NASCAR announces 2019 MENCS rules

misery loves company it seems. Can't wait for next year, glad I watched the other two series race at a snails pace all over the track. :p

All three races were fine. Cup doesn't need to be Busch Light. Who the hell is miserable? You're the one disappointed in the show.
 
LOL I was gonna say, he finished 6th with a car that was buried on the speed chart all weekend, he must've gotten up on the wheel pretty good.

I'd bet that every single one of those guys in the field was thinking exactly what he happened to say, and that includes the winner.

Texas used to be near the top of my list of places I wanted to go for a race, but after yesterday it's firmly at the bottom.

I didn't even think the race was as bad as people say. I enjoyed it
 
I fell asleep for about 15 laps in stage one and when I woke up, I don't believe the running order in the top 10 had changed one bit.
 
I didn't even think the race was as bad as people say. I enjoyed it
So did I.

Races sufficient in length to require 1 or more pit-stops cannot supply the kind of “action” seemingly required to satisfy many racefans. Nor can they be successfully manipulated to do so. That is obvious given the many unsuccessful attempts made by the sanctioning body to do that over the past several seasons.

You can’t wash dirty air and it will still be dirty at 175 mph. If you’re bored now, wait till the total lack of a reasonable amount of throttle response hits the competitive end of the field every Sunday afternoon.
 
So did I.

Races sufficient in length to require 1 or more pit-stops cannot supply the kind of “action” seemingly required to satisfy many racefans. Nor can they be successfully manipulated to do so. That is obvious given the many unsuccessful attempts made by the sanctioning body to do so over the past several seasons.

You can’t wash dirty air and it will still be dirty at 175 mph.
So how do you explain on 30k in attendance?
 
I won't even try to explain the low attendance.
I do know that the weather was perfect for the opening weekend of deer season.
As to why people didn't attend --- I have no clue. But it doesn't affect my enjoyment and pleasure
at watching the race.

And questions about the attendance belong more properly in the Death Bed or TV ratings thread.
 
So did I.

Races sufficient in length to require 1 or more pit-stops cannot supply the kind of “action” seemingly required to satisfy many racefans. Nor can they be successfully manipulated to do so. That is obvious given the many unsuccessful attempts made by the sanctioning body to do that over the past several seasons.

You can’t wash dirty air and it will still be dirty at 175 mph. If you’re bored now, wait till the total lack of a reasonable amount of throttle response hits the competitive end of the field every Sunday afternoon.

It worked for the other two series just fine at Texas and they were running in that range.
 
So how do you explain on 30k in attendance?
There are as many opinions on that subject as there are people posting them.

I don’t know enough about it to offer an explanation.
 
It worked for the other two series just fine at Texas and they were running in that range.
3 different aero maps and 3 different engine packages.

The proof will be, as they say, in the pudding.
 
I watched the Xfinity and Cup races. The Truck race is sitting on my DVR, but I haven't gotten to it and am not sure when I will. The current state of Texas Motor Speedway is a one groove track at any speed.

There were 13 cautions in the 300 mile Xfinity race, with much of the 'action' taking place on restarts. The average green flag run for the race was 10 laps.

There were 8 cautions in the 500 mile Cup race, with an average green flag run of 33 laps.

I have found this across many different types of racing, but some people honestly prefer lower series racing because the drivers are less experienced and make more errors that can lead to more entertainment.
 
Trucks Pole speed: 188.758 mph
Xfinity Pole speed: 189.321 mph
Cup Pole speed: 200.505 mph

I can't explain how 11 MPH can make such a difference at one track, But you sure can tell by the speeds that they turned the trucks up
 
I watched the Xfinity and Cup races. The Truck race is sitting on my DVR, but I haven't gotten to it and am not sure when I will. The current state of Texas Motor Speedway is a one groove track at any speed.

There were 13 cautions in the 300 mile Xfinity race, with much of the 'action' taking place on restarts. The average green flag run for the race was 10 laps.

There were 8 cautions in the 500 mile Cup race, with an average green flag run of 33 laps.

