Silly Season 2023

AuzGrams said:
I’m interested to see what’s gonna happen with the 24 & 48 in the playoffs, they’ve been off pace this summer and a decent amount. Maybe they’re trying setups, maybe it’s just mid season struggle. We’ll see
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I'm interested too, because right now I don't see either car getting out of Round One the way they are running, and more importantly finishing right now. Despite all the legend of Jimmie and Chad, I have never bought into the idea that you can just wake up on the first day of the playoffs and turn on your A-game like a light switch, ESPECIALLY if you are not Jimmie and Chad. While it seems to happen sometimes, I would say it's more coincidence than design.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm interested too, because right now I don't see either car getting out of Round One the way they are running, and more importantly finishing right now. Despite all the legend of Jimmie and Chad, I have never bought into the idea that you can just wake up on the first day of the playoffs and turn on your A-game like a light switch, ESPECIALLY if you are not Jimmie and Chad. While it seems to happen sometimes, I would say it's more coincidence than design.
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Meh, you can flip the switch to an extent. Jimmie and Tony did it quite a bit in the Chase era.

Bowman and Byron I doubt will win anymore this year, I expect the 24 to be better in the playoffs though
 
JJ_14 said:
I agree. Kasey had star potential based on what he did @ Evernham. Heck, his lone season @ Red Bull was very solid. Him falling off a cliff @ Hendrick was a complete surprise. Maybe it was the cars, because the same thing happened to Dale Jr. It goes to show you the talent level Jimmie & Jeff had. Those cars had no business being @ the front.
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I think Jr. was fine until the concussions started to take their toll and then Latarte left. Yes, the cars got very mediocre, but Jimmie's falloff is almost unfathomable to me. Champion in 2016, basically gets outrun by his rookie teammate the next year.
 
Formerjackman said:
As much as I DON'T want it to happen, I wouldn't be completely shocked if it did, just not for 2023. Rick is in a position that sometimes he does what he WANTS to do, not what makes the most sense to the rest of us. I just don't see how it happens right now. Everybody is under contract through at least 2023, and I don't think there are the opportunities for Rick to engineer a soft landing spot for a driver like he used to do with MB2. Just for example, if Rick goes to Alex and says, "Hey, I know you have a contract, but I want to set you up somewhere else so I can bring Kyle in", where does Alex go besides maybe Spire? That would be a HARD landing in my opinion, and even if Ally went along, I can't imagine that being agreeable to anyone for one second. The other elephant in the room is sponsorship, unless you think Rick is willing to fund TWO cars out of his pocket just so he can add a grumpy bipolar aging superstar to his lineup that already has four winning and playoff bound drivers. As was explained thoroughly on DBC, Kyle Busch level sponsorship deals are NOT getting put together this late in the season for 2023, so you either fund it yourself or pull sponsorship from another car, and it would probably have to be from your own team this late in the game. The question I would have too is, at this point in his career, is Kyle REALLY worth that much to a team like HMS that already has the "most popular" driver and a champion, the "most talented" driver and a champion, a young guy who seems poised to make the next step forward, and a solid young guy that wins a few races and goes to the playoffs every year? If Kyle is not winning at JGR, does anybody think he suddenly sets the world on fire at HMS? Is having Kyle worth risking the chemistry you already have? Is Chevy ready to fund his truck team? I'd guess no. I could SEE his value to SHR, I could MAYBE SEE his value to Denny and Michael, I could SEE his value to RFK, or even at a stretch Kaulig or Trackhouse, but I really DON'T see his value to HMS or Penske, and it's NOT just because I don't like the guy. To be bluntly honest, the only REAL value he has to a team is if he can win a LOT and up the performance of your team. He's not bringing sponsorship, he's not bringing massive popularity, and I don't think anybody is looking to him as a mentor, so unless you think he can step into your car and win early and often, is he worth the hassle?

