Team Orders?

Here's a theory for you; With mostly nothing but rolling piles of junk behind the leaders, nobody had a car good enough to push anybody else ahead of Hamlin. Not, Kyle, not Joey, NOBODY. The cars following were a disorganized mess on a very short run, all trying to get the most for themselves, mostly with wounded cars. The luck of the draw got Hamlin the lead, and under THESE circumstances, nobody could organize enough opposition to pass Denny. I didn't EXPECT anybody was going to get by him on a GWC, and they didn't.
 
Formerjackman said:
Here's a theory for you; With mostly nothing but rolling piles of junk behind the leaders, nobody had a car good enough to push anybody else ahead of Hamlin. Not, Kyle, not Joey, NOBODY. The cars following were a disorganized mess on a very short run, all trying to get the most for themselves, mostly with wounded cars. The luck of the draw got Hamlin the lead, and under THESE circumstances, nobody could organize enough opposition to pass Denny. I didn't EXPECT anybody was going to get by him on a GWC, and they didn't.
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A reasonable theory. A crazy move could have resulted in a dnf for all the JGR cars anyway
 
I recall Joey's left rear fender was bowed out at the end. I'm sure it up'ed the drag whenever that side of the car was out in clean air.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I recall Joey's left rear fender was bowed out at the end. I'm sure it up'ed the drag whenever that side of the car was out in clean air.
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he was pretty much done for winning anyway and didn't know it. One of them in the booth said nah I don't think that will affect him that much.:D
McDowell:
“I would have loved to work with Joey, but he was moving left to right. (Busch) had a big run, a lot of momentum and Joey had a lot of damage, the back of his car was completely smashed, no rear bumper, parachute hanging out it. Joey wasn’t going to win the race. I wanted to put myself in the best shot to win the race. And the Fords weren’t that friendly to me this weekend.”
 
Formerjackman said:
Here's a theory for you; With mostly nothing but rolling piles of junk behind the leaders, nobody had a car good enough to push anybody else ahead of Hamlin. Not, Kyle, not Joey, NOBODY. The cars following were a disorganized mess on a very short run, all trying to get the most for themselves, mostly with wounded cars. The luck of the draw got Hamlin the lead, and under THESE circumstances, nobody could organize enough opposition to pass Denny. I didn't EXPECT anybody was going to get by him on a GWC, and they didn't.
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I agree 100%. Denny is too good at that modern day plate blocking ****. I felt that if Kyle was leading, he would have been passed. Honestly, his skill set isn't what Denny's is in this context IMO.
 
Formerjackman said:
Here's a theory for you; With mostly nothing but rolling piles of junk behind the leaders, nobody had a car good enough to push anybody else ahead of Hamlin. Not, Kyle, not Joey, NOBODY. The cars following were a disorganized mess on a very short run, all trying to get the most for themselves, mostly with wounded cars. The luck of the draw got Hamlin the lead, and under THESE circumstances, nobody could organize enough opposition to pass Denny. I didn't EXPECT anybody was going to get by him on a GWC, and they didn't.
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I thought Kyle had a chance myself, but his car wasn't as fast as Denny's when they got rolling, and looking behind at the rolling wounded limping along, Kyle wasn't going to get any help there, the Jones boy was too far back. A couple more laps and it might have been different. Darn good race IMO. I hope Atlanta is as good.
 
I’ve seen team orders play out time and time again in F1 and that wasn’t team orders.Kyle wouldn’t give up a chance of winning of the 500 for a teammate
 
Get That 88 Up There !! said:
I’ve seen team orders play out time and time again in F1 and that wasn’t team orders Kyle wouldn’t give up a chance of winning of the 500 for a teammate
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It's not about KyBu losing, its about ensuring Hamlin keeps the advantage -- instead of KyBu racing Hamlin hard like he would Keselowski.

#not100percent
 
Hopefully at the next plate race some of the bigger teams will have learned from this one and not hang out a fellow brand driver and then expect them to help you at the end.
 
