NASCAR announces 2019 MENCS rules

Formerjackman said:
As I have said, I was a HUGE advocate of the previous rules, but once I saw it, I HATED it. I don't have a damn clue what the 2019 racing will actually look like, but I think it's something that HAS to be tried, even if it fails. There just HAS to be a better answer than what I saw last year
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Funny, I thought last year was the best it has been since 2014. Back in '14, I thought that was the best it had been since the mid 2000's.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, of course. It's just crazy how two longtime hardcore fans can see things so differently.
 
2 Sweet said:
Funny, I thought last year was the best it has been since 2014. Back in '14, I thought that was the best it had been since the mid 2000's.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, of course. It's just crazy how two longtime hardcore fans can see things so differently.
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2014 was the high D/F package but more speed than they will have this year, and this year they can draft up under the larger spoiler and the side air will give them air on the front end so they don't loose the front end is the theory anyway. I like the theory, will it work as planned? Record numbers of passing at Charlotte with a package that isn't this racy. I think we get more of a hint next week with 12 cars at Vegas.
 
2 Sweet said:
Funny, I thought last year was the best it has been since 2014. Back in '14, I thought that was the best it had been since the mid 2000's.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, of course. It's just crazy how two longtime hardcore fans can see things so differently.
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I've never dozed off in the middle of a race as often as I did last year. There were some notable exceptions, but not nearly enough of them.
 
there were some real yawners despite the stages. Most of the good ones had cautions thrown in the closing laps. Harvick, Busch or occasionally Truex would get out front in clean air and nobody could pass them
 
2 Sweet said:
Was it? I thought they added downforce in '15 and it kind of sucked, so they backed off and started taking it away each season after that
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you could be right, I'll dig, I know it was the high HP and I thought it was high D/F
 
2 Sweet said:
Was it? I thought they added downforce in '15 and it kind of sucked, so they backed off and started taking it away each season after that
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? pretty big spoiler in 14. Looks like it was compared to 2015 Rear spoiler adjustment to 6 inches high (2014 height: 8 inches)
The changes for 2014 include:

— Statically set car at race ride height — eliminate pre- and post-race front height rules and inspection.

— The use of a front splitter with a square leading edge.

— Skirts at 4-inch minimum ground clearance on both the left and right sides.

— Rear fascia trimmed 1.375 inches higher in current scallop region.

— The use of an 8-inch high rear spoiler.
 
somewhere's along that time they started pushing in the sides and kicking out the skirts to get more D/F
 
The general effects of the rule changes are not a giant unknowable mystery to anyone, and don't require "waiting and seeing" to have a preference. I'll leave it at that, but I'm tired of anyone who has posted exclusively in favor lecturing about how they are the only ones allowed to have an opinion.
 
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Formerjackman said:
I have NO PROBLEM with somebody offering their opinion on the 2019 rules, but the fact is we likely won't know what we have until at least 10 or so races have been run. As I have said, I was a HUGE advocate of the previous rules, but once I saw it, I HATED it. I don't have a damn clue what the 2019 racing will actually look like, but I think it's something that HAS to be tried, even if it fails. There just HAS to be a better answer than what I saw last year, but I'll have no idea what that is.
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I disagree of course :D. This absolutely did NOT have to be tried. This is not a halfway normal package change of year's past. This is a drastic change to the likes of sending DRAFT importance through the roof on normally run 1.5 mile tracks.
 
Meh, just more unnecessary low blows. We ought to be able to have respectful disagreements here in good faith and discern between people who enjoy racing and the few who are just here to piss on everything. I know I can.

People who are vociferously in favor of a change aren't waiting and seeing anymore than those who aren't in favor. That's the gist.
 
Formerjackman said:
I've never dozed off in the middle of a race as often as I did last year. There were some notable exceptions, but not nearly enough of them.
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IMO, this is how bad changes get made and fanbases get sliced in half. You're bored. Therefore there must be change in your opinion. Have you considered that maybe you're just bored with watching? Hell, even I get bored during races, first to admit, it can get boring! Doesn't mean I don't like it, or want major changes. I think the battle of boredom will always be wrestled with by viewers when it comes to NASCAR and racing in general.
 
gnomesayin said:
Meh, just more unnecessary low blows. We ought to be able to have respectful disagreements here in good faith and discern between people who enjoy racing and the few who are just here to piss on everything. I know I can.

People who are vociferously in favor of a change aren't waiting and seeing anymore than those who aren't in favor. That's the gist.
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eh, I know I have posted every time they are testing. Sure they aren't racing but testing, but drivers coming off the track aren't saying the package sucks and lap times have been faster than the original. They have been running close at speed and able to pass. Now on the other side, it's they are slow, they aren't lifting in the corners, straight speeds are slow and corner speeds are fast..flat footing it on and same ol same ol. I don't see anything wrong with either opinion that is what they believe.
 
