2019 Monster Energy Supercross

[gnomesayin]

I had an event to go to and will be watching later tonight. Hope it's as good as the last couple weeks have been.

 

[KTMLew01]

Webb wins another! Sure didn't see this coming into the season.

450 Main Event Podium:
1) Cooper Webb
2) Blake Baggett
3) Marvin Musquin

 

[gnomesayin]

Watching now, done with the heats. Not sure what's in store in the mains, but this is not a good track layout. Tight and narrow, very few passing opportunities, starts are everything.

 

[gnomesayin]

Like NASCAR's Latford points scale, the SX points scale is rigged to keep things close until the end of the season... for commercial purposes. It chaps my ass..

It's not quite as bad as Latford at the top end, but close. If you extrapolate the SX scale out to Latford proportions, it would look like:

1st: 185
2nd: 163.6
3rd: 149.4
4th: 135.2
5th: 128

It's still too flat, and Webb should have entered tonight with a sizable lead.

 

[gnomesayin]

Impressive ride by Cianciarulo, and Ferrandis for that matter. I did not see Forkner being chased down and passed that easily.

It's just Webb's season. It looked like both Musquin and Baggett were faster for most of the race, but neither could make a pass happen.

 

[AndyMarquisLive]

All Cooper Webb does is win.

 

[Hotrod]

Impressive ride by Cianciarulo, and Ferrandis for that matter. I did not see Forkner being chased down and passed that easily.

It's just Webb's season. It looked like both Musquin and Baggett were faster for most of the race, but neither could make a pass happen.

After the race , Forkner gave an understandable reason. He said he had a couple bad crashes in the whoops
during practice and that was on his mind during the race ( physically and mentally). I imagine he was holding
his breath every time he went through that section, which is not optimal.

I am very encouraged with this new crop of talent. Good times for SX in the future.

 

[kyle18fan]

Roger Decoster is an alchemist. he turns things into gold

 

[gnomesayin]

That Atlanta track was terrible.

The KTMs (or their riders) sure do seem to have an advantage on the starts right now.

 

[gnomesayin]

I'm definitely looking forward to Daytona week. Was getting a bit tired of the ho hum track layouts of late. Hoping for a challenging night that gives some different guys an opportunity to show their skills.

 

[Hotrod]

at the 450 final gate tonite:
points are
Webb 199
Roczen - 13
Musquin - 17
Tomac - 22

That is quite the beach out there in the sand section.

 

[gnomesayin]

A lot of carnage on these starts tonight.

Not the best Daytona track ever, but a lot of speed as always, and I like the long rhythm sections.

 

[Hotrod]

Tomac sure likes the track. Wow, won that heat by 5 1/2 seconds .

 

[gnomesayin]

TV coverage falls asleep again and doesn't realize there is a battle for they're coming to the line.

That's the first time in several weeks I've watched the LCQs. The track makes a difference.

Where is @DUN24 ?

 

[Hotrod]

I don't care what RC says about that sand section, its too close to T1 and
no one can turn the wheel when its burying in the sand. Especially at the start.

 

[*WEAVER*]

Forgot all about this tonight. I like that speed shot where the camera chases them down the track.

 

[gnomesayin]

This is racing.

 

[gnomesayin]

Musquin was faster than Webb, but couldn't get around him a second time. I feel like if he didn't beat him there, I'm not sure when he's going to be able to.

 

[LewTheShoe]

This is racing.

Yep, at last, a real race track for one night. I understand the importance of the stadium settings (with stadium amenities) to the commercial success of Supercross. But as a TV viewer, Daytona is so much more interesting than the football stadium courses. And Daytona during Bike Week... that works commercially, too.

With seven rounds to go, nothing is decided yet. Webb has built a nice points cushion, but it ain't over yet. Tomac was hooked up last night, in a class by himself. His championship hopes are still alive.

I saw a points table that listed Denver as an Eastern race for the 250 guys, while Houston and the Meadowlands (New Jersey) are Western races. Anyone know why?

 

[nickp]

What a great night at daytona supercross

 

[DUN24]

Just finished this telecast and I am spent. What a track. Some very impressive rides out there. Kenny did not need that start.

 

[DUN24]

TV coverage falls asleep again and doesn't realize there is a battle for they're coming to the line.

That's the first time in several weeks I've watched the LCQs. The track makes a difference.

Where is @DUN24 ?

I had to dvr it. I had to dvr alot of things this weekend. It has been one hell of a Sunday

 

[DUN24]

All Cooper Webb does is win.

Yeah it's super weird. Talk about breaking out.