I thought Denny’s spotter asked him if he would start on top that Kyle would let him down, Denny said he was good with that as long as Kyle would hold up his end of the deal.
I don’t care if either of these drivers ever win another race, but Kyle is a lot better on restarts than Denny.
JMO
 
Kyle Busch ?............give up a chance to win the Daytona 500? :lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2: its clear you must be new NASCAR.
 
jws926 said:
Kyle Busch ?............give up a chance to win the Daytona 500? :lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2: its clear you must be new NASCAR.
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You must be new to real life.

Cheating in sports is real. Grown men cheat to gain an advantage. We know JGR gave the pit box to KyBu at Homestead. What did Hamlin get in return? Special treatment on the restart?

“We made a deal with the 11 (Hamlin) to let them down (to the bottom of the track). In doing that, it was strength in numbers trying to keep us all together,” Busch said. “I probably knew better, but I took that chance to make sure at least one of us won."

Critical thought tells you that someone who wants to win as bad as you claim KyBu did, doesn't make deals on a restart to favor ANY competitor, unless...

Doubtful the cheaters will confess or turn themselves in.

#naive
 
Ventisca said:
You must be new to real life.

Cheating in sports is real. Grown men cheat to gain an advantage. We know JGR gave the pit box to KyBu at Homestead. What did Hamlin get in return? Special treatment on the restart?

“We made a deal with the 11 (Hamlin) to let them down (to the bottom of the track). In doing that, it was strength in numbers trying to keep us all together,” Busch said. “I probably knew better, but I took that chance to make sure at least one of us won."

Critical thought tells you that someone who wants to win as bad as you claim KyBu did, doesn't make deals on a restart to favor ANY competitor, unless...

Doubtful the cheaters will confess or turn themselves in.

#naive
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Naive? Can you prove what you're promoting here? No, you can't. Why would JGR prefer Hamlin over Kyle? And on a side note, why do you call Mr. Gibbs " Holy Joe"? Is it ok to demean people because of their faith? He's done more to elevate those around him than most. He hasn't won two Super Bowls, along with a Cup title or two, and throw in a few Daytona 500s for good measure because he's "naive" as you would say. Insulting people of faith says more about you than them.
 
I’m one of the biggest Earnhardt fan out there, and I still put an asterisk beside his 2004 win. The car suddenly developed 50 more hp and to this day the commentators are still not fully sold on side drafting being a real thing. And neither do I, since I’ve yet to witness anyone else pull off his 2004 passes, including junior himself. Plus, the funny business every year during front row qualifying. Last year being 20 years since seniors death and the 3 car just happens to find victory lane. The fact Kyle almost always runs terrible on restrictor plates.

Basically, if there was ever a race nascar has any control over, it would be restrictor plates, and all it takes is a slightly bigger drill bit.
 
joe h said:
I’m one of the biggest Earnhardt fan out there, and I still put an asterisk beside his 2004 win. The car suddenly developed 50 more hp and to this day the commentators are still not fully sold on side drafting being a real thing. And neither do I, since I’ve yet to witness anyone else pull off his 2004 passes, including junior himself. Plus, the funny business every year during front row qualifying. Last year being 20 years since seniors death and the 3 car just happens to find victory lane. The fact Kyle almost always runs terrible on restrictor plates.

Basically, if there was ever a race nascar has any control over, it would be restrictor plates, and all it takes is a slightly bigger drill bit.
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Have you ever personally witnessed how restrictor plates are assigned, or been a part of the process? I have. The chances of a team or NASCAR being able to be sure a certain plate got on a certain car is next to impossible, for good reason. Hell, I got chewed out for TOUCHING a restrictor plate on a car that had fallen out of the race and was sitting in the garage.
 
mack said:
I've felt for the past fifteen years or so, if NASCAR is going to manipulate an outcome, Junior would have been a seven time champ, not JJ. That would have helped the sport more.
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JJ and Brian were known to be ‘fishing buddies’.
 
