NASCAR announces 2019 MENCS rules

Perfect example of how this rules package screws things up: I was so pumped from attending the Roval last Sunday that I was ready to call and get my season tickets back for next year. Then I paused and remembered that a new rules package was coming and it was likely the pack racing restricted deal. I immediately stopped and took a "wait and see" approach. I'll still get Roval tickets, but the All Star and 600 will unlikely. Sure, I represent 4 tickets worth of potential customer to the track that seats 100k+, but how many more are like me? From the looks of the stands, A LOT.

I'm not saying that it won't work, but I am being very cautious. Pack racing where you need someone else's help to pass is not what I consider "racing."
 
oh the drama. This guy says Nascar has painted themselves in a corner..like Nascar won't change the package, he hasn't been following the sport for the last 40 50 years or so.

And the commonalities in the quotes lauding the diametrically opposite approaches are why there’s a no returns policy on the 2019 rules. If NASCAR finds itself or its teams unsatisfied in 2019 or 2020 there’s no alternate route because the series is already on the alternate route. The primary route was previously deemed unsatisfactory.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/na...hange-search-racing-perfection-012315333.html
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
Perfect example of how this rules package screws things up: I was so pumped from attending the Roval last Sunday that I was ready to call and get my season tickets back for next year. Then I paused and remembered that a new rules package was coming and it was likely the pack racing restricted deal. I immediately stopped and took a "wait and see" approach. I'll still get Roval tickets, but the All Star and 600 will unlikely. Sure, I represent 4 tickets worth of potential customer to the track that seats 100k+, but how many more are like me? From the looks of the stands, A LOT.

I'm not saying that it won't work, but I am being very cautious. Pack racing where you need someone else's help to pass is not what I consider "racing."
Click to expand...
You arent going to need someone else to pass.
 
StandOnIt said:
oh the drama. This guy says Nascar has painted themselves in a corner..like Nascar won't change the package, he hasn't been following the sport for the last 40 50 years or so.

And the commonalities in the quotes lauding the diametrically opposite approaches are why there’s a no returns policy on the 2019 rules. If NASCAR finds itself or its teams unsatisfied in 2019 or 2020 there’s no alternate route because the series is already on the alternate route. The primary route was previously deemed unsatisfactory.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/na...hange-search-racing-perfection-012315333.html
Click to expand...
NASCAR has flip-flopped on what philosophy makes for the best racing so many times now in the 21st century that it's hard not to see these low HP/high drag/high downforce rules as a last-gasp effort to find whatever "good racing" is. If this ain't it, then what is?
 
Last gasp..funny. People need to read between the lines. There is a new car coming soon, I know many will hate it before they see it race, could be other manufacturers joining the fray, I ain't gasping.
 
StandOnIt said:
Last gasp..funny. People need to read between the lines. There is a new car coming soon, I know many will hate it before they see it race, could be other manufacturers joining the fray, I ain't gasping.
Click to expand...
NASCAR has "been in talks with" other manufacturers for years now and nothing has materialized. Now the mystery OEMs want 550 HP...conveniently the same level of power that Steve-O says will make the racing better than ever. Hokay.

We don't have so much as even a rough estimate for when Gen-7 will come out. Sounds like NASCAR is just making up more stories to drum up support for this.
 
yeah I didn't know Brian has a degree in engineering and is an expert on the subject and hasn't figured out that some teams will spend untold amounts of money money to gain an advantage. And some will have a field day when the same teams will be in the front positions..like duh
 
The negativity in this debate isn't on one side. It's on both ends. The difference is in what people are speaking negatively about. Those who strongly support the new package view the current 2018 racing negatively. Some are more open about it than others, but at the root of any demand for an overhaul is dissatisfaction with the current state. Any justification for the new package leads to talk of 2018 racing not being close enough.

Those who strongly oppose the new package tend to have a positive view of NASCAR racing circa 2018, and wanted NASCAR to continue with the philosophy that brought it about. We react negatively to the pressure to change something we generally like.

The official NASCAR PR line is essentially, "What we have now is great and awesome. This other very different approach will continue to be even greater and more awesome." That's obviously hogwash. Nobody radically changes something they are satisfied with.

Some others are in the middle and say they'll just go with whatever NASCAR does and hope for the best. OK, that's fine too. It doesn't invalidate others having actual preferences.
 
