Still waiting Eillot's win

StandOnIt said:
you seem to look at anything posted as an affront to your way of looking at things. So much so that you miss most of the points that people are trying to make.
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It's a conversation. Some hide various biases behind passive "statements of fact." Then, if the Happy Meal Members hit "Like" enough, it becomes truth. Forces a contrary opinion to re-establish equilibrium. Contrary to you assessment, I sort through that ****, and do learn quite a bit around here.
 
The GM business model seems deficient after all those years on top.

Just an opinion.
 
Larsonfan1995 said:
Chase needs a better car this year. He's stuck driving a Hendrick slug. A 7 time champion can't get the car to run up front. He's proven when given a good car he can run very well. When Hendrick gets its act together, I'd say Chase will start clicking off wins. A breakout year can come at any time.
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man, qualify on the pole in an impound race and can't keep the freakin lead?, Hendricks have all qualified in the top 12 for road racing, 1.5's and now speedway? I'm beginning to think it isn't the car. Byron was running up front until he got Stenhoused so was Johnson and his crew blew it. They have more problems than the car IMO.
 
Chase will have a Great career. I grew up a Bill Elliott fan and saw Chase as a little kid running around at Bill’s fan club meetings. He would have already one had it not been bad luck or Hamlin wrecking him. There will always be naysayers against every driver. Last nights Daytona race SUCKED. Also NBC coverage is about stupid except for Dale and Jeff. The girl singing Tom Petty song to the guy interviewing the winner on the start finish line is dumb.
 
aunty dive said:
The GM business model seems deficient after all those years on top.

Just an opinion.
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Well, one of the three is not like the others, and those others are 1 and 2 in the Manufacturers Standings so there's that. I think that you have a couple of layers of problems here.....First, Hendrick is too young for the quality of debriefs that they once had, and two--to your point--Chevy has never had a history of information sharing. So, the data internally isn't what it was, and even if it was, what would be going out, would be questionable. I am beginning to think it is a dumpster fire in this area. To @StandOnIt point, the car is probably okay--or close. Ironic to me that the "Toyota Way" is a slow process often blamed for the categorical failure of Toyota's F1 efforts. I wonder if this processing method is offset by the small car count, and that is why Toyota was so quick to get good with their new car. David Wilson has always talked about a lid of 8 cars.
 
aunty dive said:
The Ford method is producing results that far exceed Chevrolet’s.
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no argument there I knew that when they got SHR to come over. The Penske's are doing worse this year and there is two of the different winners that is giving the press and the whiners their no winners story, but none of the articles are pointing that out.
 
StandOnIt said:
man, qualify on the pole in an impound race and can't keep the freakin lead?, Hendricks have all qualified in the top 12 for road racing, 1.5's and now speedway? I'm beginning to think it isn't the car. Byron was running up front until he got Stenhoused so was Johnson and his crew blew it. They have more problems than the car IMO.
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Going from Kahne, Earnhardt, Gordon and Johnson giving feedback/exchanging notes to having three drivers age 25 and younger over the span of a few years will certainly do that. Youth is overrated.
 
LJ7201 said:
Going from Kahne, Earnhardt, Gordon and Johnson giving feedback/exchanging notes to having three drivers age 25 and younger over the span of a few years will certainly do that. Youth is overrated.
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That is another part of it for sure that isn't the car's fault IMO.
 
LJ7201 said:
Going from Kahne, Earnhardt, Gordon and Johnson giving feedback/exchanging notes to having three drivers age 25 and younger over the span of a few years will certainly do that. Youth is overrated.
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This.
 
LJ7201 said:
Going from Kahne, Earnhardt, Gordon and Johnson giving feedback/exchanging notes to having three drivers age 25 and younger over the span of a few years will certainly do that. Youth is overrated.
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There are certainly instances where very young drivers came into Cup and picked it up right away (see Jeff Gordon and Kyle Busch), but for every Jeff Gordon there's a Casey Atwood, for every Kyle Busch there's a Reed Sorensen. Simply being young and having shown some talent in Trucks/Xfinity doesn't guarantee you'll be any good in Cup.
 