I have found this across many different types of racing, but some people honestly prefer lower series racing because the drivers are less experienced and make more errors that can lead to more entertainment.
that is part of it, but if you watch either race, trucks or Xfinity there was action caught by the cameras all over both fields. Cars and the trucks all appeared to be as hard to drive as the cup cars, some of it definitely was the experience level, Bell spinning twice though Allgaier washing out the front end were very similar to what was happening to the cup cars.
 
Trucks Pole speed: 188.758 mph
Xfinity Pole speed: 189.321 mph
Cup Pole speed: 200.505 mph

I can't explain how 11 MPH can make such a difference at one track, But you sure can tell by the speeds that they turned the trucks up
How fast were the Cup cars going at the recent test of NASCAR’s latest entertainment experiment?
 
nobody seems to know. At the test at Charlotte, that package with the ducts had a reported 150 more HP than they had at the Allstar. Watching a short clip, Almirola who was a bit faster was able to set up the leader and pass him and pull away.
 
nobody seems to know. At the test at Charlotte, that package with the ducts had a reported 150 more HP than they had at the Allstar. Watching a short clip, Almirola who was a bit faster was able to set up the leader and pass him and pull away.
We’ll be watching ... some of us are less than optimistic.
 
How fast were the Cup cars going at the recent test of NASCAR’s latest entertainment experiment?
From the Charlotte video in post #625 above, I timed 4 laps at 2:02.72, which is 176.0 mph.

At the World 600 in May, happy hour practice speeds were in the range of 185 to 187 mph for the front half of the field. Qualifying speeds were higher, but less relevant IMO.

I know some disagree with me, but I don't think full lap average speeds are much of an issue. To me, what is important is the mph difference between corner entry and mid-corner, i.e. how much time off throttle. By this measure, there is a huge difference between the current 2018 race package and the planned 2019 entertainment package.
 
From the Charlotte video in post #625 above, I timed 4 laps at 2:02.72, which is 176.0 mph.

At the World 600 in May, happy hour practice speeds were in the range of 185 to 187 mph for the front half of the field. Qualifying speeds were higher, but less relevant IMO.

I know some disagree with me, but I don't think full lap average speeds are much of an issue. To me, what is important is the mph difference between corner entry and mid-corner, i.e. how much time off throttle. By this measure, there is a huge difference between the current 2018 race package and the planned 2019 entertainment package.
I agree. However, at this point, it’s the only information we have.

What I think matters most is what they’re going to be able to do with much weaker, intake reduced engines and all that downforce. Those speeds were attained decades ago ... when the cars generated a lot less DF than the 2019 kit is going to make.
 
I would think they will be able to pass in the corners, something recently absent for the most part. Somebody wanted them to reduce side force. As it is, when two cars get side by side in a corner, unless it is just so the inside lane gets sucked around unless separated by a wide margin. This leads to the outside car being so far out of the groove that most drivers don't attempt a pass. With even less side force and higher speeds, the cars could approach F-1 levels of follow the leader
 
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I agree. However, at this point, it’s the only information we have.

What I think matters most is what they’re going to be able to do with much weaker, intake reduced engines and all that downforce. Those speeds were attained decades ago ... when the cars generated a lot less DF than the 2019 kit is going to make.
So about 175
 
Exactly. Explain the concept of new rules every year to a potential new fan.
 
I don't need it. Seriously tho, slower speeds, cluster racing, throttled down with spacer HP, to me isn't true racing. Just another gimmick which will drive more fans away.
Fans have been clamoring for cars like we used to have, well this is closer to what they had.
Now some don't want it and I think they are the newer fans that are only concerned with "Top Speed." Funny thing is none of these cars today can meet the top speed they did 25 yrs ago.
 
Fans have been clamoring for cars like we used to have, well this is closer to what they had.
Now some don't want it and I think they are the newer fans that are only concerned with "Top Speed."
This is not even close to what we had in the 80s through the mid 90s.
 
