'21 Generation 7 Car news

Formerjackman

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They could. You are correct.

They won’t.
Which is why don't have much sympathy when they start crying about the costs. If they were serious, the time to have this conversation was about the year 2000. The only people crying then was the guys they put out of business.
 

aunty dive

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The ability to cry effectively is fundamental to racecar ownership.
 

SpeedPagan

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Gamers, not racers.
Well that's a discussion for another thread.

Honestly, the only way you're going to end the arms race in NASCAR is to go 100% spec with sealed motor and transmission. The chassis and tires can still be adjusted, but every single part comes from one manufacturer.

Basically NASCAR would have to go the IROC route, but the teams can still build their own set-ups.
 

StandOnIt

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Well that's a discussion for another thread.

Honestly, the only way you're going to end the arms race in NASCAR is to go 100% spec with sealed motor and transmission. The chassis and tires can still be adjusted, but every single part comes from one manufacturer.

Basically NASCAR would have to go the IROC route, but the teams can still build their own set-ups.

They are working to cut expenses, not competition. Seems like the only people who had a problem with the IROC series are the ones who didn't watch the races. In comparison to other series competition wise, there wasn't any difference. It was slanted towards Nascar drivers with the track selection and most of the races were in the US so as expected most of the champions came from Nascar.
 

SpeedPagan

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They are working to cut expenses, not competition. Seems like the only people who had a problem with the IROC series are the ones who didn't watch the races. In comparison to other series competition wise, there wasn't any difference. It was slanted towards Nascar drivers with the track selection and most of the races were in the US so as expected most of the champions came from Nascar.
I never said it was a bad thing, I was just stating what I think the logical conclusion is going to be if NASCAR & the teams are serious about cutting cost.
 

StandOnIt

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I never said it was a bad thing, I was just stating what I think the logical conclusion is going to be if NASCAR & the teams are serious about cutting cost.
I never said you did. Plenty of ways to cut costs and the average fan won't see the difference.
 

StandOnIt

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That is true in all things. History continues to repeat itself. What makes you think this is different?
yeah 20/20 hindsight shoulda, woulda, coulda doesn't do squat to solve the problems today. Hide n watch Penske with IndyCar. I already think he was influential in the cost cutting they have done in Indycar and he said about three million is all they need from sponsorship to field an Indycar team compared to what like 16 million for a cup team? I don't know about anybody else, but I haven't seen a lack of competition in IndyCar since these latest cost cutting changes.
 

Formerjackman

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Indycar is a good example of a series that had to just about become extinct before they came up with a halfway sustainable formula. There was a lesson to be learned there. Sportscar racing has been through it multiple times, and if they aren't real careful, they are going they will be headed there again. Already some prototype team owners are saying the next generation car coming soon may plow them under. Unlike the Grand Am Series that the "pure sports car fans" couldn't wait to kill and bury, the current IMSA, like most other iterations of it, is becoming increasingly difficult to even compete in unless you have a factory deal. Action Express, arguably the most successful team in the "new IMSA" is down one car this year because of money. With Ford/Ganassi pulling out of GTLM, the factory playground, the fields in that class will be skimpy this year. What is happening in NASCAR NEEDS to happen, but it's going to be a LOT more painful for everybody than it had to be by waiting almost too long to do it.
 

wi_racefan

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I was listening to Brad Daugherty tonight on the late shift and a couple things I found interesting.

- at this point they haven't been given too much of an idea of how many parts on the new car will he standardized

- he's hoping that the new car us 10 to 15 percent cheaper than the existing

- he made a mention of the high initial cost that must be incurred by each team having to buy all new equipment. Which leads me to thinking of how some of these second and third tier teams will make it through that. They can't use anything from their existing fleet and there's nobody's old generation of equipment that they can purchase at a reduced cost. When they buy someone's old stuff you would think they are getting it for more than 10 to 15 percent off, so this new cost saving car will cost them more than what they're paying for the equipment they're getting now?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

StandOnIt

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Good article and a lot more topics are covered than this in the article

Roger Penske likes direction NASCAR, his organization are going

There’s also the highly anticipated Next Gen car slated for 2021, a push to attract additional car manufacturers and an industry-wide focus on cost cutting.

“One of the main things NASCAR is trying to do is take costs out,” Penske told co-hosts John Roberts and Chocolate Myers. “People say speed costs money, how fast do you want to go? But I think we’re at a limit where we have to go the other way.

