on other tracks and BTW they might have been doing 90?
 
StandOnIt said:
well we just had a discussion about the most important part of the suspension. And Goodyear has been tire testing with the new package, drivers said they had fall off and they had to drive it at Atlanta. I keep my nose up for these things. Couple of very small clips one can interpret it any way they want to about the test they had there, but I do believe tires will be one of the big keys as to how these packages work. Johnson guessed entry speeds were in the 180 range going into the corners FWIW plenty fast to me. This was the non duct package, supposed to be the low HP I believe. (and I never believe Nascar HP numbers)
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And this is why I never believe Nascar HP numbers that some are so concerned about. They have a mule engine they get their figures from..the teams don't play that

 
Spotter22 said:
The stages have been an overwhelming success and the "few" you mention are the ones who dont like it. Who cares what some yahoo on Reddit says, damn sure isnt me. "Organic nature of racing"? No such thing. Times change and time marches on.
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I don't really talk NASCAR outside of here (most of my real life friends hate it) so I can't speak for anything except what I've seen on RF. The stages are not beloved here, I'd say neutral at best.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if there's anything NASCAR can do that you wouldn't agree with. You're batting .1000 as far as I can recall.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
I don't really talk NASCAR outside of here (most of my real life friends hate it) so I can't speak for anything except what I've seen on RF. The stages are not beloved here, I'd say neutral at best.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if there's anything NASCAR can do that you wouldn't agree with. You're batting .1000 as far as I can recall.
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I would say the opposite applies to many on here they don't seem to like much of anything. Of course everybody has their own reasons. I was for the latest chase when it was announced, sounded good on paper I thought. I think the thing stinks after I saw it.
I think the stages have improved the viewing a bit. Would like to see even more commercials removed from the actual racing, but the stage breaks have helped somewhat with that along with producing more long runs of racing.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
I don't really talk NASCAR outside of here (most of my real life friends hate it) so I can't speak for anything except what I've seen on RF. The stages are not beloved here, I'd say neutral at best.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if there's anything NASCAR can do that you wouldn't agree with. You're batting .1000 as far as I can recall.
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You're wrong. Its probably because I understand the sport from both sides and dont make knee jerk reactions to every single thing that comes along. People worry about stuff that really shouldnt concern them at all. Its supposed to be fun, relax, have a beer, hang out with friends and enjoy yourself. Social media is the ruination of the sport, its beat and disected to death by people who dont know jack squat who tell other people the same who pass it on to others.
 
Spotter22 said:
Social media is the ruination of the sport, its beat and disected to death by people who dont know jack squat who tell other people the same who pass it on to others.
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If that's the case (and you could certainly make one), I wish sports were the most significant thing social media has ruined.
 
Spotter22 said:
Social media is the ruination of the sport, its beat and disected to death by people who dont know jack squat who tell other people the same who pass it on to
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Word.
 
Like Charlie I will start watching the races next year and make my mind up as to what I think of things after a period of time.
 
StandOnIt said:
so could be is the same as are.. right?
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If you restrict HP to a level below what Xfinity cars run, and pack on a bunch of additional downforce and drag, it reasons that a Cup car would be slower...if that's what the garage talk is right now I'm not sure how it could pan out any differently unless they also alter the Xfinity cars.
 
FLRacingFan said:
If you restrict HP to a level below what Xfinity cars run, and pack on a bunch of additional downforce and drag, it reasons that a Cup car would be slower...if that's what the garage talk is right now I'm not sure how it could pan out any differently unless they also alter the Xfinity cars.
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If you believe the HP numbers that Nascar puts out with it's mule motor is the same that teams will have I guess you can come up with that. Many years ago in the truck series Nascar dyno'd the engines in the trucks. They found that Toyota had over 40HP more then the next manufacturer after they found and pulled off the magnet that limited the gas feed. For a closer explanation, the spec motor they have in trucks now was supposed to have over 40 HP more than what everybody was running. Bret Moffitt has won 4 races this year running a Toyota motor. It's hogwash to believe the figures Nascar is saying IMO. Just like the latest Cup package was supposed to be slower with the tapered spacer and so much harder to drive(slower) so much nonsense.
 