I will also add that while the reports are that Rick and Kyle have buried the hatchet from what happened in the past, the last I knew, he still blamed Jeff for a lot of what happened, and would Kyle want to work with Jeff on a day to day basis, and would Jeff WANT Kyle? I'm not saying Jeff could outright veto any deal, but I would think his opinion carries quite a bit of weight.
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I think Kyle Busch still has some value. In fact alot of value, 37 isnt old in this sport despite some folk's best efforts to make it seem that way. We've been ready to fire and retire Denny Hamlin for some time now due to lack of results and age, hes been doing just fine. They were ready to retire Truex this year but hes coming back for another go...might even snag a playoff berth while hes at it. They had the dirt ready to put on Harvick's grave and we know how thats working out. I think Kyle Busch has many years left as a Championship 4 contender, maybe a change of scenery from the Preacher is what he needs. It worked for his buddy Matt Kenseth when he moved on from Roush who they were also ready to retire at the time if I remember correctly. I agree with you that sponsorship would be key for landing Busch, but I also would very much trust HMS to find sponsorship to land Kyle. Maybe their old buddies PepsiCo are itching to get back in......... I dont know I would think HMS at least took a look at the possibility of securing Kyle's services for one of their 2023 entries, a line up of Kyle, Kyle, and Chase would be pretty formidable imo.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm interested too, because right now I don't see either car getting out of Round One the way they are running, and more importantly finishing right now. Despite all the legend of Jimmie and Chad, I have never bought into the idea that you can just wake up on the first day of the playoffs and turn on your A-game like a light switch, ESPECIALLY if you are not Jimmie and Chad. While it seems to happen sometimes, I would say it's more coincidence than design.
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It was design and prep. Chad even spoke about this on the DJD. It wasn't that they flipped a switch. Moreso, that they found things that worked earlier in the seasons and waited to implement those things with their best race cars in the chase.

Not so much flipping a switch, as it is prep.

Some seasons it was coincidence, imo. 2006, 2008, 2016 was coincidence.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
StandOnIt said:
Penske built 6 brand new cars in 2018 when Logano won the cup
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Crazy stuff compared to 2022 NASCAR. Teams can now only have 7 cars in rotation at one time. If they want to build a new piece, they have to “lose” one of the 7.

Specialty cars are a thing of the past. Chastain won at COTA and at Talladega with the same car.
 
acmerocket said:
i think it was mostly parts that they saved for the playoff,not jimmies driving.
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Marathon not a sprint, I remember 2008 when Kyle Busch won 8 races in the first 26 and was 1st or 2nd in points all season then proceeded to finish 10th or 11th in points.
 
AuzGrams said:
Some of it is like poker, and I always felt like Knaus & Johnson were bluffing before the chase.
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Well maybe, but I just don’t see what is to gain by it. I can see saving your VERY best stuff for the playoffs, but you shouldn’t be running 15th every week with your lesser stuff if you’re HMS or one of the super teams. In the context of the 24 and 48, what concerns me the most is poor execution. It’s not so much that the cars haven’t had speed, it’s that they aren’t getting anything to show for it, and I don’t see that as part of some master plan. I have always felt that both winning and losing is a habit, and when you start doing either one, you tend to get a lot more of it. When I played baseball, my philosophy was to jump on your throat in the first inning and just continue to choke the life out of you every inning thereafter. In the first league championship game I played in, we put up six runs before the other team even came up to bat. They folded up like a cheap suit and we won the game 18-0. Look at Michael Jordan. He would not give you an INCH. Same with Tom Brady or Tiger Woods.
 
