NASCAR Death Bed

To grow, one of the things NASCAR has to do is, go international with it's product at a greater rate than they are today. JMHO

On a personal level, I like the sport, it is very entertaining to me and I avoid getting caught up in the minutia as much as possible. I could care less how they do what they do as long as 40 bad ass hotrods show up each week along with the supporting series and race their butt off.
 
sdj said:
To grow, one of the things NASCAR has to do is, go international with it's product at a greater rate than they are today. JMHO

On a personal level, I like the sport, it is very entertaining to me and I avoid getting caught up in the minutia as much as possible. I could care less how they do what they do as long as 40 bad ass hotrods show up each week along with the supporting series and race their butt off.
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I think that going international is a great idea as wherever you go there’s an appetite for American culture. Buick’s they can’t give away at home are big sellers in China and Levi’s denim is another hot commodity in some parts.

I’m looking forward to seeing what the new rules look like and seeing if they move the needle in a positive direction. I think Nascar has a good core base of fans. They may have some things they like better than others but if it’s Nascar they are watching.

From what has been said on this thread normal market forces that apply to most other businesses don’t apply to Nascar. In other words they can lose market share but not feel an impact. Other businesses would kill for that model.
 
mack said:
The sad reality of racing (NASCAR) today is simple to me. If you want to compete in the Cup series, you have to be able to compete financially with Hendrick, Penske, Ganassi, Hass and Toyota. The four individuals mentioned are wealthy beyond my wildest imagination. I'm guessing Coach Gibbs is very comfortable, but not in the other fours league, hence I mentioned Toyota. Vissers championship was a truly impressive accomplishment. To some degree it reminded me of Kulwicki in 1992. I think the current spending spree is why we no longer see Rahmoc, Morgan McClure , and a host of drivers turned owners. Not to mention former top tier teams like Rousch have fell way behind.The monied few have made it a nearly unviable goal of many. I still love it, and probably always will. But it has priced itself out of the common folks league. Perhaps
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great take on the state of the state. one is missing though. The France family after all of the smoke cleared and the who ah babbeling reported income..that's reported income of 225 million bucks last year, down from 226 million the year before. The France's and the 4 above do not experience "recessions" like normal folks do. Does anybody think the France's got together and had a talk about tightening their belts we only made 225 million last year? Start selling the furniture folks the ship is a sinking. It's amazing what a bunch of self appointed expert reporters with hopefully a degree in journalism can continue to attack a sport and influence the gullible few.
 
As far as I can tell, nobody in the sport is starving. The front dogs set the pace. So everybody else has to catch up, (i. e. spend more) or be happy to run mid pack on back. When King Richard ruled the roost, he had to have people to beat. Dale Earnhardt Sr. was one of those guys who came through the ranks in under funded equipment. Its the nature of the sport. NASCAR is healthier than some folks realize. Theyre still making money. Yes the crowds have shrunk, but the bank account is good.
 
can't say a thing about the recent changes without starting a sheet storm, but taking a bit of the aero money spending out of the equation by dirtying the cars up might tighten things up a bit. I won't be surprised if the same big boys will be at the front, but back in the dirty air I am hopeful for more passing. The big four or five players had to ok that IMO. It wouldn't happen without their support. So if anything IMO the declining gate probably motivated them to move in that direction. But thinking they have released their stranglehold on the competition? nah, it might help some of the backmarkers, but it is like the big kids on the playground letting some of the smaller kids use one of their swing sets, an act of charity.
 
I understand what you are saying about the 225 million SOI, but that's only part of the story. If I make 225 million, I never work another day in my life.. If Warren Buffet only makes 225 million, heads roll. Considering the size of NASCAR and their level of investment and debt load, 225 might be quite good, or it might suck to no end. Without knowing the whole story (which we won't) we really can't judge that result. How much did they make in 2010, 2004, 2000, 1995 etc?
 
Formerjackman said:
I understand what you are saying about the 225 million SOI, but that's only part of the story. If I make 225 million, I never work another day in my life.. If Warren Buffet only makes 225 million, heads roll. Considering the size of NASCAR and their level of investment and debt load, 225 might be quite good, or it might suck to no end. Without knowing the whole story (which we won't) we really can't judge that result. How much did they make in 2010, 2004, 2000, 1995 etc?
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you can look it up their earnings are public.
 
mack said:
As far as I can tell, nobody in the sport is starving. The front dogs set the pace. So everybody else has to catch up, (i. e. spend more) or be happy to run mid pack on back. When King Richard ruled the roost, he had to have people to beat. Dale Earnhardt Sr. was one of those guys who came through the ranks in under funded equipment. Its the nature of the sport. NASCAR is healthier than some folks realize. Theyre still making money. Yes the crowds have shrunk, but the bank account is good.
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“Yes the crowds have shrunk, but the bank account is good.”

