Silly Season 2023

Jorge De Guzman

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Didnt even know Blaney was a free-agent going into next year. Logano is too isnt he? Props to the Captain for keeping both negotiations minimally in-house as opposed to whats going on with Gibbs Family, Kyle Busch, and that TRD Honcho who loves to hear himself talk
 

Charlie Spencer

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Didnt even know Blaney was a free-agent going into next year. Logano is too isnt he? Props to the Captain for keeping both negotiations minimally in-house as opposed to whats going on with Gibbs Family, Kyle Busch, and that TRD Honcho who loves to hear himself talk
Ganassi and Palou over in Indy make Gibbs and KyBu look like a pre-marital trust-building workshop. But yeah, good on the Captain for getting his business done without unnecessary attention.
 

StandOnIt

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Didnt even know Blaney was a free-agent going into next year. Logano is too isnt he? Props to the Captain for keeping both negotiations minimally in-house as opposed to whats going on with Gibbs Family, Kyle Busch, and that TRD Honcho who loves to hear himself talk
That would be Wilson

1660753994810.png
 

Jorge De Guzman

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18 Cup wins including 3 600s and a Brickyard is a solid career
I dont want to deviate too much from this thread but I'll say this, what Kyle Larson did last year in the 5 I kinda hoped Kasey would have done with his time in the 5. I thought when he signed with HMS it was going to be great, I do miss watching him race Cup every week.
 

FLRacingFan

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Didnt even know Blaney was a free-agent going into next year. Logano is too isnt he? Props to the Captain for keeping both negotiations minimally in-house as opposed to whats going on with Gibbs Family, Kyle Busch, and that TRD Honcho who loves to hear himself talk
Logano’s runs out after 2023, so they have some more time than with Blaney. But they are actively working on it.
 

Formerjackman

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I dont want to deviate too much from this thread but I'll say this, what Kyle Larson did last year in the 5 I kinda hoped Kasey would have done with his time in the 5. I thought when he signed with HMS it was going to be great, I do miss watching him race Cup every week.

Yes, that was my point. I think many of us thought (or at least hoped) that Kasey was going to be the next Jeff Gordon/Jimmie Johnson at HMS and put up some really gaudy numbers. His career was solid, but I don't think it was ever what most people expected, and much of it didn't even happen in what at least on paper was his best team and car. I don't know if it was the beginning of his health issues starting to show, but Kasey always seemed kind of lost once he got to HMS, and sometimes when TV would interview him, especially after a wreck, he just seemed kind of "deer in headlights" to me. Sometimes he seemed to me like he barely knew where he was. To his credit, his final win might of been a **** show of a race, be he showed real nerves of steel on those last couple restarts in the gathering darkness at Indy. It was a fleeting glimpse of what I think we all had expected when he came to the 5.
 

AuzGrams

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I never thought Kasey would light the world on fire in the 5 after what happened with the 88 in 2009 & 2010.

I just feel like they were A- drivers compared to 2 of the top 10 drivers of all time (unfortunately I never really rooted for them when they drove but respect the talent a lot). Keith Rodden was just not the right CC, but not nearly as good as Kenny Francis.
 

jaqua19

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Yes, that was my point. I think many of us thought (or at least hoped) that Kasey was going to be the next Jeff Gordon/Jimmie Johnson at HMS and put up some really gaudy numbers. His career was solid, but I don't think it was ever what most people expected, and much of it didn't even happen in what at least on paper was his best team and car. I don't know if it was the beginning of his health issues starting to show, but Kasey always seemed kind of lost once he got to HMS, and sometimes when TV would interview him, especially after a wreck, he just seemed kind of "deer in headlights" to me. Sometimes he seemed to me like he barely knew where he was. To his credit, his final win might of been a **** show of a race, be he showed real nerves of steel on those last couple restarts in the gathering darkness at Indy. It was a fleeting glimpse of what I think we all had expected when he came to the 5.
I do this thing where I will rewatch older seasons in their entirety during exercise, busy time, work paperwork etc. Right now I'm watching the entire 2004 season. I started it about 2 months ago.

Kasey Kahne in 2004 blew my mind. He genuinely looks like a top five driver in the sport in that 9 car.

I agree in terms of thinking what could have been in the 5 car, However in terms of being a week in and week out contender I think he may have honestly peaked in 2004-2006.

I think most of us had the future champion label stapled all over him. And frankly he was never even close

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jaqua19

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Yes, that was my point. I think many of us thought (or at least hoped) that Kasey was going to be the next Jeff Gordon/Jimmie Johnson at HMS and put up some really gaudy numbers. His career was solid, but I don't think it was ever what most people expected, and much of it didn't even happen in what at least on paper was his best team and car. I don't know if it was the beginning of his health issues starting to show, but Kasey always seemed kind of lost once he got to HMS, and sometimes when TV would interview him, especially after a wreck, he just seemed kind of "deer in headlights" to me. Sometimes he seemed to me like he barely knew where he was. To his credit, his final win might of been a **** show of a race, be he showed real nerves of steel on those last couple restarts in the gathering darkness at Indy. It was a fleeting glimpse of what I think we all had expected when he came to the 5.
Dale Jr spoke of his time at HMS with regret.

