Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by FLRacingFan, Oct 2, 2018.
Pretty sure the ducts are just for bigger tracks minus Atlanta/Darlington/Homestead. Phoenix is base package with 750 HP/big spoiler/big radiator pan/big splitter.
"Rumor has it" that some tracks will use these aerodynamic devices... think of the sponsorship opportunities!
yeah It looks like no ducts for 1.33 mile tracks or less but the same HP. No ducts but a smaller spacer for Atlanta, Pocono, Darlington and Homestead.
“...The different packages will be tailored to the specific tracks on the Monster Energy Series circuit, with a combination of a smaller tapered spacer to reduce engine horsepower to a target goal of 550 (from 750) and aero ducts to foster tighter racing on a majority of speedways measuring longer than 1 mile. Both features will be in place for 17 of the 36 races next season, excepting the 2019 Daytona 500, which will run with traditional restrictor-plate rules. Five other races will be run with the smaller spacer, but without ducts...
Five races at larger ovals are exceptions. Both Pocono events and races at Atlanta, Darlington and Homestead will use the smaller tapered spacer, but will not use the aero ducts that transfer air to the side of the car away from the front tires. Neither the smaller spacer nor ducts will be used at short tracks and road courses...”
clear as mud BUT I am sure the booth will explain it many many times because they miss the "tight" "loose off" explanations.
How long into the season and how many driver quotes about how easy it is until they start undoing this mess? I just don't see how this is going to test these guys. Sure, it'll test their defensive driving skills (cause that's what racing is about ), but there's no way this rewards the guys with an edge in talent when it comes to car control.
Am I the only one that also doesn't care about whether or not this appeals to other manufacturers? I feel as if those are things that don't really impact the fan base all that much, similar to dollars spent. It's mostly irrelevant. The current 3 manufacturers are heavily invested in the sport and they aren't going anywhere, so what's the big fuss? More money in NASCAR's pocket for plastering Nissan and Honda logos everywhere? Dodge is the only other manufacturer that I'd even care to see return and they're likely to do that regardless of engine size or power, it's just a matter of if they want to or not.
I agree with most of this, although the possibility of going with a smaller engine in the future I think will attract more manufacturers. I agree the car control skill won't be on display as much, I think the current package works just fine when it comes to that.
I couldn't read the article but I definitely agree to push for more of a stock car. I think the 550hp motor is a good step in that direction and I can see how it makes NASCAR more relevant to other auto manufacturers.
I will of course give the 2019 package a chance because the only other option is to not watch, but I am of the belief that this will actually lead to more single file racing on long runs rather than the desired pack racing they are looking for. I think the only reason the package worked at the all star race was because the teams had no experience with it. By the end of the race the teams had something figured out and the cars were single file. What can they do with six months of use?
While I agree you about dumbing down the driving skills, I disagree with your faith that the current three OEMs are in Nascar "forever and ever, Amen." The world turns. Especially worrisome to me is the quasi-factory team business model employed by Toyota, which has sharply increased the cost of remaining competitive. Toyota builds engines. Toyota is deeply involved in chassis design and engineering as well as aerodynamics. Toyota developed state-of-the-art simulation hardware and software. Toyota manages and funds a driver development program that's deeper than a root canal. Toyota is up to their eyeballs in strong-arming their vendors to sponsor their race teams. And on and on...
So far, Ford has kinda sorta tried to match some of this, and GM has lagged behind even further than Ford. I hope it doesn't happen, but I can envision Ford and GM deciding to withdraw from this new "factory team Nascar." Or Toyota's strategy could shift... for example toward Formula E.
Having said all this, I don't believe this 550-HP rule has anything to do with attracting new manufacturers or retaining current ones. There is nothing revolutionary nor especially difficult about current Nascar motors. It is a red-herring argument put forth by Nascar management, IMO.
I agree 100% with your first paragraph about that business model. What used to be taboo to do and Ford and GM although heavily involved, I have never thought of those team owners being factory figure heads like I have seen lately with Toyota. You could be right about the 550HP rule, but at the same time Nascar has increased for next year the number of sealed engines. To me the last two years of rule changes have been to mitigate much of the high priced F-1 type engineering that has been taking place. The new package isn't going to give huge aero gains. Bringing the front pan back takes away much of the under car aero advantages and under the car fan placements and what type of radiator and splitter are nailed down now. Next year one less pit crew member to go with the slower guns they have now. I think Nascar continues to try to keep a level playing field and has been cutting costs from their end. Engines are definitely going to last longer next year. I think it is a good move to get away from the highly expensive F-1 engineering model and who knows, more teams might be able to afford to move into cup or another manufacturer might find it feasible to join the fray.
^ SOI, I definitely agree with you that multi-use engines need to be exploited much more, as a cost control measure. Just about every racing series has rules to limit the frequency of engine changes. Most of them cause relatively little disruption. MotoGP for example... used to have two newly built engines for every race, and sometimes more. Now it is five motors for the year, and no one is having problems.
It makes sense to me that 550 HP engines could have a longer life than 750 HP or more. Engine costs were cited as a reason for the tapered spacer in 2015 as well.
As for aerodynamics, I think it remains as important as ever... now seeking drag reduction more than downforce..
