NASCAR Death Bed

Formerjackman said:
I seem to recall that a change in ownership played a big roll in Wrangler no longer being the primary sponsor of the RCR #3. In 1986, VF Corporation, owner of Levi's bought Blue Bell Inc, the company behind Wrangler. I believe I remember reading articles in Winston Cup Scene that indicated that when Wrangler's deal when RCR came up for renewal, VF was unwilling to continue primary sponsorship, at least at the levels the soon to be three time Cup champion was commanding. How much GM's willingness to write a big check to their newest superstar, I can't say. If anybody has any more information on this, please come forward, but I'm under the impression that VF bailed, and GM was only too happy to step in.
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Exactly, sponsors come and go. Lowes moved on. A new sponsor has took their place on the #48. So as far as I can tell, all is well under that roof.
 
mack said:
Exactly, sponsors come and go. Lowes moved on. A new sponsor has took their place on the #48. So as far as I can tell, all is well under that roof.
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Gets pretty comical watching the deathbedders grasping at any straw.

Hendrick owns 130 Franchises, 96 Dealerships, 27 Brands, 30,000 Vehicles In Stock
and Ally, formally General Motors Acceptance Corporation GMAC can now finance any brand of car. I believe they call it B2B? Hendrick is so strong he leveraged that deal and Ally needed his business.
 
gnomesayin said:
What is the fan worry regarding driver incomes? Is there fear that up and coming racecar drivers are going to defect to the investment banking world instead?

There is certainly legitimate concern about the financial model for teams. Acknowledging that and discussing potential solutions is perhaps useful. Daily doomsday harping about it is not.
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I agree, drivers will race for a $1000 or 100,000. BUT you may have to change back to a time when team owners owned 2 cars and made less money. HMS having 500 employees is just way to many to be supported by 4 cars.
 
Team Penske said:
I agree, drivers will race for a $1000 or 100,000. BUT you may have to change back to a time when team owners owned 2 cars and made less money. HMS having 500 employees is just way to many to be supported by 4 cars.
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HMS will probably need to lay-off or reassign some of those employees to Rick Hendrick Hyundai
 
oh man dark days ahead right? only 225 million, how can they make it on that little amount.
 
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StandOnIt said:
I think we need to take up a collection for them, they only made 27 million in the fourth quarter.
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I wouldn’t do that but figuring out a way to stop the year over year attendance revenue losses would be really helpful don’t you think?
 
Naysayers generally naysay. Just the nature of the beast. Label themselves "realist", call those that disagree with their view"apologist" or whatever they can come up with. Always try to come across as near genius, have an incredible grasp of the obvious, and repeat themselves often. NASCAR/ISC is doing fine fiancially, that's the most important number they look at. My gut feeling is the folks at Daytona can grasp the empty seats. And I'm guessing they're working on it. I watched some outstanding races last year, so from my perspective the product was very good. Its up to NASCAR and the networks to market it. I wouldn't bet against them. They're professionals, naysayers aren't.
 
StandOnIt said:
doesn't look like it. But please your concern is genuine, continue to remind us how bad off Nascar is.
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I know you don’t see problems with dwindling attendance, historically low TV, ratings and a tough sponsorship climate. I’m good with it.
 
thanks man. we need to be informed just how tragic it is. I would like a bit of the 225 million they made this year though I have to admit.
 
mack said:
Naysayers generally naysay. Just the nature of the beast. Label themselves "realist", call those that disagree with their view"apologist" or whatever they can come up with. Always try to come across as near genius, have an incredible grasp of the obvious, and repeat themselves often. NASCAR/ISC is doing fine fiancially, that's the most important number they look at. My gut feeling is the folks at Daytona can grasp the empty seats. And I'm guessing they're working on it. I watched some outstanding races last year, so from my perspective the product was very good. Its up to NASCAR and the networks to market it. I wouldn't bet against them. They're professionals, naysayers aren't.
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Any guesses as to what point the “professionals” will start doing the job? Is it possible that the 2019 could be the start?
 