StandOnIt said:
eh, I know I have posted every time they are testing. Sure they aren't racing but testing, but drivers coming off the track aren't saying the package sucks and lap times have been faster than the original. They have been running close at speed and able to pass. Now on the other side, it's they are slow, they aren't lifting in the corners, straight speeds are slow and corner speeds are fast..flat footing it on and same ol same ol. I don't see anything wrong with either opinion that is what they believe.
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SOI I will check back in with you during Vegas and Fontana qualifying to make sure they're not flat footing it :D
 
Turtle84 said:
IMO, this is how bad changes get made and fanbases get sliced in half. You're bored. Therefore there must be change in your opinion. Have you considered that maybe you're just bored with watching? Hell, even I get bored during races, first to admit, it can get boring! Doesn't mean I don't like it, or want major changes. I think the battle of boredom will always be wrestled with by viewers when it comes to NASCAR and racing in general.
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The problem is, I'm a HARDCORE fan. If I'm bored, so are millions of people that aren't anywhere near as vested in it as I am, and all of the ones I know tell me as much. Of all of the people I know that were serious fans, basically NONE of them are now, and on the off occasion they DO watch, they tell me they are NOT impressed by what they are seeing. THAT is a problem for NASCAR regardless of how you feel about it. NASCAR cannot survive and thrive on the handful of purists who were happy with last year.
 
I'll go out on a limb and say the only people who won't enjoy the 2019 season are those who want to see 1000 HP going down the straightaway and 200 mph into the corner. That isn't racing.
I am hoping they can get back to the better drivers doing the winning and the engineers are working on a better beer machine.
 
At some point the "pureness" of the sport must be balanced against it's entertainment value. Without enough of the second, the first becomes moot. Just like the NFL. I enjoy the hell out of a smothering dominant defense, but the fact is, offense sells. What was the most talked about game of 2018-2019? That Chiefs-Rams games where they combined to hang 100 on the scoreboard.
 
Turtle84 said:
SOI I will check back in with you during Vegas and Fontana qualifying to make sure they're not flat footing it :D
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I understand you don't get it. You think that is a bad thing. It is a problem for you. I don't particularly care if they go around on two wheels. :D What I want to see is close racing, dog fights for the lead, not whoever gets out front has a huge advantage and can hold off cars that are as fast or faster by taking their aero away. :idunno:
 
What made Nascar decide to implement the 2019 rules? It is possible that the impetus came from the race broadcasters as they have been very big losers of late. Nascar is delivering a product to the networks that sustains major year over year losses and an awful demographic. I’m not saying the networks told Nascar what to do specifically but they may have told them what they wanted to see.

As much as I think I won’t care for these changes I am hoping they succeed in drawing in new fans. If this change doesn’t move the needle then I hope the next one does. I know what I like to see in Nascar racing but what I like to see resulted in almost 800k fans less per race watching in 2018 versus 2017.

Bring on the flat footing, pack racing, low speed racing.:(
 
StandOnIt said:
Boyer's take :D

“This is a drastic rule change. The face of our sport is going to be different. Time will tell what opinions are made, and certainly I’ll form my opinion when that time comes. Testing is one thing. It’ll be, what, 14, 15 cars out there next week? When you get out there with 40 nut jobs, it’s a whole different story.”
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Why I love Clint Bowyer.
 
Formerjackman said:
The problem is, I'm a HARDCORE fan. If I'm bored, so are millions of people that aren't anywhere near as vested in it as I am, and all of the ones I know tell me as much. Of all of the people I know that were serious fans, basically NONE of them are now, and on the off occasion they DO watch, they tell me they are NOT impressed by what they are seeing. THAT is a problem for NASCAR regardless of how you feel about it. NASCAR cannot survive and thrive on the handful of purists who were happy with last year.
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Or your opinion is in the vast minority with regards to last season...NASCAR would have to run the numbers on that one. And of course former fans that pop in occasionally are going to look for a way to rationalize why they don't watch anymore. Again, there's going to be a contingent of fans that will be bored no matter what changes NASCAR makes, if they're not getting their steady stream of wrecks, drama, and pack racing it's a snoozefest for them. NASCAR can't guarantee that at every race.

Attributing all of the fan loss to the on-track product from 18', that's accurate? I don't see how that's even possible, that last year was head and shoulders more boring than anything run in the 2000's.
 
StandOnIt said:
I understand you don't get it. You think that is a bad thing. It is a problem for you. I don't particularly care if they go around on two wheels. :D What I want to see is close racing, dog fights for the lead, not whoever gets out front has a huge advantage and can hold off cars that are as fast or faster by taking their aero away. :idunno:
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We didn't see close racing or dog fights last year? Hold onto your hat on the whole AERO thing.
 
Turtle84 said:
We didn't see close racing or dog fights last year? Hold onto your hat on the whole AERO thing.
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I think what SOI is saying is that he wants more of a show that features all the drama that pack racing normally generates. I want to see a speed contest that often shows the talent of the top guys.

Some people totally get what is good about speed contests while others fall asleep at the thought of them. My opinion is that Nascar is shuffling deck chairs around and hoping not to hit the iceberg too hard.
 
All I can tell you guys is that 3/4 of last year's Cup races bored me. I can't remember the last time I was bored watching a Truck race. Draw your own conclusions from that. AND, if the the 2018 low downforce cars were so fast and hard to drive, why is it that even the crummy drivers don't crash anymore?
 