Looking at the statistics, instead of the drama, the high or the low D/F package and even reducing the HP to 750 has hardly changed the speeds. The margin of victory has actually increased for 2016 and 17 years with the reduced d/f quote harder to drive cars not to mention passes for the lead is at a all time low. Some say the racing is better than ever this year. But the tracks at the top were Bristol a short track and a desperation move by Kyle Larson and Bush..hm a pass for the lead was involved at Chicago, and a road race. :idunno: What do all those tracks have in common..Passing, many wrecks racing hard for positions drivers have a chance to attain and the driver skill to pull it off.
 
Last edited:
LewTheShoe said:
I pay no attention to lap speeds in deciding whether the racing is good or not. For the last five years or so, I have focused on the *difference* between peak top speed and minimum valley speed as a key measure of degree of difficulty / car control skill...

2015 Rules: Enter at 200... lift and glide down to 188... stand on the gas again... average speed 195. That is relatively easy.

2018 Rules: Enter at 218... brake hard, rotors glowing... apex at 158... feather the gas seems like forever... finally stand on it... average speed 195. Much harder, separates the contenders from the pretenders.
Click to expand...

Seems like this falls on some deaf ears, but yes, major changes in downforce, drag, and HP effect speeds. For the bazillionth time, there is more to racing than just average lap speeds.

In addition to trashing the current racing to justify the new rules, one must also apparently claim that the current cars are not difficult to drive, the drivers aren't particularly skilled, and that the drivers who spoke out against the package are some combination of dishonest and lazy.
 
good drama there, but the statistics tell the tale, passing is way down and the margin of victory(out front in clean air) is higher than like 1993?
 
comparing the All star package to the package they are going to race are different things. that package arguement is over and some need to put a period on it. Larson said after the test with the new package at ISM they he really likes it..oh oh.
 
gnomesayin said:
Yes, it's a been a terrible year of Cup racing, and I'm sorry you've had to suffer through it. ;)
Click to expand...
I pointed out the races that were generally good for everybody me included. Post #213, but if a glowing brake rotor turns your crank far be it from me to try to change that. BTW those mostly occur on short tracks and road races these days.
 
StandOnIt said:
comparing the All star package to the package they are going to race are different things. that package arguement is over and some need to put a period on it. Larson said after the test with the new package at ISM they he really likes it..oh oh.
Click to expand...
Isn't Phoenix still 750 HP? I'm not sure that says a whole lot.
 
Zerkfitting said:
When ever NASCAR tries to slow the cars down the teams find a way to get it back.
Click to expand...
I totally agree 550 is just a number IMO, as in how do cars that have 400HP restrictor plate HP run over 200 MPH, or cars with 750 run almost as fast as cars with 900 HP, same car. I believe they work under the car and it is all about D/F or lack of it on the plate tracks. With the less HP this year, they have mandated a larger front plate under the cars front end and a different radiator spec, and with the changes made this year, it looks like Nascar is trying to take that advantage away and add it to the top of the car where everybody gets it instead of the chosen few. time will tell. I don't think for a minute the front goers will change, but guys a tic slower cars like Hemric, and Larson, and to a smaller extent the team of Buescher and Preece will have a better chance of showing their skills
 
StandOnIt said:
comparing the All star package to the package they are going to race are different things. that package arguement is over and some need to put a period on it. Larson said after the test with the new package at ISM they he really likes it..oh oh.
Click to expand...

If you are referring to the clip posted I don't think Larson said he liked or disliked the 2019 package. I think he said something like he thought his team was the fastest and that is always a good thing. If that is true it is a far cry from saying he liked the package.
 
IanMcVittie said:
If you are referring to the clip posted I don't think Larson said he liked or disliked the 2019 package. I think he said something like he thought his team was the fastest and that is always a good thing. If that is true it is a far cry from saying he liked the package.
Click to expand...

you could be right.
 
This is fantastic news for NASCAR. The racing will be the closest we've ever seen and talents like Ricky Stenhouse Jr. and Austin Dillon will not be hampered by poor equipment so much and will be able to manipulate the air on their way through the field. I expect 2019 will have more photo finishes than the Cup Series has ever seen before.

And not only that, but manufacturers are beating down the door trying to get into NASCAR with lower HP engines. We could be entering a true golden era of NASCAR Cup racing.
 
On one hand I see a group of people that want to see a speed contest where on most weeks it will be individual driver skill and car set up that is a very important factor in performing well.

On the other hand I am seeing "don't knock it till you see it" statements and cherry picked stats that leave out pertinent information and the goalposts keep moving. Part of the vibe is that we will see more pack racing for longer periods on restarts and that there will be more inconsequential passes during scoring loops. If that sort of thing trips your trigger just say it instead of trying to justify another poor decision from NASCAR.
 