Formerjackman said:
Well maybe, but I just don’t see what is to gain by it. I can see saving your VERY best stuff for the playoffs, but you shouldn’t be running 15th every week with your lesser stuff if you’re HMS or one of the super teams. In the context of the 24 and 48, what concerns me the most is poor execution. It’s not so much that the cars haven’t had speed, it’s that they aren’t getting anything to show for it, and I don’t see that as part of some master plan. I have always felt that both winning and losing is a habit, and when you start doing either one, you tend to get a lot more of it. When I played baseball, my philosophy was to jump on your throat in the first inning and just continue to choke the life out of you every inning thereafter. In the first league championship game I played in, we put up six runs before the other team even came up to bat. They folded up like a cheap suit and we won the game 18-0. Look at Michael Jordan. He would not give you an INCH. Same with Tom Brady or Tiger Woods.
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I always felt like the 48 team and especially Jimmie looked at the season as a running race. It’s not like the 48 was **** in the regular season, it just wasn’t always 1st or 2nd in points, sometimes they would be 4th or 5th.
 
Formerjackman said:
Look at Michael Jordan. He would not give you an INCH. Same with Tom Brady or Tiger Woods.
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OT - Michael is the GOAT but couldn’t defeat the Bad Boy Pistons and needed Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman’s help just like every other NBA player.
 
Whiskyb said:
My prediction/wild ass guess is that Kyle goes to 231v and fills in his brothers seat for next year. Monster buys Rowdy energy and continues to sponsor him. And TY goes to the 18
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Good a guess as any. At least you've figured out the sponsorship question. That's the sticking point with the SHR theory, and Hendrick bumping someone for a driver he's already cut once isn't happening.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Hendrick bumping someone for a driver he's already cut once isn't happening.
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Rick Hendrick and Jeff Gordon have both said on separate occasions over the years that losing Kyle and then seeing him be so successful stings, and Jeff has gone to bat for Kyle in the media and said that his attitude is called passion and that he really likes what Kyle does. Don't put it past them.
 
AuzGrams said:
I always felt like the 48 team and especially Jimmie looked at the season as a running race. It’s not like the 48 was **** in the regular season, it just wasn’t always 1st or 2nd in points, sometimes they would be 4th or 5th.
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They used the regular season as constant test sessions, found what worked best, then kept those findings on the shelf until the playoffs started. Dale Jr has explained it on his podcast recently
 
cheesepuffs said:
Rick Hendrick and Jeff Gordon have both said on separate occasions over the years that losing Kyle and then seeing him be so successful stings, and Jeff has gone to bat for Kyle in the media and said that his attitude is called passion and that he really likes what Kyle does. Don't put it past them.
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You are correct, but I don't see the driver lineup changing at Hendrick anytime soon. They aren't kicking any of the four out for anyone.
 
cheesepuffs said:
They used the regular season as constant test sessions, found what worked best, then kept those findings on the shelf until the playoffs started. Dale Jr has explained it on his podcast recently
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It wasn’t a secret. Everyone and their dog was probably laughing at the 24 & 48 getting a 100 point penalty at Sonoma in 2007.
 
I'm still trying to figure out if SHR is trying to find sponsorship for Ryan Preece to go to the 10 since he's basically on a retainer for them.
 
AuzGrams said:
OT - Michael is the GOAT but couldn’t defeat the Bad Boy Pistons and needed Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman’s help just like every other NBA player.
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I think it has repeatedly been shown that ONE player, no matter how great cannot win a title all by himself, not Michael, not Kobe, not Lebron. The other four don't have to be superstars, but at least three better be above average, and you better have a couple SOLID role players coming off the bench.
 
Formerjackman said:
I think it has repeatedly been shown that ONE player, no matter how great cannot win a title all by himself, not Michael, not Kobe, not Lebron. The other four don't have to be superstars, but at least three better be above average, and you better have a couple SOLID role players coming off the bench.
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Bill Russell was really really good and doesn’t get the attention or credit he deserves.
 
The news about Aric is painful for me.

I no longer live in Connecticut but Ryan Preece was a last minute entry at Stafford Motor Speedway and a few of my buddies are going. I hope he kicks ass tonight.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I don’t think Bowman is untouchable. Ally was there before him. He’s decent, and I know he still has one year on his contract, but crazier things have happened.
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I don't see Bowman getting Gibbs'd by Mr. H unless they work out a semi-decent landing spot (Trackhouse 91? JRM 88 if Theresa can get a charter?) for him.
 
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