I don't think it was just that. The 24/48 camp was always super tight. But we've heard stories about how HARD Jimmie and Chad worked, and specifically how business like the 24/48 shop was.

Kasey had the talent, Jr certainly had the talent to find more success. But I feel as though to the 5/88 camp, it was show up, go to work, and go home.

There was a hunger and a drive to the 24/48 camp that seemed to transcend driver talent, imo.

Kasey is generally timid, shy and soft spoken. Maybe the super motivated white collar work ethic of Jimmie, Chad and HMS just wasn't something that brought the best out of Kasey.

I have a similar perosnality to Kasey and I know I would be uncomfortable in a work environment that seemed as high strung as the one Jimmie, Chad and Jeff sort of fostered.

People have to click. And I dont think the fit was right for Kasey

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AuzGrams

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Dale Jr spoke of his time at HMS with regret.

I don't think it was just that. The 24/48 camp was always super tight. But we've heard stories about how HARD Jimmie and Chad worked, and specifically how business like the 24/48 shop was.

Kasey had the talent, Jr certainly had the talent to find more success. But I feel as though to the 5/88 camp, it was show up, go to work, and go home.

There was a hunger and a drive to the 24/48 camp that seemed to transcend driver talent, imo.

Kasey is generally timid, shy and soft spoken. Maybe the super motivated white collar work ethic of Jimmie, Chad and HMS just wasn't something that brought the best out of Kasey.

I have a similar perosnality to Kasey and I know I would be uncomfortable in a work environment that seemed as high strung as the one Jimmie, Chad and Jeff sort of fostered.

People have to click. And I dont think the fit was right for Kasey

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Kasey was fine with Kenny Francis. I think Hendrick as a whole was off at times after 2014 besides Dale Jr being really good 2012-2016.

Also it was the 5/24 & 48/88 2012-
 

Formerjackman

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I would have thought coming from a Ray Evernham background and having Kenny Francis there as kind of a security blanket was going to bode well for him, but it just never quite clicked. He was OK but not great with Francis, and the Rodden pairing NEVER seemed right to me. As far as fitting in at HMS, I would think the other three drivers would be pretty easy to get along with, and even in the demanding 48/whomever shop, the consensus seems to be that once Chad got rid of the slackers and malcontents and learned to delegate authority, it was a fairly loose and fun shop to work in. If you can get an entire group to buy in and pull in the same direction, it seems a lot less like work.
 

JJ_14

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I get the hate for Custer, but honestly he's had a ton of bad luck. He's shown he can win at all levels. I think he needs more time, it'll do wonders for him.
 

AuzGrams

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I would have thought coming from a Ray Evernham background and having Kenny Francis there as kind of a security blanket was going to bode well for him, but it just never quite clicked. He was OK but not great with Francis, and the Rodden pairing NEVER seemed right to me. As far as fitting in at HMS, I would think the other three drivers would be pretty easy to get along with, and even in the demanding 48/whomever shop, the consensus seems to be that once Chad got rid of the slackers and malcontents and learned to delegate authority, it was a fairly loose and fun shop to work in. If you can get an entire group to buy in and pull in the same direction, it seems a lot less like work.

OK with Kenny Francis, didn’t Kasey have 16 wins with him? I don’t think Francis or Kahne were well suited to be the 4th option.

Rodden pairing never made sense yep.

I think the issue with the 5 team was somewhat Kasey at the end and the Hendrick cars in the middle. He was a top 5 team in 2012 & 2013, probably better than Gordon half the time those years .
 

Formerjackman

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OK with Kenny Francis, didn’t Kasey have 16 wins with him? I don’t think Francis or Kahne were well suited to be the 4th option.

Rodden pairing never made sense yep.

I think the issue with the 5 team was somewhat Kasey at the end and the Hendrick cars in the middle. He was a top 5 team in 2012 & 2013, probably better than Gordon half the time those years

When I referred to being OK with Francis, I meant while at Hendrick. Only 5 of those 16 came there. Whatever the reason, his last four seasons at HMS produced only two wins and twelve top fives. In a year when Jimmie managed to “steal” a championship, Kasey could only manage three top fives. I. Agree 100% that the cars didn’t help, but they weren’t THAT bad. Chase the rookie managed ten top fives that year. I think most of us HMS fans thought we were getting the guy that would become THE guy, with Jeff, Jimmie and Jr. on the backside of their careers, but sadly that didn’t happen. That job fell to the barely out of his teens Chase Elliott.
 