Dodge is the only other manufacturer that I'd even care to see return and they're likely to do that regardless of engine size or power, it's just a matter of if they want to or not.[/QUOTE]
Dodge is still apart of Nascar. The Pinty (in Canada) series has mostly Dodges but they run engine for that series. Crate I believe. I see no reason why they can't present a 2019 car and still run the engines that Penske has. It was approved and with the changes being made it would be good enough for next season.
Dodge is still apart of Nascar. The Pinty (in Canada) series has mostly Dodges but they run engine for that series. Crate I believe. I see no reason why they can't present a 2019 car and still run the engines that Penske has. It was approved and with the changes being made it would be good enough for next season.[/QUOTE]
XFINITY has the odd zombie dodge I believe
The point about the motors is that the 550HP target puts them more in range with production based engines which is what many manufacturers ARE interested in. The current NASCAR engines are a freak of nature that are both expensive AND not relevant to much of anything in the real world.
Super cheap engines @ 550 HP. Some of them almost stock, some would have to be de tuned, and the weekly IMSA type balance of performance system to keep them even. It wouldn't take a manufacturer's blessing or a mountain of money to race in the series. Merge IMSA GT's and Nascar..heads explode.
more of the above, you sure don't hear GM or Ford telling teams and drivers what they will and won't do.
Friday 5: Why Christopher Bell won’t have a full-time Cup ride in 2019
“Between ourselves and Joe Gibbs Racing, we’ve been very intentional about Christopher’s development,” David Wilson, president of Toyota Racing Development, told NBC Sports. “Was there some conversation? Absolutely. But we collectively decided to stay the course and genuinely believe it will serve Christopher to invest another year (in Xfinity). It’s not going to hurt him.
“One of the challenges of this new alliance is next year we’re … starting from some respects from ground zero (with a new partner in Leavine Family Racing). I don’t think it’s fair to put a rookie driver in the midst of that. This is why Matt will be a good fit. His experience will lend itself to building this alliance and building the level of competitiveness.”
slower cars, pushing a lot of air or blinding speed and one lane racing at Charlotte
I can't argue with Denny on that point.
I laughed my ass off when he tried it.
Not Gordo, say it ain't so.
“I think there are some moves being made for next year that will make the racing very entertaining with the rules package.
what does the 1.5 package for next year have in common with this race in 95 at Rockingham?
rear spoilers look very similar, front ends are on the ground, speeds will probably be pretty close, time will tell. The announcing team was golden, Buddy Baker was fun to listen too, the whole announcing team was.
That was the first race NASCAR race I ever attended, or even watched. They came out of turn 4 three wide and I've been hooked ever since. Thanks, Jesse, wherever you may be!
holy crap, I didn't know you were a new fan Charlie.
Sounds like they're wide-open by themselves, remains to be seen how they do in traffic. Although, Hemric said it feels pretty close to the Xfinity package they ran for three races...I am having flashbacks to the big long train trundling around Michigan before the rain came. Momentum driving and needing help to pass....also, barf.
180 by themselves.
In sharp contrast to the aero rules employed during the Monster Energy NASCAR All-Star Race at Charlotte Motor Speedway in May, drivers noticed higher speeds during Tuesday’s Goodyear Tire test at the track.
“From watching the All-Star Race as a fan, I thought (the cars) looked slow and I expected to feel that (today) being in it for the first time on the Cup side,” said Daniel Hemric, who will drive the No. 31 in the Cup series next season for Richard Childress Racing.
“I thought I’d go ride easy wide-open but as I went to run wide-open into (Turn) 1, as you dropped on in, you knew you were still running 180 mph. The speed sensation is there with this package.
Hemric said a better indication of the new rules’ potential should come later Tuesday when the four drivers participating in the test (William Byron and Aric Almirola were the others) planned to run together in a drafting session.
Lol drafting session. Good grief.
yeah that is different than stay back in distant single file so it won't affect the aero they are trying to test for.
Still slower than Trucks if 180 MPH is the entry speed.
They made them substantially slower, but the fact that they set the bar so low in May (running 160s) has people thinking this is fast now. Pretty brilliant if you ask me.
some of us think it is fast enough time will tell. Pole speed for Xfinity was 184, the trucks around 180 FYI, nobody knows what the cup cars will be.
I think it will be fun to watch also
While Byron said he has enjoyed the 2018 setup in the way the car is so challenging to drive, he believes it will be exciting to get a handle on the new setup as well.
“Obviously, you’re going to be around guys in racing,” he said. “I think it’s just more about precision, I guess, with how you’re around guys and how you make moves. It’s still racing. It’s still the same race car and you’re going to have to do the same things to make it go fast.”
“I think it will be fun.”
The more I read and hear about the changes for 2019 the more my initial fears seem justified.
You would think that at some point fixing the cars and tracks would be top priority but that would be expensive. In the meantime keep trying different types of bandaids until something works or there is not much left to bandage.
Hmm I thought changing the cars to hopefully race better more importantly to race better on the 1.5 is what they are doing. Fear and band aids aside.
That depends on how one defines 'race better'. I don't see much wrong with the racing produced this year. Sure, Kansas was a snoozer but they can't all be terrific.
how soon they forget all of the hate for the cookie cutters and their position on the super troll 500 list of why Nascar is dead. Now with statistically less passes on those tracks than almost ever in history, what me worry? nothin wrong around here ma.
I am very surprised anyone other than NASCAR claims the 2019 rules were anything more than trying to create an entertainment spectacle.
I think NASCAR wants to minimize what the haves possess and hope for racing that looks more like Daytona than Michigan or Pocono.
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