 

[gnomesayin]

I'm glad for Musquin to see him finally outlast Webb and get a win. Don't understand Tomac getting passed by Baggett and Webb after he was catching Marv, and then dropping anchor and losing by 20 seconds. Looked like may have been suffering from arm pump. And the KTMs just look dominant on a lot of these tracks. Another podium sweep, and Baggett has never been this good consistently indoors.

 

[Hotrod]

In Seattle tonite. 50 yards of woops is cruel and unusual punishment.
C'mon Tomac, lets right this ship.
Points:
Webb - 249
Musquin - 229
Tomac - 222
Roczen - 216

 

[FLRacingFan]

This 250 LCQ is taking a toll on several riders. Ouch.

 

[gnomesayin]

I'm here at the race. Made the decision to drive up since the weather cleared up. Not many Seattle Supercrosses where it doesn't rain. Good attendance and an enthusiastic crowd. Seattle sports fans are some of the best, certainly on the west coast.

I thought the DQ of Jorgenson in the 250 LCQ battling for the transfer was a bad call. Had a pretty good view of it, and he got bumped off the track by the trailing rider. Seemed to me he got back on track as quickly as reasonable without either giving up time or gaining it. To me the fact that he got bumped off has to be considered.

The 450 heats were good. I wish Tomac had been a little more aggressive with Webb. He needs to do something to shake his confidence. But I do like the fact that these guys are riding clean this year. Too many injuries happen as it is. The main should be interesting with those whoops degenerating.

 

[gnomesayin]

Wow, huge spill for Nichols. Hope he's OK.

 

[FLRacingFan]

Musquin jumped...jumped right past the medical staff, even. Seems cut and dried.

 

[gnomesayin]

Good main events, not great ones.

It took a long time for anyone in the stadium to be aware of what was happening. I only knew because I had the NBC audio playing in one ear while I watched. They did a good job of being on top of the issue when they became aware and covering it in real time. Ricky was fun tonight from what I heard because he was free with his opinions. He's not a good broadcaster, but if he's going to be there, this is the Ricky we need. He straight up called the 250 LCQ issue a terrible call on air!

Musquin jumped...jumped right past the medical staff, even. Seems cut and dried.

I don't get why the call wasn't made within 30 seconds of the finish. I'm not one to want rushed officiating calls, but it's obvious. Marv didn't know what to say either, other than he just wasn't thinking. I get that, brain fades happen, and i don't think it was malicious. I suppose penalizing a Roger Decoster KTM rider is kinda like penalizing a Penske driver, but this was blatant and must be called.

It's the most anticlimactic way possible for Roczen to get his feel good comeback win. Still great to see him riding well again.

 

[DUN24]

If ya'll are curious who won, it was Marv. He's got penalties coming though:

This 250 LCQ is taking a toll on several riders. Ouch.

Red flag a race because someone dies and kill two more on the restart. Lmao.

 

[gnomesayin]

Instant DQ of unknown 250 rider who got punted off the track (I get both sides of that one now after reading other opinions, just saying). KTM star rider jumps through a red cross flag? We may need a day or two to sort this out.

I've now seen some claims that Savatgy and possibly Webb jumped through the same section. If it was multiple riders, this could become a clusterf*ck or give the officials an out to say it was an accident without ill effects. Will have to see what clips I can find when I get home.

 

[gnomesayin]

Oh, I'm now understanding that those rules only spell out a points and purse penalty. The rules say nothing about being docked positions, just "points equal to". In 2016 Dungey was literally stripped of a win for a similar infraction, and Anderson was awarded the win instead. Rule was changed to a sort of NASCAR-style points only penalty in either 2017 or 2018.

 

[gnomesayin]

Also, bad night for injuries. Colt Nichols was obviously injuries, sounds like Reed is seriously hurt with arm and rib injuries, and Brayton went for a wild ride and is probably hurt as well.

 

[gnomesayin]

LOL

 

[Hotrod]

What a night. You saw a lot action gnomesayin. This may be the beginning of the
end for Chad Reed I feel though. Just by the way he summoned quickly for help
led me to believe he thought he had a serious injury. He came so close to taking
a full on center punch from a bike, he may just call this career done and dusted.
We will see though of course.
By Tomac's post race interview, he just could not find a sustainable rhythm. I think
he feels lucky getting out of there with a 3 rd.
I am just pregnant with anticipation to see the Cianciarulo/Forkner future battles.

Sidebar : The American Flat Track series was at my home dirt track Dixie Speedway last nite.
I did not go but watched it live on the Fanschoice tv live feed. That was a great nite of racing,
thrills and spills. Check out the replays on NBCSN if you get a chance.

 

[LewTheShoe]

1. I thought the course was awesome for an SX course, 100 times better than that choppy thing last week in Indy. The heat races were very racy. I think maybe the course deteriorated as the evening went on, particularly the whoops, because the standard of riding seemed less impressive in the mains.