Ventisca said:
Critical thought tells you that someone who wants to win as bad as you claim KyBu did, doesn't make deals on a restart to favor ANY competitor, unless...

Doubtful the cheaters will confess or turn themselves in.
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KDB is in his renegotiation year at JGR. Strange things can happen. :D
 
joe h said:
JJ and Brian were known to be ‘fishing buddies’.
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Yeah, I'm sure THAT explains it. :rolleyes: It would be news to me if Brian was "buddies' with ANY driver. I'm sure Dale Sr.'s seven championships are because of his friendships with Bill France Jr. and Mike Helton too. Who was Jeff Gordon friends with?
 
I first noticed team tactics at Richmond a few years ago. Penske teammates started manipulating restarts where the leader would take the undesirable outside lane and have his teammate hold up the inside lane so his teammate could retake the lead with his teammate behind him. I've noticed the Gibbs team doing this as well. I don't like seeing that because that is not racing, it is manipulation - an advantage for multi car teams. And I don't think NASCAR can do anything about it without going to single file restarts.
 
Revman said:
Such complete bull****. If he had acted like our 2018 Champion, you would be posting the sh!t out of that. A joke of a post.
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Chew on this dogcrap sandwich slowly, there's some tasty tidbits in there for you. ;)

“We made a deal with the 11 (Hamlin) to let them down (to the bottom of the track). In doing that, it was strength in numbers trying to keep us all together,” Busch said. “I probably knew better, but I took that chance to make sure at least one of us won.”
 
Ventisca said:
Chew on this dogcrap sandwich slowly, there's some tasty tidbits in there for you. ;)

“We made a deal with the 11 (Hamlin) to let them down (to the bottom of the track). In doing that, it was strength in numbers trying to keep us all together,” Busch said. “I probably knew better, but I took that chance to make sure at least one of us won.”
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Nothing in that paragraph suggests there were orders to let Denny win or to not go for the win.
Your foil hat is on a bit too tight.
 
IDK where some of this is coming from about team orders and Kyle taking a dive like the original poster came up with. I laughed at that and I still am. Hamlin had lane choice, he could restart in whatever lane he wanted to. Adam Stephens, Kyle's crew chief wanted Denny to start at the top with Kyle on the bottom to block Logano. Hamlin could have said no, but Hamlin's only worry was that Kyle wouldn't let him down and honor the whole "teammate restart" deal. If Hamlin would have started on the bottom, Logano could have pushed Hamlin past Kyle and then had a two car battle to the finish. Not saying that would have happened with the car Logano had at that point, but why take a chance. Put Kyle on the bottom to block and to let Hamlin in front on the restart and then two Gibbs cars are lined up to run to the finish. If some of ya would think about it for a minute Hamlin with Joey pushing on the bottom wouldn't be good at all for KDB. I don't care what he says. JGR sure didn't think so.

 
BobbyFord said:
Nothing in that paragraph suggests there were orders to let Denny win or to not go for the win.
Your foil hat is on a bit too tight.
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Sure. Nothing to see.

KyBu just admitting that he let Hamlin get cleared for the Lead (not side by side) knowing how hard it would be to pass with two laps to go.

He would've done the same for Kez or Logano -- riiiiihgt... :rolleyes:

The question is WHY didn't KyBu care about giving up his best chance to Lead and Win the Daytona 500? Because THAT is what he admitted to when he just wanted to ensure a JGR car won (Team Orders) -- the most he could say in an interview without fully declaring his guilt.

#not100percent
 
Ventisca said:
Sure. Nothing to see.

KyBu just admitting that he let Hamlin get cleared for the Lead (not side by side) knowing how hard it would be to pass with two laps to go.

He would've done the same for Kez or Logano -- riiiiihgt... :rolleyes:

The question is WHY didn't KyBu care about giving up his best chance to Lead and Win the Daytona 500? Because THAT is what he admitted to when he just wanted to ensure a JGR car won (Team Orders) -- the most he could say in an interview without fully declaring his guilt.

#not100percent
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I’m guessing your driver lost.
 
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