StandOnIt said:
my guess is as long as they are making millions they aren't as concerned as some are around here :D
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I would love to see packed grandstands again. I hope I live long enough to witness that. NASCAR is not in the fatalist/ desperate mode. When your business is making money and you're setting on a huge pile of cash to boot, you have adequate time to right the ship. Plus with Brian out of the top leadership role, that has to help steady the ship also. People can moan and whine, and play Paul Revere all they want to screaming doom and gloom. Fact is, NASCAR will get by just fine.
 
mack said:
I would love to see packed grandstands again. I hope I live long enough to witness that. NASCAR is not in the fatalist/ desperate mode. When your business is making money and you're setting on a huge pile of cash to boot, you have adequate time to right the ship. Plus with Brian out of the top leadership role, that has to steady the ship. People can moan and whine, and play Paul Revere all they want to screaming doom and gloom. Fact is, NASCAR will get by just fine.
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I never had any problem figuring out who to believe, a bunch of broke ass reporters and raters trying to live on click bait, or the bottom line of a financial statement. That is where the rubber hits the road, the rest is so much B.S. IMO. I have always watched the race and not the empty seats..seems like a waste of time, the cars and trucks are the show. But to each their own, I laugh a lot at the strangeness of it.
 
mack said:
I would love to see packed grandstands again. I hope I live long enough to witness that. NASCAR is not in the fatalist/ desperate mode. When your business is making money and you're setting on a huge pile of cash to boot, you have adequate time to right the ship. Plus with Brian out of the top leadership role, that has to help steady the ship also. People can moan and whine, and play Paul Revere all they want to screaming doom and gloom. Fact is, NASCAR will get by just fine.
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IMO the key to the future will be the next Broadcast deal. If Nascar can get around the same money or more they wil be in great shape. Some people feel it is a no brainer that Nascar will receive less but I don’t feel that way. I think it is possible they could score another valuable deal.
 
It don't matter what TV deal they get, another B.S. reporting deal that made it out that they won the lottery..click bait. Sporting events that get similar ratings are getting much more per year than Nascar is right now.
 
StandOnIt said:
It don't matter what TV deal they get, another B.S. reporting deal that made it out that they won the lottery..click bait. Sporting events that get similar ratings are getting much more per year than Nascar is right now.
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So overall things sound really positive. Admission revenue and attendance don’t really matter. Broadcast revenue doesn’t matter and demographics don’t impact the series.

As long as ISC is raking in the dough the teams, tracks and Nascar will all be in good stead. One day I’ll get around to reading the latest Nascar financials as they sound like an elixir.
 
yeah well financials are what makes it work, the rest is just that. Cars keep a rolling and looking at a very small area in a big whole is what some do. Nascar owns like 7 racing series world wide. Some keep forgetting that.
 
StandOnIt said:
yeah well financials are what makes it work, the rest is just that. Cars keep a rolling and looking at a very small area in a big whole is what some do. Nascar owns like 7 racing series world wide. Some keep forgetting that.
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Two big surprises for me: The first one is about attendance and attendance revenue being of no concern to ISC. The second one is about broadcast revenue as I know it means everything to the NFL but not as much to the NHL as it is still gate driven.
 
I wouldn't know. can't be too serious with the earnings they made this year. I'm sure you will keep us informed. probably make more on the bottom line with betting this year.
 
StandOnIt said:
I wouldn't know. can't be too serious with the earnings they made this year. I'm sure you will keep us informed. probably make more on the bottom line with betting this year.
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I’m hoping that someone like @gnomesayin weighs in on the issues we have discussed as he is sharp and is an interesting read.

IDK what ISC’s biggest source of revenue is but it has to be good if attendance and broadcast revenue are not that important.
 
I'm not a doomsayer, BUT, they always told me that even if you run a very successful operation, if you aren't growing, you're dying. So much of the revenue stream for the sport is based off of perception, and right now the perception just isn't very good. I agree that if they can stop the slide, they will be just fine, but it would be nice to see at least SOME indication that the rate of slide is slowing down, but last year sure wasn't what I was looking for.
 
That's your deal. I would think they are more concerned with the tax bite uncle sugar is going to want on 225 million bucks than a piddly less than 10% total on attendance revenue on a figure much smaller. And like I said, sporting events that draw similar ratings are making deals bigger than Nascar. I'm sure you will keep us informed of any changes.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not a doomsayer, BUT, they always told me that even if you run a very successful operation, if you aren't growing, you're dying. So much of the revenue stream for the sport is based off of perception, and right now the perception just isn't very good. I agree that if they can stop the slide, they will be just fine, but it would be nice to see at least SOME indication that the rate of slide is slowing down, but last year sure wasn't what I was looking for.
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they made 226 million last year compared to 225 this year. I guess you can make a deathbed out of it. Hard to tell with the track renovations they have been doing...taxpayer free.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not a doomsayer, BUT, they always told me that even if you run a very successful operation, if you aren't growing, you're dying. So much of the revenue stream for the sport is based off of perception, and right now the perception just isn't very good. I agree that if they can stop the slide, they will be just fine, but it would be nice to see at least SOME indication that the rate of slide is slowing down, but last year sure wasn't what I was looking for.
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SOI essentially said that lower attendance is not an issue for Nascar nor is lower viewership. I haven’t seen anyone try and debunk his assertions so maybe he is onto something.
 