StandOnIt said:
Just like the latest Cup package was supposed to be slower with the tapered spacer and so much harder to drive(slower) so much nonsense.
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SOI, not to argue with you nor try to change your mind, but I just want to point out that the current rules were intended to be slower in the corners (less downforce, partially offset by softer tires) but quicker acceleration and top speed (due to less drag). Also, more fall off with the softer tires, so the lower cornering speeds become more pronounced as a tire stint progresses. And these intended effects have proved out; it's not nonsense.

Having said all that, I intend to tune in and check it out, as you suggest, and probably attend a race, before locking into a final opinion.
 
They were intended to be slower overall when they went to the tapered spacer, that was supposed to knock the bottom out of horsepower and reduce speeds. It didn't, the teams got it all back and then some.The horsepower figures that Nascar puts out are nonsense, not only that after the teams get thru messing with the cars and they already are and they learn how to trim them out, I seriously doubt the speeds will be that much slower. Hardly at all with one of the packages they will use on the smaller tracks. Might even be faster.
 
Jimmie Johnson was at the Atlanta Goodyear tire test on Tuesday driving a Chevrolet wheel-force car. He was asked about what’s different from inside the car with the 2019 rules package

“This is unlike anything I’ve experienced over my years in Cup,” Johnson said. “I had only a couple of years in the Busch Series and even there we had more power. I had very, very few starts in a Late Model stock, and in some respects with the size of the track and throttle response, it reminds me of that. So it is a far different power curve and acceleration sensation inside the car.

“We’re used to having the horsepower underneath our foot to accelerate up off the turn and you can’t even feel the accel now. You’re at a high speed. You lift to half throttle and you put it back down, you don’t feel the car pick up.”
 
well here are some quotes below that can be read from the site and the author that wrote them
Johnson
"With how cool it was this morning, the lower horsepower and the bigger downforce package, I wasn't sure how much we'd lift and if we would lift at all," Johnson said. "Atlanta Motor Speedway's track surface is abrasive and we had assumed that you would have to at some point. It wasn't many laps a run that you had to lift."
"We feel like we have an idea of the way things will go, but it's still not all that clear yet," Johnson said. "None of us know. We're all speculating."
Blaney

Two-time cup series winner Ryan Blaney said the high level of tire wear, an element that Atlanta Motor Speedway's older asphalt has become known for, will make for dynamic racing when the 2019 package debuts at the Folds of Honor QuikTrip 500 on February 24.
"I feel like there's going to be some comers and goers when tires fall off. How well you run will be a matter of how well you take care of your tires throughout a run and your car has to handle well," Blaney said. "You're not just flat-out, wide-open around here."

Jones
"That's what makes Atlanta cool and that's what I've really enjoyed about it in the past," added Erik Jones, who also tested the 2019 package at Charlotte Motor Speedway one week ago.

http://www.atlantamotorspeedway.com...-school-during-test-for-2019-package-ams.html
 
The point about Johnson’s comments are being completely missed. It has nothing to do about the race and everything to do about the restrictor plate attributes of the car. How many laps is it going to take these dogs to get up to speed?
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Jimmie Johnson was at the Atlanta Goodyear tire test on Tuesday driving a Chevrolet wheel-force car. He was asked about what’s different from inside the car with the 2019 rules package

“This is unlike anything I’ve experienced over my years in Cup,” Johnson said. “I had only a couple of years in the Busch Series and even there we had more power. I had very, very few starts in a Late Model stock, and in some respects with the size of the track and throttle response, it reminds me of that. So it is a far different power curve and acceleration sensation inside the car.

“We’re used to having the horsepower underneath our foot to accelerate up off the turn and you can’t even feel the accel now. You’re at a high speed. You lift to half throttle and you put it back down, you don’t feel the car pick up.”
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Hey look! It's just like what all of us know-nothing race fans who shouldn't share our uneducated opinions because we have never talked on a two-way radio have been saying!

How about that...
 
StandOnIt said:
well here are some quotes below that can be read from the site and the author that wrote them
Johnson
"With how cool it was this morning, the lower horsepower and the bigger downforce package, I wasn't sure how much we'd lift and if we would lift at all," Johnson said. "Atlanta Motor Speedway's track surface is abrasive and we had assumed that you would have to at some point. It wasn't many laps a run that you had to lift."
"We feel like we have an idea of the way things will go, but it's still not all that clear yet," Johnson said. "None of us know. We're all speculating."
Blaney

Two-time cup series winner Ryan Blaney said the high level of tire wear, an element that Atlanta Motor Speedway's older asphalt has become known for, will make for dynamic racing when the 2019 package debuts at the Folds of Honor QuikTrip 500 on February 24.
"I feel like there's going to be some comers and goers when tires fall off. How well you run will be a matter of how well you take care of your tires throughout a run and your car has to handle well," Blaney said. "You're not just flat-out, wide-open around here."