Turtle84 said:
Or your opinion is in the vast minority with regards to last season...NASCAR would have to run the numbers on that one. And of course former fans that pop in occasionally are going to look for a way to rationalize why they don't watch anymore. Again, there's going to be a contingent of fans that will be bored no matter what changes NASCAR makes, if they're not getting their steady stream of wrecks, drama, and pack racing it's a snoozefest for them. NASCAR can't guarantee that at every race.

Attributing all of the fan loss to the on-track product from 18', that's accurate? I don't see how that's even possible, that last year was head and shoulders more boring than anything run in the 2000's.
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until the latter part of the year, last season was setting a record that goes back to 92 for the least number of passes..and that's with the two shuffles that comes from the stages. :idunno:
 
Formerjackman said:
All I can tell you guys is that 3/4 of last year's Cup races bored me. I can't remember the last time I was bored watching a Truck race. Draw your own conclusions from that. AND, if the the 2018 low downforce cars were so fast and hard to drive, why is it that even the crummy drivers don't crash anymore?
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I think a lot of people felt the same way as you about the racing last year. Unfortunately a lot of them just quit watching and have likely moved on to something else.

Even though I was happy with the racing last year I am pragmatic enough to understand that it didn’t work in enhancing the series. When you lose as many fans as Nascar has over the past couple years you have to do something.
 
Even though Brian France is gone he is still going to get what he wants with the new rules. Pack racing, flat footing, lower horsepower and likely more wrecks and longer races. As sorry assed as those prospects are I hope it is accepted.
 
Formerjackman said:
All I can tell you guys is that 3/4 of last year's Cup races bored me. I can't remember the last time I was bored watching a Truck race. Draw your own conclusions from that. AND, if the the 2018 low downforce cars were so fast and hard to drive, why is it that even the crummy drivers don't crash anymore?
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most of the lead changes came from pit screw ups, many from that stupid uncontrolled tire B.S. and there was more passing in the pits than out on the track for the most part. Had some good races though when cautions fell in the closing stages. Chicago had Larson closing on Busch and Busch took his line. That usually ends in a no pass why? because what happened is why, a driver has to slam into the other to pass. Made for good drama, but a better way would be if Larson could have got a run and had enough car control to cut down and hold it and fight for the lead IMO
 
Ventisca said:
All paying fans over 18 (where legal) receive a red and blue beer can.

You wait till the end of the race -- then during the Victory Lap fans throw the red can (marked "GOOD") if they liked the race OR blue can ("BAD") if they didn't like the race. The Fan may then drink the other can.

KyBu wins will be factored into the tabulations, so NASCAR doesn't overstate the number of BAD cans being thrown as indicative of the racing -- (KyBu logarithm)...

Immediate input from the Paying Fan Vote -- no councils, speeches, campaigning, etc. -- just throw that beer! :D
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How about drink both beers and deposit the residue on Brian France?
 
StandOnIt said:
there were some real yawners despite the stages. Most of the good ones had cautions thrown in the closing laps. Harvick, Busch or occasionally Truex would get out front in clean air and nobody could pass them
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Was that because of clean air, or just because they were the best? I think those teams were just the best the majority of the year, and when they got out front no one could catch them.
 
StandOnIt said:
? pretty big spoiler in 14. Looks like it was compared to 2015 Rear spoiler adjustment to 6 inches high (2014 height: 8 inches)
The changes for 2014 include:

— Statically set car at race ride height — eliminate pre- and post-race front height rules and inspection.

— The use of a front splitter with a square leading edge.

— Skirts at 4-inch minimum ground clearance on both the left and right sides.

— Rear fascia trimmed 1.375 inches higher in current scallop region.

— The use of an 8-inch high rear spoiler.
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They had lower HP in 2015 too. It was a sort of mixed year with both lower HP and somewhat high levels of downforce, compared to 2014 which had both peak HP and peak downforce. 2014 was more memorable, 2015 was just kinda blah.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Was that because of clean air, or just because they were the best? I think those teams were just the best the majority of the year, and when they got out front no one could catch them.
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yeah I have to agree, too many times they were put in the back and they came to the front. But as we all know aero played a huge part in that.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I think those teams were just the best the majority of the year, and when they got out front no one could catch them.
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That may be, but it doesn't make a race that the majority of people want to watch, which is where you have to strike a balance between sport and entertainment.
 
Formerjackman said:
That may be, but it doesn't make a race that the majority of people want to watch, which is where you have to strike a balance between sport and entertainment.
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A stretch of domination like that is very unprecedented in modern NASCAR, and we saw much greater competition in the second half, particularly final third, of the season anyways. It makes more sense to just let the rest of the field catch up naturally than bunch the field together by neutering the cars. In a big transition period with old stars retiring and young unknowns moving up to fill their places it seems to me like NASCAR panicked and decided they needed to make a huge change ASAP to stop the bleeding, but maybe that's just how I see it.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Was that because of clean air, or just because they were the best? I think those teams were just the best the majority of the year, and when they got out front no one could catch them.
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IMO those 3 were on rails and it was a thing of beauty.
 
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