IanMcVittie said:
I left a bunch of people out but my point is even if I wasn’t a member here I would still read due to a lot of the people.
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Presumably that’s how you spend your time between usernames.

As an aside, thank you for leaving me out of your character assessment of various and sundry forum members. I’m honored.
 
mack said:
Naysayers generally naysay. Just the nature of the beast. Label themselves "realist", call those that disagree with their view"apologist" or whatever they can come up with. Always try to come across as near genius, have an incredible grasp of the obvious, and repeat themselves often. NASCAR/ISC is doing fine fiancially, that's the most important number they look at. My gut feeling is the folks at Daytona can grasp the empty seats. And I'm guessing they're working on it. I watched some outstanding races last year, so from my perspective the product was very good. Its up to NASCAR and the networks to market it. I wouldn't bet against them. They're professionals, naysayers aren't.
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Well stated, Mack. Good job.
 
Let's not forget NASCAR runs the IMSA series as well and look at the state of sports car racing now. It continues to grow in popularity every year with the Michelin Pilot Challenge Series and the WeatherTech Sports Car series...

NASCAR is a lot smarter than we know... We may think the sport is dying, but hey it is what it is right now. A sport in transition from the "Golden" days now that the last of the true previous faces are gone in the Dale Jr, Gordon, Stewart, etc. Give it time.
 
"we"? sorry man I have never bought that line of B.S. around here from the jump. If Brain couldn't kill it , it couldn't be killed. Going to bounce back like a spider monkey.
 
I hate to see the decline in viewers and attendance as much as the next long time fan but times are a changin'.

Was reading this article about Mark Martin's thoughts on the decline and what he states rings true IMO.

I think we should continue to be true to what we are. Where we came from. I think the racing is really good now. But, I also recognize the fact that NASCAR is not the only sport that is struggling with their fan base. All sports are.

There’s a reason for that. Because young people have different interests. There’s competition for their interests, 1000 times over what it was when we grew up.
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Martin also noted that the youngest few generations simply aren’t into car culture in general like previous ones were, which is an opinion that’s hard to argue. But he reiterated that the “product is not the problem.”

The problem is, the world’s changing. And our generations are changing. You can do your best to fight that but it’s definitely a tough battle to try to bring new people’s eyes to our sport and keep ’em there.
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https://fansided.com/2018/07/25/mark-martin-best-take-decline-nascar-attendance-ratings/
 
mack said:
Big whoop. Maybe RCR managed their finances better than teams do today. Maybe they got by on less bling and and focused more on performance.
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Perhaps but then again perhaps not. FRR didn't really seem to be about "bling".

mack said:
The modern approach to racing has made it far too expensive. To many engineers, not enough actual race people. .
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I agree with this. Like many I believe the sport is too expensive. The product cost more than what one could get out of it. It is one of the reasons why younger drivers are in the seats. Owners can't afford to pay drivers what they used to pay them. The crap/equipment that is on pit road now compared to the past is amazing and the cost is insane. Gotta love spending a million dollars on development of a pit gun and then turning to NASCAR to have them get involved so save the owners from themselves.
 
The sad reality of racing (NASCAR) today is simple to me. If you want to compete in the Cup series, you have to be able to compete financially with Hendrick, Penske, Ganassi, Hass and Toyota. The four individuals mentioned are wealthy beyond my wildest imagination. I'm guessing Coach Gibbs is very comfortable, but not in the other fours league, hence I mentioned Toyota. Vissers championship was a truly impressive accomplishment. To some degree it reminded me of Kulwicki in 1992. I think the current spending spree is why we no longer see Rahmoc, Morgan McClure , and a host of drivers turned owners. Not to mention former top tier teams like Rousch have fell way behind.The monied few have made it a nearly unviable goal of many. I still love it, and probably always will. But it has priced itself out of the common folks league. Perhaps
 
However Mack, when I watch racing, I couldn't care less how wealthy the owner is. There are still cars racing 25th on back that are just as exciting to watch as the top 10. Unfortunately the only time they showed back there was when someone purposely turns the only female in the field. :D
 
I have always liked Mark Martin on and off the track. He says that racing is fine but young people won’t be interested due to the lack of car culture. If what Mark says is true then the long term future of Nascar is grim no?

Mark states that Nascar is not the only sport struggling with its fan base but does not indicate what other sports are. Does anyone know what sport’s fan base is struggling to the same extent as Nascar. MLB or golf maybe?
 
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