That is what is so cool with Nascar as having people pay to attend the races and others watch from home is nice but not important.
The Frances are wealthy as well as the top owners so everything else is just gravy. Freakin awesome for today and tomorrow.
 
yep business making a profit stay in business. It's that simple AND it is their business. Hand ringers are going to wring. oh they didn't make enough, oh this or that is a huge problem, on and on. I do think it is funny though.
 
Formerjackman said:
I understand what you are saying about the 225 million SOI, but that's only part of the story. If I make 225 million, I never work another day in my life.. If Warren Buffet only makes 225 million, heads roll. Considering the size of NASCAR and their level of investment and debt load, 225 might be quite good, or it might suck to no end. Without knowing the whole story (which we won't) we really can't judge that result. How much did they make in 2010, 2004, 2000, 1995 etc?
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I hear what you are saying but the narrative of Nascar not being subject to market forces is a really different avenue to go down.
 
Formerjackman said:
I understand what you are saying about the 225 million SOI, but that's only part of the story. If I make 225 million, I never work another day in my life.. If Warren Buffet only makes 225 million, heads roll. Considering the size of NASCAR and their level of investment and debt load, 225 might be quite good, or it might suck to no end. Without knowing the whole story (which we won't) we really can't judge that result. How much did they make in 2010, 2004, 2000, 1995 etc?
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no you really don't understand, making a profit is the whole story. Racing isn't a charity or a tax payer funded sport. Tracks go out of business all of the time if they don't make money.
 
If and when the day comes NASCAR ceases to be a viable, profitable company, then so be it. As it stands, their in a downturn, and it could turn around for them. One thing is for certain, they won't be on this forum asking for advice on how to run THEIR BUSINESS . They didn't become the behemoth they are because they're stupid. The only thing fans can do is support the sport. Then wait and see what happens. No one on here knows the future.
 
StandOnIt said:
no you really don't understand, making a profit is the whole story. Racing isn't a charity or a tax payer funded sport. Tracks go out of business all of the time if they don't make money.
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No, I DO understand. I'll give you an example. I follow railroading, it's one of my MANY hobbies. Norfolk Southern Corp earned 702 million dollars in the fourth quarter of 2018 on an operating ratio of 65.4%, both really nice numbers, yet Wall Street is pissed to no end and the CEO is on the hot seat. If just making a profit was the whole story, Wall Street would be happy, but they want a higher return on the money invested. As I said, 225 million MIGHT be a good number, or it might NOT be.
 
mack said:
If and when the day comes NASCAR ceases to be a viable, profitable company, then so be it. As it stands, their in a downturn, and it could turn around for them. One thing is for certain, they won't be on this forum asking for advice on how to run THEIR BUSINESS . They didn't become the behemoth they are because they're stupid. The only thing fans can do is support the sport. Then wait and see what happens. No one on here knows the future.
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when they say they want to attract more manufacturers to the sport, ya don't have to look very far to what IMSA is doing, record manufacturers in their series now. Problem now is when a manufacture that wants to do so asks how much? they have to pick him up off the floor.:D
 
Formerjackman said:
No, I DO understand. I'll give you an example. I follow railroading, it's one of my MANY hobbies. Norfolk Southern Corp earned 702 million dollars in the fourth quarter of 2018 on an operating ratio of 65.4%, both really nice numbers, yet Wall Street is pissed to no end and the CEO is on the hot seat. If just making a profit was the whole story, Wall Street would be happy, but they want a higher return on the money invested. As I said, 225 million MIGHT be a good number, or it might NOT be.
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Nascar is owned by one family, do you not get that? Wall street or CEO whatever doesn't apply. C'mon man at least know what a family owned business is compared to a stock holder one
 
mack said:
If and when the day comes NASCAR ceases to be a viable, profitable company, then so be it. As it stands, their in a downturn, and it could turn around for them. One thing is for certain, they won't be on this forum asking for advice on how to run THEIR BUSINESS . They didn't become the behemoth they are because they're stupid. The only thing fans can do is support the sport. Then wait and see what happens. No one on here knows the future.
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You have to keep in mind that even though Nascar appears to be in a downtown they really aren’t. Normal market forces don’t apply to them.
 
StandOnIt said:
Nascar is owned by one family, do you not get that? Wall street or CEO whatever doesn't apply. C'mon man at least know what a family owned business is compared to a stock holder one
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For sure and ISC is not a publicly traded company and therefore has no responsibility to maximize shareholder value.
 
IanMcVittie said:
Exactly so if you are raking in millions like Nascar is you sure can’t be in a downturn. Whatever amount the are losing from attendance is just chump change to them.
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pretty much, I am sure they are concerned, but they spent more the last couple of years re doing race tracks out of their back pockets.
 
StandOnIt said:
shares are up over 5 bucks a share.
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I’m agreeing with you for goodness sake. No one has come along to disprove a scintilla of what you have said. I suspect it is because they realize it would be folly. Profits are good and share prices are up so what else does a person need to know?
 
Like anything that has to do with attendance, Tracks, stadiums, movie houses have a break even point and the rest is profit, they are far from full when they make that line.
 