2. Interesting sidebar in the broadcast about tire/tube mousse. Perhaps it's just the power of suggestion, but both Webb and Tomac seemed to ride like their tires were extra heavy in the main... lots of missed jumps costing them time. Or maybe Webb had mousse in his right wrist??

3. I agree with @gnomesayin that it's refreshing for an announcer to be willing to criticize the officials when they deserve it. In the case of Jorgensen in the 250 LCQ, I thought the call was proper. Jorgensen was a "victim" of a well-executed block pass... so he exited the track and accelerated down the flat floor to pass Howell before rejoining the track in front of Howell. Howell was negotiating the jumps on the course, which allowed Jorgensen on the flat to zoom on by. And Jorgensen was not DQ'd... he merely forfeited the one ill-gotten place.

4. Is there a pattern of De Coster's riders being given unfair immunity from penalty? Is there a pattern of Penske's drivers being given unfair immunity from penalty?

5. I think race direction was smart to take time to review video of the medical flag incident. The important thing is to get it right. Musquin's infraction seemed obvious, but Savatgy jumped the last element as well, and maybe others?? The eventual 7-point penalty seems to fit the rules @DUN24 posted. So with five rounds to go...

Webb = 262 points
Musquin = -14
Tomac = -19
Roczen = -23

6. Hoping for a better year in American Flat Track with better competition than last year. To anyone unfamiliar... please don't judge American Flat Track based on the Daytona TT, which is the first race, and airs *today* on NBC/SN. This event is usually *not* representative of what AFT is all about.

 

[gnomesayin]

Good points all Lew.

Agreed on #1, better layout and more truly challenging for the riders. I didn't catch #2 but that is interesting. The dirt they use in Seattle is more rocky. Webb looked to be riding conservatively, and rightly so. He's doing an expert job of minimizing damage when he isn't the fastest. Where Tomac's top speed has gone, I'm not sure.

On #3, I was a little caught up at the time in the practical sense of Jorgenson having been wronged by being bumped off the track in a transfer spot battle, and it looked in real time like he'd done his best to get back on without truly gaining an advantage. I think this is the gut reaction that Carmichael had, it just didn't look right. After reading more opinions about how rules should simply be called as written and consistently, I'm somewhat persuaded by those arguments. Problem is there has been a lot of judgment and inconsistency in AMA calls in this series.

Regarding #4 and #5, my comparison was meant to indicate that both Rogers carry a lot of weight, and to me there seems to be more tentativeness and deliberation when an officiating issue involves one of their competitors. John Gallagher and Decoster and KTM officials were consulting throughout the last several laps of the race and after.

The Musquin call looked very obvious to me. Maybe the KTM team were arguing the case for him in private and they wanted to sort it out, but I don't get what that case would have even been. In his post-race interview, Musquin acted like he'd already been told he was toast. Some other riders jumped too? Well, penalize them. It appears that after the clips have been gone over thoroughly, other riders like Savagty and Webb resumed jumping after passing the flag and Reed, and possibly Roczen did as well. Nobody else jumped before and through the flag as Marvin did. So the penalty to him and not others seems appropriate.

However, there was much confusion regarding the penalty, including among teams and the NBC broadcast. Dungey losing that win in 2016 on a similar (but not as blatant) incident is reasonably fresh in the minds of those who follow the sport. I certainly had no idea they changed this circumstance to a points only penalty since, and I don't agree with the move. Just like the flawed logic NASCAR used for decades about the fans "deserving to know who won when they leave the track", I'm not sure what they think they're accomplishing with this. It appears to me that doing it this way ticks off more fans than the straightforward approach. They called their rule appropriately, but the rule change was dumb.

Having said all that, I do not believe Roczen would have ever caught and passed Musquin under any circumstance. He can say he backed off, but I think Musquin is a bit better right now. Roczen was much stronger than he's been for at least a month though.

On the injury front, Reed is done for the season. I'm glad to see him say season for now, because I hope he isn't done period. He's made a good showing this year and justified the factory seat. Brayton's status is more unclear. He said he is okay but may have a torn MCL / ACL. Colt Nichols is okay and will be back next week, but his championship hope is gone. It will be interesting to see if Ferrandis can put pressure on Cianciarulo. I'm becoming a fan of Cianciarulo. He seems humble and like he has a good head on his shoulders, and he's always a class act even when he gets beat.

 

[racingfan7]

Somewhat offtopic but the Supercross Futures idea just seems lame and retarded compared to AMA Arenacross which they scrapped.

 

[kyle18fan]

Somewhat offtopic but the Supercross Futures idea just seems lame and retarded compared to AMA Arenacross which they scrapped.

Fixing stuff that ain't broke is bad