Jones
"That's what makes Atlanta cool and that's what I've really enjoyed about it in the past," added Erik Jones, who also tested the 2019 package at Charlotte Motor Speedway one week ago.

http://www.atlantamotorspeedway.com...-school-during-test-for-2019-package-ams.html
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Atlanta is a cool race track that will only be partially ruined with this rules package.


Let's have the drivers test at Homestead, Kansas, Fontana, etc and hear what they have to say...
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Jimmie Johnson was at the Atlanta Goodyear tire test on Tuesday driving a Chevrolet wheel-force car. He was asked about what’s different from inside the car with the 2019 rules package

“This is unlike anything I’ve experienced over my years in Cup,” Johnson said. “I had only a couple of years in the Busch Series and even there we had more power. I had very, very few starts in a Late Model stock, and in some respects with the size of the track and throttle response, it reminds me of that. So it is a far different power curve and acceleration sensation inside the car.

“We’re used to having the horsepower underneath our foot to accelerate up off the turn and you can’t even feel the accel now. You’re at a high speed. You lift to half throttle and you put it back down, you don’t feel the car pick up.”
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It's always good when you're running with less power than Busch Series cars from two decades ago and drivers can't feel the acceleration. :sarcasm:

Shark-jumping moment for sure.
 
Maybe Steve Grissom or one of the Green brothers could race one of their old Busch cars against next year’s cup cars in an exhibition race. That would be fun!
 
StandOnIt said:
well here are some quotes below that can be read from the site and the author that wrote them
Johnson
"With how cool it was this morning, the lower horsepower and the bigger downforce package, I wasn't sure how much we'd lift and if we would lift at all," Johnson said. "Atlanta Motor Speedway's track surface is abrasive and we had assumed that you would have to at some point. It wasn't many laps a run that you had to lift."
"We feel like we have an idea of the way things will go, but it's still not all that clear yet," Johnson said. "None of us know. We're all speculating."
Blaney

Two-time cup series winner Ryan Blaney said the high level of tire wear, an element that Atlanta Motor Speedway's older asphalt has become known for, will make for dynamic racing when the 2019 package debuts at the Folds of Honor QuikTrip 500 on February 24.
"I feel like there's going to be some comers and goers when tires fall off. How well you run will be a matter of how well you take care of your tires throughout a run and your car has to handle well," Blaney said. "You're not just flat-out, wide-open around here."

Jones
"That's what makes Atlanta cool and that's what I've really enjoyed about it in the past," added Erik Jones, who also tested the 2019 package at Charlotte Motor Speedway one week ago.

http://www.atlantamotorspeedway.com...-school-during-test-for-2019-package-ams.html
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Uh, isn't SMI going to repave Atlanta?
 
DUN24 said:
Hey look! It's just like what all of us know-nothing race fans who shouldn't share our uneducated opinions because we have never talked on a two-way radio have been saying!

How about that...
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I don't need a hard card to decide what I find entertaining from the grandstands or the living room.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Jimmie Johnson was at the Atlanta Goodyear tire test on Tuesday driving a Chevrolet wheel-force car. He was asked about what’s different from inside the car with the 2019 rules package

“This is unlike anything I’ve experienced over my years in Cup,” Johnson said. “I had only a couple of years in the Busch Series and even there we had more power. I had very, very few starts in a Late Model stock, and in some respects with the size of the track and throttle response, it reminds me of that. So it is a far different power curve and acceleration sensation inside the car.

“We’re used to having the horsepower underneath our foot to accelerate up off the turn and you can’t even feel the accel now. You’re at a high speed. You lift to half throttle and you put it back down, you don’t feel the car pick up.”
Click to expand...

A Reddit post with no link. :dunce:
 
The best stock car racers in the world are about to be driving 3400 lb bricks with no throttle response. All in the name of "side by side racing" lmfaoooo
 
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StandOnIt said:
once in a decade? last lap lead changes on a short track is that significant? It's rare I know that much. It was a good race, glad I got to see it.
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Refer to point 4: A New Sensation.

Jesus Christ.
 
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