Fans have been clamoring for cars like we used to have, well this is closer to what they had.
Now some don't want it and I think they are the newer fans that are only concerned with "Top Speed." Funny thing is none of these cars today can meet the top speed they did 25 yrs ago.

yep there is a sweet spot for handling that goes away the faster they go and the groove continues to get smaller. Less HP and the ducts are designed to closely replicate the cars we used to have with very little modifications on the bigger tracks. It will be nice next year if two or three of the best cars are able to duel it out over the span of the race elbows up. ...waiting for that slingshot(s). The bulk of the season will be the 750 HP car, hopefully a bit slower and one that can go two or three wide in the corners if the need be, much like the trucks and the Xfinity cars can if it is time to go for it.
 
Somebody wanted them to reduce side force. As it is, when two cars get side by side in a corner, unless it is just so the inside lane gets sucked around unless separated by a wide margin. This leads to the outside car being so far out of the groove that most drivers don't attempt a pass. With even less side force and higher speeds, the cars could approach F-1 levels of follow the leader
That's not how side force works. Side force is an aerodynamic crutch that - when you have it - permits higher cornering speed than the tires alone can generate. When "my" side force is suddenly interrupted by another car blocking the airflow onto the right side of my car, the sudden loss of the aerodynamic crutch causes me to spin out. I didn't literally get "sucked around," despite that term often being used... I just lost the crutch that had been propping me up at that high cornering speed.

The concept of designing a car that has very little side force is... if I don't have it, I can't suddenly lose it when a competitor comes near... so I have to corner at a lower speed. Getting rid of side force would create more off-throttle time, and would lessen the sudden loss of stability when a competitor comes alongside. IMO, that is a double benefit.
 
there is a serious flaw to that reasoning, drivers will be on the edge of adhesion no matter what the side force is. No driver in their right mind is going to try to get along side a car out front in clean air. a much easier and cheaper way to reduce side force is to create a much larger hole in the air so the trailing car can stay closer to the car in front entering the curve instead of being "off throttle" that driver can do the opposite, stay on the throttle close to the car in front and slingshot down the straight. Ya see, I believe Nascar has been collecting data from all of the tracks going way back, and the prototype they tested at the All star proved theory, they were conservative in their package, but that and the Xfinity package gave them good baselines and they went from there.
 
check the HP and grip level of the twisted sister.
The cars, HP means nothing, when the cars were totally different, for one they looked like stock cars more, and weren't glued down to the track. You can compare HP, but your results will be skewed by the major difference in body styles.
 
The cars, HP means nothing, when the cars were totally different, for one they looked like stock cars more, and weren't glued down to the track. You can compare HP, but your results will be skewed by the major difference in body styles.
are you stuck in the 60's? and even then they were building downforce
iu
 
What's the clearance dude?
that car had around 425 hp. Pole speed at Atlanta was 147 MPH compared to over 185 of today's cars over 40MPH faster. I'm confused, you say the racing is fine why change it, then ya say the attendance is a problem because of the racing, and then ya say the cars need to look like cars that run in the 140's . :idunno:
 
that car had around 425 hp. Pole speed at Atlanta was 147 MPH compared to over 185 of today's cars over 40MPH faster. I'm confused, you say the racing is fine why change it, then ya say the attendance is a problem because of the racing, and then ya say the cars need to look like cars that run in the 140's . :idunno:
I didn't say the attendance is a result of the racing...its the constant changes and gimmicks and I think a lot of people feel the same. I think the racing has been good for the most part, outside of the last snoozefest sunday.
 
I will agree that Nascar has to make a decision for the season and then run 2-3 seasons
with no changes. If it is real bad then they will learn to put more thought into their changes.
 


Steve O'Donnell had claimed that it was this year's rules that made it difficult for Goodyear to design a tire with more wear, and that this package would allow that. Of course, NASCAR also used increased tire wear as a selling point in 2015 for the low downforce package, so it's hard to pin them down on this, other than that increased tire wear is kinda maybe something that sounds good.

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2018/10/02/2019-rules-packages-announced-monster-energy-series/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...r-tires-low-downforce-soft-compound/74123886/
 
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