NASCAR Apologist said:
This is fantastic news for NASCAR. The racing will be the closest we've ever seen and talents like Ricky Stenhouse Jr. and Austin Dillon will not be hampered by poor equipment so much and will be able to manipulate the air on their way through the field. I expect 2019 will have more photo finishes than the Cup Series has ever seen before.

And not only that, but manufacturers are beating down the door trying to get into NASCAR with lower HP engines. We could be entering a true golden era of NASCAR Cup racing.
Click to expand...


I may not agree with you but I sure appreciate your post as it gives good insight into 2019.
 
IanMcVittie said:
On one hand I see a group of people that want to see a speed contest where on most weeks it will be individual driver skill and car set up that is a very important factor in performing well.

On the other hand I am seeing "don't knock it till you see it" statements and cherry picked stats that leave out pertinent information and the goalposts keep moving. Part of the vibe is that we will see more pack racing for longer periods on restarts and that there will be more inconsequential passes during scoring loops. If that sort of thing trips your trigger just say it instead of trying to justify another poor decision from NASCAR.
Click to expand...

yeah the stats lie..good one I have to figure out how to cherry pick as compared to opinions one of these days.
 
StandOnIt said:
yeah the stats lie..good one I have to figure out how to cherry pick as compared to opinions one of these days.
Click to expand...

When statistics are used by those with a purposeful bias it can become a deliberate attempt to mislead an audience all the while feigning accountability.
 
IanMcVittie said:
When statistics are used by those with a purposeful bias it can become a deliberate attempt to mislead an audience all the while feigning accountability.
Click to expand...

and those who discredit hard facts? It is one thing to have an opinion that despite the statistics there are those that think the racing is just fine, but it is ridiculous to try to discredit the facts. I don't think the racing is better, never said it is terrible, but has been pretty much the same ol same ol since the latest changes. A good race can break out on any track and peoples opinions on what is a good race vary widely. I don't agree with the status quo of the racing, neither does Nascar. It's a done deal, it is all over but the crying. The status quoers could be right. I'm going to go by the statistics either way, and if the racing improves or gets worse who really knows at this point. I'm thinking it will, the statistics overall for the packages they have tried have for the most part shown more passing and closer racing. Changes have been made from owners and driver inputs from the older packages for next year, horsepower has been increased and balance has been improved. Who knows what speed they will enter the corners, but I would bet money they have to lift or they will hit the wall and that isn't a matter of blinding speed but a matter of physics.
 
RacerrecaR said:
The cars were also off the ground, had minimal downforce, and teams weren't handcuffed with rules as to how the cars were set up.
Click to expand...
Good point. These shock rules are killing the competitiveness in racing on lots of levels.
 
StandOnIt said:
and those who discredit hard facts? It is one thing to have an opinion that despite the statistics there are those that think the racing is just fine, but it is ridiculous to try to discredit the facts. I don't think the racing is better, never said it is terrible, but has been pretty much the same ol same ol since the latest changes. A good race can break out on any track and peoples opinions on what is a good race vary widely. I don't agree with the status quo of the racing, neither does Nascar. It's a done deal, it is all over but the crying. The status quoers could be right. I'm going to go by the statistics either way, and if the racing improves or gets worse who really knows at this point. I'm thinking it will, the statistics overall for the packages they have tried have for the most part shown more passing and closer racing. Changes have been made from owners and driver inputs from the older packages for next year, horsepower has been increased and balance has been improved. Who knows what speed they will enter the corners, but I would bet money they have to lift or they will hit the wall and that isn't a matter of blinding speed but a matter of physics.
Click to expand...

We like what we like and I don't think any of us are under any obligation to try and justify it. I like the racing this year and am skeptical about what it will be like in 2019. I believe that you like the racing this year but believe it will probably
be better when NASCAR implements changes in 2019. Good racing iis like asking a person what good art is if you catch my drift.
 
MRM said:
Good point. These shock rules are killing the competitiveness in racing on lots of levels.
Click to expand...

they had very expensive shock packages back then that were designed to collapse at high speeds and pop back up after the race to get by the minimum height rules. A person has to go farther back to the early 70's when they were off the ground, back when the hemi and the wing cars were filtered in, outlawed, manufacturer boycotted, and brought back for the smaller tracks. Back when they didn't have rules or cheat and cars and engines didn't get banned:D and things were nice and calm :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom