NASCAR Death Bed

FenderBumper said:
"Many people point to dwindling attendance and TV ratings as proof that NASCAR’s best days are behind it. However, that’s just not true. NASCAR is still as popular as ever. The Monster Energy NASCAR Cup Series is the #1 or #2 sporting event watched each weekend with over 4 million plus viewers each week."

"The sport has 80 million fans spread equally across the United States and those fans, on average, consume nearly 10 hours per week of NASCAR content across all media channels"

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The sport has 80 million fans, but only 4 million watch???

Meanwhile, back in reality...
http://www.espn.com/jayski/pages/story/_/id/22408275/nascar-2018-tv-ratings
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I think those numbers can be blamed because of the cable company who shows most races.
 
I find it interesting that the two guys that do all the talking out of the ownership group are are the two johnny come lately s that I have little interest in hearing from. I want to know what Roger Penske and Rick Hendrick and Joe Gibbs, and the Wood Brothers think, and from their own mouths, not through some filtered messenger. Until I hear it from THEM, I pretty much tune out anything coming from the ownership side of things.
 
Team Penske said:
I think those numbers can be blamed because of the cable company who shows most races.
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It comes back to nascar signing with the networks with the best offer, even though coverage was spotty. Fox sports was trying to build their FS1 and FS2 channels. Signing 1/2 the season with them at that time didn't help viewership.
 
FenderBumper said:
It comes back to nascar signing with the networks with the best offer, even though coverage was spotty. Fox sports was trying to build their FS1 and FS2 channels. Signing 1/2 the season with them at that time didn't help viewership.
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TSN has all the Canadian rights to TV. We do get X and cup races and sometimes Cup qualifying. No trucks but I see I can tune to MAV TV and get that sometimes.
I don't get any of the shows after the race or during the week and I am not upping my Satellite bill any further for them.
 
Team Penske said:
TSN has all the Canadian rights to TV. We do get X and cup races and sometimes Cup qualifying. No trucks but I see I can tune to MAV TV and get that sometimes.
I don't get any of the shows after the race or during the week and I am not upping my Satellite bill any further for them.
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I didn't realize you are in Canada. That's whole different matter. I'm thinking a VPN and streaming is your only choice.
 
FenderBumper said:
It comes back to nascar signing with the networks with the best offer, even though coverage was spotty. Fox sports was trying to build their FS1 and FS2 channels. Signing 1/2 the season with them at that time didn't help viewership.
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I have been complaining about the TV contracts since the first one was signed, and I DO blame those for starting some of the problems we have now. NASCAR went simply for the highest bidder, not who was going to be the best fit for the sport and which one or ones would help propel the sport further forward. The other huge mistake was letting Fox gobble up Speed. That SHOULD have been the NASCAR channel, and given themselves a home for all of the non "network" coverage, just like Golf, NFL or MLB. HUGE lack of forethought in my opinion. Now, no more posts from me until late tonight, as I'm off to go see the US Nationals today.
 
Formerjackman said:
I have been complaining about the TV contracts since the first one was signed, and I DO blame those for starting some of the problems we have now. NASCAR went simply for the highest bidder, not who was going to be the best fit for the sport and which one or ones would help propel the sport further forward. The other huge mistake was letting Fox gobble up Speed. That SHOULD have been the NASCAR channel, and given themselves a home for all of the non "network" coverage, just like Golf, NFL or MLB. HUGE lack of forethought in my opinion. Now, no more posts from me until late tonight, as I'm off to go see the US Nationals today.
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yep. I saw it the same way back when nascar signed their last big TV deal around 2005. The TV numbers were still big then. Having their own channel, and expanding to new areas and moving toward adopting the typical conference style sports structure was the way to grow.
 
FenderBumper said:
It comes back to nascar signing with the networks with the best offer, even though coverage was spotty. Fox sports was trying to build their FS1 and FS2 channels...
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Exactly. And NBC was trying to build up NBCSN.

The TV contract was pure exploitation of the fan base. NASCAR and the TV networks assumed fans would rush to get those other networks to watch the races. Even if their cable/sat bill went way up. That isn't quite what has happened.

"Now NASCAR has to hope that while it got a premium rate that its exposure doesn’t take a hit by being on two unproven networks... 'Why did NASCAR do it?' Pilson said. 'Well, they did it for the money. And the expectation that over a period of time NBC Sports will get beyond 80 million (households) to 90 million to 100 million with their product driving subscription rates.'

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nasc...etwork-contract-fox-sports-1-nbc-deal-ratings


If the information at the link below is accurate, as of May 2018, NBCSN and FS1 were each in about 83 million or so homes. That's a far cry from 100 million homes.
https://sportstvratings.com/how-muc...2017-cable-coverage-estimates-2-2-2-2-2/8885/
https://sportstvratings.com/how-muc...2017-cable-coverage-estimates-2-2-2-2-2/8885/

I hope all NASCAR stakeholders are preparing for a much smaller TV contract when the current deals expire.
 
Candace66 said:
Exactly. And NBC was trying to build up NBCSN.

The TV contract was pure exploitation of the fan base. NASCAR and the TV networks assumed fans would rush to get those other networks to watch the races. Even if their cable/sat bill went way up. That isn't quite what has happened.

"Now NASCAR has to hope that while it got a premium rate that its exposure doesn’t take a hit by being on two unproven networks... 'Why did NASCAR do it?' Pilson said. 'Well, they did it for the money. And the expectation that over a period of time NBC Sports will get beyond 80 million (households) to 90 million to 100 million with their product driving subscription rates.'
.
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I recall saying much the same thing when those deals were signed. IMO, those moves contributed in a big way to nascars fall. If the economy is bad, make sure everyone who wants can watch on TV, which is where the real money is. Short sighted profits over growing the sport. The Brian era has been mostly a disaster for nascar.
 
FenderBumper said:
I recall saying much the same thing when those deals were signed. IMO, those moves contributed in a big way to nascars fall. If the economy is bad, make sure everyone who wants can watch on TV, which is where the real money is. Short sighted profits over growing the sport. The Brian era has been mostly a disaster for nascar.
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Leaving out the TV people is a bit light when passing around the pointing finger.
 
FenderBumper said:
TV people?
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instead of growth in the future when signed, a weak economy and changing technology has contributed to cord cutting. I agree about Brian, he findsd a hole to crawl into when the going got tough, but he is one of the multitude of reasons for the decline. We have heard them all 1,523 times.
 
StandOnIt said:
instead of growth in the future when signed, a weak economy and changing technology has contributed to cord cutting. I agree about Brian, he findsd a hole to crawl into when the going got tough, but he is one of the multitude of reasons for the decline. We have heard them all 1,523 times.
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Your point?
 
Formerjackman said:
I have been complaining about the TV contracts since the first one was signed, and I DO blame those for starting some of the problems we have now. NASCAR went simply for the highest bidder, not who was going to be the best fit for the sport and which one or ones would help propel the sport further forward. The other huge mistake was letting Fox gobble up Speed. That SHOULD have been the NASCAR channel, and given themselves a home for all of the non "network" coverage, just like Golf, NFL or MLB. HUGE lack of forethought in my opinion. Now, no more posts from me until late tonight, as I'm off to go see the US Nationals today.
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Nascar tried twice but couldn't. They tried to get a nascar channel in the early to mid 00's but turner owned NASCAR.com and they couldn't. Once they bought back the rights they hired a few people to look into its own channel. A minor setback was when speed turned into fs1 but they continued. Plan was to show old races, regional races live or next day, shows, and truck and xfinity practice. Something happened and the 4 guys went to work for the NFL to bring exclusive content on Snapchat. That killed that plan. Maybe in the future it could happen.
 
Candace66 said:
Exactly. And NBC was trying to build up NBCSN.

The TV contract was pure exploitation of the fan base. NASCAR and the TV networks assumed fans would rush to get those other networks to watch the races. Even if their cable/sat bill went way up. That isn't quite what has happened.

"Now NASCAR has to hope that while it got a premium rate that its exposure doesn’t take a hit by being on two unproven networks... 'Why did NASCAR do it?' Pilson said. 'Well, they did it for the money. And the expectation that over a period of time NBC Sports will get beyond 80 million (households) to 90 million to 100 million with their product driving subscription rates.'

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nasc...etwork-contract-fox-sports-1-nbc-deal-ratings


If the information at the link below is accurate, as of May 2018, NBCSN and FS1 were each in about 83 million or so homes. That's a far cry from 100 million homes.
https://sportstvratings.com/how-muc...2017-cable-coverage-estimates-2-2-2-2-2/8885/

I hope all NASCAR stakeholders are preparing for a much smaller TV contract when the current deals expire.
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Everyone is looking at 2020 to see how tv contracts will be. No one saw cord cutting coming and leagues are seeing if they can sign a tv cohtract for less money but sell online content for more money and actually make more money than previous tv contracts since they have to resources of income.
 
rowdy3 said:
Nascar tried twice but couldn't. They tried to get a nascar channel in the early to mid 00's but turner owned NASCAR.com and they couldn't. Once they bought back the rights they hired a few people to look into its own channel. A minor setback was when speed turned into fs1 but they continued. Plan was to show old races, regional races live or next day, shows, and truck and xfinity practice. Something happened and the 4 guys went to work for the NFL to bring exclusive content on Snapchat. That killed that plan. Maybe in the future it could happen.
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They were always a day late and a dollar short. I began to see the need for a NASCAR channel clear back in the mid-90's, and yet they not only let Fox snap up the Speed Channel, but in 2000, they then failed to leverage the new Fox TV deal into a NASCAR/Fox partnership that still could have made Speed the home for NASCAR as well as other racing and auto enthusiast programming and prevented Fox from flipping Speed into just another sports channel down the road. Then, as you pointed out, they completely bungled the digital content by giving up the rights to Turner. For a bunch that was always claiming they wanted to be as big as the NFL, they sure as hell weren't paying much attention to the NFL was actually DOING. The road map on how to do all of this was right in front of them, and they STILL screwed it up.
 
Candace66 said:
The truth hurts, doesn't it? Judging by their actions, the France family is aware.
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Yep, and as the last decade has shown they can't figure out how to fix it. LMAO, maybe because they've had their heads in the sand (like much of the fan base) trying to explain away the lack of attendance, the ratings, and the fact that they don't register on sports radio or TV unless it is a NASCAR related program. Seriously, at least golf gets talked about on sports radio. With NASCAR its the sound crickets and dead airwaves.
 
I don't think I have my head stuck in the sand. I KNOW full well the sport has problems.
But, what would you have me do about it? I'm at a loss as to my role in making the sport grow, or appeal to more/younger fans.
I watch the races. I do buy sponsor products when they work for me. I can't attend
the races as I once did (7-10 a year) because I simply don't have the funds. What else
can I do?
 
Towmater said:
Yep, and as the last decade has shown they can't figure out how to fix it. LMAO, maybe because they've had their heads in the sand (like much of the fan base) trying to explain away the lack of attendance, the ratings, and the fact that they don't register on sports radio or TV unless it is a NASCAR related program. Seriously, at least golf gets talked about on sports radio. With NASCAR its the sound crickets and dead airwaves.
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oh goody, thanks again for the reminder, I'm working hard figuring that stuff out and all while spitting out the sand..now what.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I don't think I have my head stuck in the sand. I KNOW full well the sport has problems.
But, what would you have me do about it? I'm at a loss as to my role in making the sport grow, or appeal to more/younger fans.
I watch the races. I do buy sponsor products when they work for me. I can't attend
the races as I once did (7-10 a year) because I simply don't have the funds. What else
can I do?
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The post you replied to states much of the fan base. It doesn't state all of it. However, if you want an answer then this might apply:

Stop looking to the glory days for answers. The world has changed. Younger people aren't looking to spend 8 to 48 hours at an event like they did in the past. The other major sports have figured out that people like scoring, i.e., excitement, and a shorter window that the crowds that attend the event are required to spend there to watch it.

Of course, someone will chime in with a "Thanks, that the 2000 time we've heard that" comment. Which I always laugh at - if you've heard it that much their must be at least a sliver of truth in it and ain't it funny that the "smart people" don't want to implement it cause "that ain't the way we've always done it". Guess what, "that ain't the way we've always done it" ain't working and hasn't worked in a long time.
 
Towmater said:
The post you replied to states much of the fan base. It doesn't state all of it. However, if you want an answer then this might apply:

Stop looking to the glory days for answers. The world has changed. Younger people aren't looking to spend 8 to 48 hours at an event like they did in the past. The other major sports have figured out that people like scoring, i.e., excitement, and a shorter window that the crowds that attend the event are required to spend there to watch it.

Of course, someone will chime in with a "Thanks, that the 2000 time we've heard that" comment. Which I always laugh at - if you've heard it that much their must be at least a sliver of truth in it and ain't it funny that the "smart people" don't want to implement it cause "that ain't the way we've always done it". Guess what, "that ain't the way we've always done it" ain't working and hasn't worked in a long time.
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yeah there ya go that will fix everything
 
Yes, because looking for excitement, like passing for the lead (without a caution and a restart) would be such a disappointing and boring thing to happen...ROFLMAO.
 
Towmater said:
The post you replied to states much of the fan base. It doesn't state all of it. However, if you want an answer then this might apply:

Stop looking to the glory days for answers. The world has changed. Younger people are looking to spend 8 to 48 hours at an event like they did in the past. The other major sports have figured out that people like scoring, i.e., excitement, and a shorter window that the crowds that attend the event are required to spend there to watch it.

Of course, someone will chime in with a "Thanks, that the 2000 time we've heard that" comment. Which I always laugh at - if you've heard it that much their must be at least a sliver of truth in it and ain't it funny that the "smart people" don't want to implement it cause "that ain't the way we've always done it". Guess what, "that ain't the way we've always done it" ain't working and hasn't worked in a long time.
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That's why these races need to be shorter, 300- 350 miles, no more than 400 laps on a short track. Get everything in one day, qualifying , practice, race. I'd actually like to see Trucks 75 laps, Xfinity 100 laps then Cup 150 laps on a 1.5 in the same day. Charge $50-$75 for tickets, I'd go. It's all about bang for the buck, no one wants to pay 100 dollars for one race anymore. When I go to a local tour event, I get the regular 5 or 6 divisions plus the tour race for $40. The days of 500 lap 500 mile races are redundant, it's sleep Ville, make it exciting ...not dull.
 
Would it have mattered anyway if NASCAR had its own channel or had stayed on Network TV?

10 years ago who would have expected...
1. Cord cutting
2. The decline in value for mass-media advertising (example- TV commercials) for social media and pinpointed consumer advertising
3. Cell phone bills destroying people's disposable income for actual fun things like attending spectator sports
4. The inability for people in their 20s and 30s (the prime advertising demos) to afford things like cable TV...never mind the things cable TV was advertising to them...buying a new Toyota Camry, a new bed from Furniture Row, solar panels from DC solar...

The NFL finally cracking is proof that this is not a NASCAR problem...its a change in society. Sports used to be (and still are) mainstream in American society but that is QUICKLY changing as society and technology change.
 
Towmater said:
The post you replied to states much of the fan base. It doesn't state all of it. However, if you want an answer then this might apply:

Stop looking to the glory days for answers. The world has changed. Younger people aren't looking to spend 8 to 48 hours at an event like they did in the past. The other major sports have figured out that people like scoring, i.e., excitement, and a shorter window that the crowds that attend the event are required to spend there to watch it.

Of course, someone will chime in with a "Thanks, that the 2000 time we've heard that" comment. Which I always laugh at - if you've heard it that much their must be at least a sliver of truth in it and ain't it funny that the "smart people" don't want to implement it cause "that ain't the way we've always done it". Guess what, "that ain't the way we've always done it" ain't working and hasn't worked in a long time.
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Since I'm not one of the "smart people" or even someone in charge of anything, I still don't see anything I can do to improve the sport.
I've made my thoughts about the state of the sport clear to NASCAR -- and I don't mean the Fan Council, either. Cue the form letter from Daytona thanking me for writing.
 
Mopardh9 said:
That's why these races need to be shorter, 300- 350 miles, no more than 400 laps on a short track. Get everything in one day, qualifying , practice, race. I'd actually like to see Trucks 75 laps, Xfinity 100 laps then Cup 150 laps on a 1.5 in the same day. Charge $50-$75 for tickets, I'd go. It's all about bang for the buck, no one wants to pay 100 dollars for one race anymore. When I go to a local tour event, I get the regular 5 or 6 divisions plus the tour race for $40. The days of 500 lap 500 mile races are redundant, it's sleep Ville, make it exciting ...not dull.
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At least that's thinking outside the box. Why not try it? Heck, the owners would save money doing it that way. Less tires to buy, less money out to houses and feed their employees staying at the event. Oh, the tracks shouldn't allow the fans to bring in alcohol. If you want to drink you should have to buy it there. They'd make up the money lost on a several day event that way. Easy to do, you only serve it in certain areas in plastic cups, fans have to stay to drink it there (like a beer garden or restaurant), and any other alcohol found is subject to confiscation and the fan being bounced out of the event.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Since I'm not one of the "smart people" or even someone in charge of anything, I still don't see anything I can do to improve the sport.
I've made my thoughts about the state of the sport clear to NASCAR -- and I don't mean the Fan Council, either. Cue the form letter from Daytona thanking me for writing.
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OK, and you always come in and bash the fact that I see issues. Great, you have an opinion on the subject as do I. I don't attempt to silence you when you bring it up though.
 
Towmater said:
At least that's thinking outside the box. Why not try it? Heck, the owners would save money doing it that way. Less tires to buy, less money out to houses and feed their employees staying at the event. Oh, the tracks shouldn't allow the fans to bring in alcohol. If you want to drink you should have to buy it there. They'd make up the money lost on a several day event that way. Easy to do, you only serve it in certain areas in plastic cups, fans have to stay to drink it there (like a beer garden or restaurant), and any other alcohol found is subject to confiscation and the fan being bounced out of the event.
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I don't see any of us having the pull to tell NASCAR to try anything.
And as for the beer, if anything would convince someone not to go, it would be forbidding coolers. Quick way to lose fans.
 
Towmater said:
OK, and you always come in and bash the fact that I see issues. Great, you have an opinion on the subject as do I. I don't attempt to silence you when you bring it up though.
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I'm not bashing anything. I also see the issues. It's just that I'm one of the little people who have no say in what goes on in the office at Daytona.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I don't see any of us having the pull to tell NASCAR to try anything.
And as for the beer, if anything would convince someone not to go, it would be forbidding coolers. Quick way to lose fans.
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Baseball, football, baseball, and hockey don't allow the fans to bring in alcohol. Why NASCAR does I haven't a clue. Maybe that one of those "we always done it that way" things that needs to be changed.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I'm not bashing anything. I also see the issues. It's just that I'm one of the little people who have no say in what goes on in the office at Daytona.
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Great, and this is the NASCAR death bed thread. Isn't this the place to chat about the issues surround the sport and why it is dying/having fan flee at an alarming rate and possible solutions to those issues? If not, then I guess I misunderstood the thread.
 
Beer sales at a track are strictly up to the tracks. If I remember correctly, Texas had to get Denton County to vote "wet" in order to sell beer
in the "beer garden".
There was no problem bring your own, the track just couldn't sell it.
 
Towmater said:
Baseball, football, baseball, and hockey don't allow the fans to bring in alcohol. Why NASCAR does I haven't a clue. Maybe that one of those "we always done it that way" things that needs to be changed.
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nope you got that right at least..they sell it at the stadiums for inflated prices.
 
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