ToyYoda said:
There are certainly instances where very young drivers came into Cup and picked it up right away (see Jeff Gordon and Kyle Busch), but for every Jeff Gordon there's a Casey Atwood, for every Kyle Busch there's a Reed Sorensen. Simply being young and having shown some talent in Trucks/Xfinity doesn't guarantee you'll be any good in Cup.
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Those are extreme cases - usually you end up with a Logano or Truex type who takes a bit before they hit their stride. Experience and patience are needed.
 
LJ7201 said:
Going from Kahne, Earnhardt, Gordon and Johnson giving feedback/exchanging notes to having three drivers age 25 and younger over the span of a few years will certainly do that. Youth is overrated.
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Gibbs has two drivers just as young as as the Hendrick Kids, and the third driver is, well, Denny Hamlin, so I don';t see where Gibb's feedback is THAT much better than Hendrick's is. Would more experience help the three young HMS drivers? Sure it would, but I don't find a whole lot of fault with the their driving at all, in fact, sometimes it seems like they make fewer mistakes than Johnson does. Elliott has already proven that when he has a decent car he is top tier driver. Just look at the playoffs last year. Byron is a little rough around the edges, but I don't think there is any question the ability is there. Bowman is a GRINDER, just like I thought he would be. That kid makes VERY few mistakes and he';s going to get everything the car can offer. How many wrecks did he get sucked into last night and STILL came home 10th? Better cars would solve a LOT of problems. Less time wasted in practice, better qualifying results, better pit stalls and less time racing around the mid-packers.
 
Formerjackman said:
Gibbs has two drivers just as young as as the Hendrick Kids, and the third driver is, well, Denny Hamlin, so I don';t see where Gibb's feedback is THAT much better than Hendrick's is. Would more experience help the three young HMS drivers? Sure it would, but I don't find a whole lot of fault with the their driving at all, in fact, sometimes it seems like they make fewer mistakes than Johnson does. Elliott has already proven that when he has a decent car he is top tier driver. Just look at the playoffs last year. Byron is a little rough around the edges, but I don't think there is any question the ability is there. Bowman is a GRINDER, just like I thought he would be. That kid makes VERY few mistakes and he';s going to get everything the car can offer. How many wrecks did he get sucked into last night and STILL came home 10th? Better cars would solve a LOT of problems. Less time wasted in practice, better qualifying results, better pit stalls and less time racing around the mid-packers.
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When hasn’t Elliott had a decent car?
What exactly is wrong with the equipment?
 
Chase got the short end of the stick, he had one of the best cars out there. Just plate tracks are extremely unpredictable in terms of finishing positions because of the possible carnage.

You lose a lot more than you win, just sucks because not just Chase, but all of HMS had great cars and needed some good finishes for themselves to gain some type of confidence after an abysmal season, so far.
 
aunty dive said:
The HMS cars also seem to be short on balanced downforce. I don’t know that to be a fact.
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I'll be honest, they have looked a lot better on plate tracks as of late because the last couple of years the cars have been fast, but extremely edgy.

Jr brought that up during the broadcast because the slightest bit of air taking off of the spoiler and the car would go spinning the previous two years.
 
ToyYoda said:
There are certainly instances where very young drivers came into Cup and picked it up right away (see Jeff Gordon and Kyle Busch), but for every Jeff Gordon there's a Casey Atwood, for every Kyle Busch there's a Reed Sorensen. Simply being young and having shown some talent in Trucks/Xfinity doesn't guarantee you'll be any good in Cup.
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For every Jeff Gordon there is a Casey Mears. For every Jimmie Johnson there is a Brian Vickers.
 