“To me, the cost is key. The schedule is going to be different, I understand, but its also going to give other teams the ability to raise sponsorships and if the costs are cut by 30 or 40 percent, it’s going to allow new people to join the sport, which I feel is very, very important as we go forward.

https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2020/01/09/roger-penske-likes-direction-nascar-and-his-organization-are-going/
That sounds pretty low, I hope he is wrong, Penske was saying 30 to 40%. That is a total expense figure though and not just the car.
 

FLRacingFan

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I was listening to Brad Daugherty tonight on the late shift and a couple things I found interesting.

- at this point they haven't been given too much of an idea of how many parts on the new car will he standardized

- he's hoping that the new car us 10 to 15 percent cheaper than the existing

- he made a mention of the high initial cost that must be incurred by each team having to buy all new equipment. Which leads me to thinking of how some of these second and third tier teams will make it through that. They can't use anything from their existing fleet and there's nobody's old generation of equipment that they can purchase at a reduced cost. When they buy someone's old stuff you would think they are getting it for more than 10 to 15 percent off, so this new cost saving car will cost them more than what they're paying for the equipment they're getting now?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Haven't heard an update since, but teams were and likely still have been asking for NASCAR to alleviate some of those initial costs. 10-15% does seem too low, not nearly significant enough, although I wonder if that is a total cost over a period of time including teams taking the brunt of the hit for building up a fleet instead of average annual budget several years down the line.

 

StandOnIt

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What is interesting is that there are two new teams recently reported in the truck series. This is after expenses were cut with the spec motor change. I'm not in any way suggesting that cup cars do the same with a spec motor , but instead seeing the effects of less expenses that could be the cause of increasing teams in the truck series.
 

FLRacingFan

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Which is where Dallara comes in, even then Dallara are far from novices when it comes to building race cars. There's a reason why Dallara won IndyCar's ICONIC project over the DeltaWing, Swift, and LOLA's entry you know.
None of the rest of those were worth choosing and Dallara was the safe choice, having been the incumbent chassis builder. The DW12 was debuted with significant balance issues that still linger even through all of the updates made to the car since then. Their current prototype, the P217, has suffered from significant balance issues even through several evos and updates and is run by maybe one or two customers outside of its IMSA programs, which is more thanks to Cadillac than anything else.

They wouldn't necessarily be a bad choice but they're not a great choice either.
 

Kiante

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What is interesting is that there are two new teams recently reported in the truck series. This is after expenses were cut with the spec motor change. I'm not in any way suggesting that cup cars do the same with a spec motor , but instead seeing the effects of less expenses that could be the cause of increasing teams in the truck series.
Are there any articles stating how much engines like the NT1 are cost savings wise to truck teams?

I'm extremely curious as well.
 

StandOnIt

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Are there any articles stating how much engines like the NT1 are cost savings wise to truck teams?

I'm extremely curious as well.
It isn't just the cost savings, smaller teams, startup teams get a competitive engine. Taking the "engineering" out of some of the common parts on the cup side can do the same thing.
 

aunty dive

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This is interesting. I guess they needed a different "package".

 

Acs

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Is he off the throttle in the middle of the corner? Also damn that sounds so much more like a muscle car it's great.
 

StandOnIt

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Is he off the throttle in the middle of the corner? Also damn that sounds so much more like a muscle car it's great.
Yeah it sounds different than the last test, way more throaty.
 
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SpeedPagan

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I would love to see the telemetry data from these test sessions.
 

Acs

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Some good quotes from Erik Jones and John Probst here at Jayski

Erik Jones on the difference in feel compared with the current car
It’s definitely a big aero change. We have a lot of sideforce in our cars now and there is a lot to lean on – when you get loose the car kind of corrects itself and straightens itself out. This car doesn’t really have any of that. The quarter panels are so short and there’s no offset in the car – it’s very symmetrical – so there’s not a lot to lean on in this car. I think a lot of the aero changes they’ve done are going to help as far as racing goes, especially racing in a pack. Other than that, as we were working on things, some driving characteristics are similar. I think there is definitely more grip to be had as far as what the car is capable of. I think as far as development goes, there is going to be a lot more mechanical grip available than what we currently have.
 

StandOnIt

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They are building the second version of the car different from the first. I wonder when that one will hit the track for testing.
 
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