StandOnIt said:
pretty much, I am sure they are concerned, but they spent more the last couple of years re doing race tracks out of their back pockets.
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No issues here as Nascar and ISC are kicking butt. They make millions before any attendance or broadcast revenue are added to the pile so life really is good.
 
StandOnIt said:
Like anything that has to do with attendance, Tracks, stadiums, movie houses have a break even point and the rest is profit, they are far from full when they make that line.
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They probably don’t even need to sell a ticket to be rolling in it. I know that is true for NFL teams so why not Nascar tracks too?
 
maybe deathbedders can make a correlation between home ownership and Nascar attendance. looks about the same to me and much more valid as to the state of the state.:D
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StandOnIt said:
Nascar is owned by one family, do you not get that? Wall street or CEO whatever doesn't apply. C'mon man at least know what a family owned business is compared to a stock holder one
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I understand that NASCAR is family owned, just as is the company I work for, and I'm telling you that THEY don't just look at a profit number and say all is well either. There is FAR more that goes into it than that, first and foremost, are we getting an adequate return on capital, and are we making enough to cover our debt load? You're looking at it the way ole Henry Ford did, who's method of operating was that if there was more money in the drawer at the end of the month compared to the start of the month, things couldn't be too bad. Never mind that it might have cost him three times as much to make that profit than his competitors.
 
Formerjackman said:
I understand that NASCAR is family owned, just as is the company I work for, and I'm telling you that THEY don't just look at a profit number and say all is well either. There is FAR more that goes into it than that, first and foremost, are we getting an adequate return on capital, and are we making enough to cover our debt load? You're looking at it the way ole Henry Ford did, who's method of operating was that if there was more money in the drawer at the end of the month compared to the start of the month, things couldn't be too bad. Never mind that it might have cost him three times as much to make that profit than his competitors.
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what competitors..they went out of business. :D:p Man this is getting comical I forget the exact number but there were something like 250 car makers when Ford was in business. Look man you can go round and round the pole, but nothing trumps profit
 
Formerjackman said:
I understand that NASCAR is family owned, just as is the company I work for, and I'm telling you that THEY don't just look at a profit number and say all is well either. There is FAR more that goes into it than that, first and foremost, are we getting an adequate return on capital, and are we making enough to cover our debt load? You're looking at it the way ole Henry Ford did, who's method of operating was that if there was more money in the drawer at the end of the month compared to the start of the month, things couldn't be too bad. Never mind that it might have cost him three times as much to make that profit than his competitors.
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tell ya what, Nascar spent this year out of their own pocket 178 million on Phoenix raceway and still made a profit of 225 million. Right now they are putting in a huge tunnel at Dega that will be in this years budget, do ya really think they are in trouble when they show 1 million dollars less than last year?
 
C'mon man, this is uncalled for. If two people want to debate, what is it to you?. If you want to join in the discussion and add a thought on the subject, have at it.
 
Formerjackman said:
I understand that NASCAR is family owned, just as is the company I work for, and I'm telling you that THEY don't just look at a profit number and say all is well either. There is FAR more that goes into it than that, first and foremost, are we getting an adequate return on capital, and are we making enough to cover our debt load? You're looking at it the way ole Henry Ford did, who's method of operating was that if there was more money in the drawer at the end of the month compared to the start of the month, things couldn't be too bad. Never mind that it might have cost him three times as much to make that profit than his competitors.
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In the real world people get fired all the time even though the company made a profit under their stewardship.In fact you have to forecast what your profit will be and you better hit your target. Apparently Nascar does not work that way though.
 
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IanMcVittie said:
In the real world people get fired all the time even though the company made a profit under their stewardship.In fact you have to forecast what your profit will be and you better hit your target. Apparently Nascar does not work that way though.
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nope. it is a family business, a huge one, but it should always be remembered that it is. They own the majority of public shares that are offered, something like 77%, the lion's share of the racing surfaces and facilities. on and on.
 
StandOnIt said:
nope. it is a family business, a huge one, but it should always be remembered that it is. They own the majority of public shares that are offered, something like 77%, the lion's share of the racing surfaces and facilities. on and on.
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I was only talking about what happens in the real world not with Nascar. CEO’s get replaced all the time for not hitting targets. A 100 million dollar profit may sound good but not if it should have been 200 million.

I realize this sort of thing is not applicable with Nascar as profit is profit and the size of the profit is not paramount.
 
StandOnIt said:
what competitors..they went out of business. :D:p Man this is getting comical I forget the exact number but there were something like 250 car makers when Ford was in business. Look man you can go round and round the pole, but nothing trumps profit
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Yeah, and when Henry died, the company was functionally bankrupt. If not for the guaranteed cost plus war contracts, they might NOT have been in business when Henry kicked the bucket in 1947. I think Ford Motor's net profit for 1946 was something like $50.00. A former GM man named Ernie Breech saved Ford and taught Henry II how to run the company.
 
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