Kiante said:
I'll be honest, they have looked a lot better on plate tracks as of late because the last couple of years the cars have been fast, but extremely edgy.

Jr brought that up during the broadcast because the slightest bit of air taking off of the spoiler and the car would go spinning the previous two years.
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Nascar went with a wider rear spoiler, it helped, also they can adjust the rear height with any spring or shock package this year at the plate tracks
 
A one car anomaly this year.

Are people still demanding that Larson has to go to HMS?
 
BobbyFord said:
When hasn’t Elliott had a decent car?
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HMS has been below par since Chase came to Cup, and for the most part they have gotten worse instead of better.

BobbyFord said:
What exactly is wrong with the equipment?
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Evidently even HMS doesn't know the answer to that, or they would have fixed it by now. For the most part the cars lack speed, and even when they start out with some , they seem to have trouble maintaining it over a run or over a whole race.
 
Formerjackman said:
HMS has been below par since Chase came to Cup, and for the most part they have gotten worse instead of better.



Evidently even HMS doesn't know the answer to that, or they would have fixed it by now. For the most part the cars lack speed, and even when they start out with some , they seem to have trouble maintaining it over a run or over a whole race.
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Seems to me the cars aren’t the problem.
 
Formerjackman said:
HMS has been below par since Chase came to Cup, and for the most part they have gotten worse instead of better.



Evidently even HMS doesn't know the answer to that, or they would have fixed it by now. For the most part the cars lack speed, and even when they start out with some , they seem to have trouble maintaining it over a run or over a whole race.
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The 4 car is the real problem .......... and Kyle Busch
 
BobbyFord said:
Seems to me the cars aren’t the problem.
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When you speak of cars are we talking about the product the Car chief brings to the track or the product the Crew chief has changed for the race?
Who determines what a car chief builds? Someone is in charge of each step as
a new car is built. Seems to me they talk about new cars a lot. What constitutes a new car?
 
I think youth is being a little overrated. Kenseth should have been at HMS for a year before throwing Byron to the wolves as quickly as they did.

I don't think the drivers aren't talented, but the Chevy's as a whole are a mess.
 
I have noticed over the years that JGR changes Crew Chiefs, so has Gannasi and other teams but not very often at HMS. Maybe they need a shake up. Some of the young drivers like Blaney have brought their Xfinity CC with them.
 
Team Penske said:
When you speak of cars are we talking about the product the Car chief brings to the track or the product the Crew chief has changed for the race?
Who determines what a car chief builds? Someone is in charge of each step as
a new car is built. Seems to me they talk about new cars a lot. What constitutes a new car?
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I can't speak for anyone else, but when I see "the car" in this case I am speaking of either the chassis itself as built in the HMS chassis shop, or an issue with the geometry of the car suspension, which would include the pickup points where the suspension mounts to the chassis, to things like control arm geometry or spindle geometry. It could also have a lot to do with the shocks, but, I would think that if it were that, they would be good at least PART of the time. If it was as simple as setups, the HMS teams would hit on stuff once in a while. The fact that they are pretty consistently slow at nearly all tracks except for plate tracks would suggest to me that it's a fundamental design flaw in the chassis or the pickup points for the suspension. So much of this stuff is so interrelated, that it can be difficult to nail down the actual source of the problem. Unless you have spent some time actually crawling around these cars, you can't appreciate all of the things that can be adjusted or the places where you can use a different part with different characteristics. If you could actually list every single unique chassis adjustment you could make, it would probably number in the millions. If you are very far off in ANY one spot, it can make a huge difference, and sometimes even if you have part of the package right, it won't work at all unless you have the TOTAL package right. I spent a 15 hour day one time at Kentucky Speedway trying to make a "hot setup" work on a car that wasn't really built for it. At 9PM, we were still out in the transporter lot borrowing front end parts off someone's backup car to make our car actually go around the track at all the next day after finally ditching the hot setup and going back to basics.
 
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