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I never thought that, but I was objective about what HMS was.
Mark Martin DID, and he sold Rick on that notion. Looking at what he was able to do with the somewhat dysfunctional Evernham group, I was inclined to believe he was just a top tier car away from superstardom.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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Mark Martin DID, and he sold Rick on that notion. Looking at what he was able to do with the somewhat dysfunctional Evernham group, I was inclined to believe he was just a top tier car away from superstardom.
I’ve appreciated the stroll down memory lane for Kasey’s time at HMS but I have one early morning thought, a thought I’ve kept to myself since this all started, but the longer it goes I can’t hold it in anymore: I want HMS to sign Kyle Busch. Maybe Rick and Jeff can open a vacancy at the Inn
 

Charlie Spencer

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Are we at the point we expect KyBu to be somewhere else next season, that it would be a surprise if he and JGR inked a new deal and an absolute shock if it was for more than one year?
 

Formerjackman

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I’ve appreciated the stroll down memory lane for Kasey’s time at HMS but I have one early morning thought, a thought I’ve kept to myself since this all started, but the longer it goes I can’t hold it in anymore: I want HMS to sign Kyle Busch. Maybe Rick and Jeff can open a vacancy at the Inn
As much as I DON'T want it to happen, I wouldn't be completely shocked if it did, just not for 2023. Rick is in a position that sometimes he does what he WANTS to do, not what makes the most sense to the rest of us. I just don't see how it happens right now. Everybody is under contract through at least 2023, and I don't think there are the opportunities for Rick to engineer a soft landing spot for a driver like he used to do with MB2. Just for example, if Rick goes to Alex and says, "Hey, I know you have a contract, but I want to set you up somewhere else so I can bring Kyle in", where does Alex go besides maybe Spire? That would be a HARD landing in my opinion, and even if Ally went along, I can't imagine that being agreeable to anyone for one second. The other elephant in the room is sponsorship, unless you think Rick is willing to fund TWO cars out of his pocket just so he can add a grumpy bipolar aging superstar to his lineup that already has four winning and playoff bound drivers. As was explained thoroughly on DBC, Kyle Busch level sponsorship deals are NOT getting put together this late in the season for 2023, so you either fund it yourself or pull sponsorship from another car, and it would probably have to be from your own team this late in the game. The question I would have too is, at this point in his career, is Kyle REALLY worth that much to a team like HMS that already has the "most popular" driver and a champion, the "most talented" driver and a champion, a young guy who seems poised to make the next step forward, and a solid young guy that wins a few races and goes to the playoffs every year? If Kyle is not winning at JGR, does anybody think he suddenly sets the world on fire at HMS? Is having Kyle worth risking the chemistry you already have? Is Chevy ready to fund his truck team? I'd guess no. I could SEE his value to SHR, I could MAYBE SEE his value to Denny and Michael, I could SEE his value to RFK, or even at a stretch Kaulig or Trackhouse, but I really DON'T see his value to HMS or Penske, and it's NOT just because I don't like the guy. To be bluntly honest, the only REAL value he has to a team is if he can win a LOT and up the performance of your team. He's not bringing sponsorship, he's not bringing massive popularity, and I don't think anybody is looking to him as a mentor, so unless you think he can step into your car and win early and often, is he worth the hassle?

I will also add that while the reports are that Rick and Kyle have buried the hatchet from what happened in the past, the last I knew, he still blamed Jeff for a lot of what happened, and would Kyle want to work with Jeff on a day to day basis, and would Jeff WANT Kyle? I'm not saying Jeff could outright veto any deal, but I would think his opinion carries quite a bit of weight.
 

Blaze

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Are we at the point we expect KyBu to be somewhere else next season, that it would be a surprise if he and JGR inked a new deal and an absolute shock if it was for more than one year?
For me yeah, I’d be shocked if something is worked out at this point tbh
 

StandOnIt

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It hasn't looked like for a long time now that anybody wants to take on a truck team that they will have to finance with sponsors, or a driver who has won 4 cup races in three years.
 

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Mark Martin DID, and he sold Rick on that notion. Looking at what he was able to do with the somewhat dysfunctional Evernham group, I was inclined to believe he was just a top tier car away from superstardom.
I agree. Kasey had star potential based on what he did @ Evernham. Heck, his lone season @ Red Bull was very solid. Him falling off a cliff @ Hendrick was a complete surprise. Maybe it was the cars, because the same thing happened to Dale Jr. It goes to show you the talent level Jimmie & Jeff had. Those cars had no business being @ the front.
 

AuzGrams

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I’m interested to see what’s gonna happen with the 24 & 48 in the playoffs, they’ve been off pace this summer and a decent amount. Maybe they’re trying setups, maybe it’s just mid season struggle. We’ll see
 
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