'21 Generation 7 Car news

SpeedPagan said:
An interesting thing that stood out to me was how long it took for the tires to get warmed up. I guess it's to be expected with a bigger tire so it'll add a new dimension to strategy and racing.
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iRacing has changed their tire model several times and the temperature build-up is not one of their strong suits. I wouldn't put any thought into that in terms of what the real tires are going to do.

For those who don't iRace, don't get too swept into the hype. It's good compared to Gran Turismo or Forza, for sure. But the realism still is far from true to life in a lot of respects. There's a reason why guys like Timmy Hill are better in iRacing than top tier real life drivers like say Brad K. Because the skills needed to be fast in iRacing are different than the skills needed in real life. The two aren't 100% interchangeable.
 
I have to say I like the look of the new cars. But the real test is how they will race.
 
cheesepuffs said:
iRacing has changed their tire model several times and the temperature build-up is not one of their strong suits. I wouldn't put any thought into that in terms of what the real tires are going to do.

For those who don't iRace, don't get too swept into the hype. It's good compared to Gran Turismo or Forza, for sure. But the realism still is far from true to life in a lot of respects. There's a reason why guys like Timmy Hill are better in iRacing than top tier real life drivers like say Brad K. Because the skills needed to be fast in iRacing are different than the skills needed in real life. The two aren't 100% interchangeable.
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Kez won the Dega race a couple weeks ago, said the cars drove like they did a couple of years ago. No telling what version that was. :idunno:
 
cheesepuffs said:
iRacing has changed their tire model several times and the temperature build-up is not one of their strong suits. I wouldn't put any thought into that in terms of what the real tires are going to do.

For those who don't iRace, don't get too swept into the hype. It's good compared to Gran Turismo or Forza, for sure. But the realism still is far from true to life in a lot of respects. There's a reason why guys like Timmy Hill are better in iRacing than top tier real life drivers like say Brad K. Because the skills needed to be fast in iRacing are different than the skills needed in real life. The two aren't 100% interchangeable.
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I don't agree fully with this. IMO it's just weird because you can't "feel" the car, so it's hard to feel the edge unless you're very used to the format. Dale Jr has spoken about this extensively, it's part of why he recruited Josh Berry
 
Interesting that the "spec-ness" of this car is being discussed on social media. I hate spec...but I really don't think of the NextGen as spec. I get the common part suppliers, etc.; but with different bodies, and most importantly, engines, I am good with this model. Add to all of this the cost savings, and potential new manufacturers.....Win/win.
 
yeah I am not arguing with what Cheesepuffs said, some drivers are better at video games than others, but when Keselowski who is good on the supers says that the cars drive like they did a couple of years ago I have to give that weight also.
 
Have any teams come out and said what this car will mean in terms of reduction of staff? I imagine a lot of people will be looking for jobs come November

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Revman said:
Interesting that the "spec-ness" of this car is being discussed on social media. I hate spec...but I really don't think of the NextGen as spec. I get the common part suppliers, etc.; but with different bodies, and most importantly, engines, I am good with this model. Add to all of this the cost savings, and potential new manufacturers.....Win/win.
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there is talk about owners being able to run the team off of prize money and that hasn't been around for a long time. There are millionaires and billionaires and a factory running the show right now in order to be competative. If that takes spec parts to help even the playing field so be it. BTW Rev, I think you would have done a better job interducing the car that this Wilson character. His outstanding characteristic about the yota was the round badge on the trunk..Hamlin looked like he mugged Dorothy from the Wizzard of Oz for her ruby slippers.
 
wi_racefan said:
Have any teams come out and said what this car will mean in terms of reduction of staff? I imagine a lot of people will be looking for jobs come November

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It is interesting how the reduction in force is not openly discussed as part of the cost savings. I mean, hell, if we are going to complain about hotel costs and insurance, certainly trimming annual salary has to be significant.
 
Revman said:
It is interesting how the reduction in force is not openly discussed as part of the cost savings. I mean, hell, if we are going to complain about hotel costs and insurance, certainly trimming annual salary has to be significant.
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Hotel costs are a drop in the bucket compared to what some of these fabricators are getting paid. For starters I would think you be able to cut half of the body shop and chassis fabricators.

Figure they are paying $250 a night for hotels. That's roughly 25k a year in hotels per guy (actually I think that number is probably a little high). I'm willing to bet no one that touches a race car is working for anywhere near that

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wi_racefan said:
Hotel costs are a drop in the bucket compared to what some of these fabricators are getting paid. For starters I would think you be able to cut half of the body shop and chassis fabricators.

Figure they are paying $250 a night for hotels. That's roughly 25k a year in hotels per guy (actually I think that number is probably a little high). I'm willing to bet no one that touches a race car is working for anywhere near that

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That number is definitely a little high. Teams don't usually pay the inflated prices on race weekends like the fans do. There are companies like Racing circuit that the teams travel coordinator will use to start booking rooms as soon as the new race schedule comes out. The booking company will book such a large amount of rooms that they get a good enough rate for the teams that it is cost effective to hire them to book the rooms. We normally stayed in the Hilton, Marriot, Embassy suites, and a few of the other higher end hotels and our rates were usually between $100 to $150 a night per room. Also keep in mind that except at selected races where a crewmember might bring their family... that usually there will be 2 crewmembers per room.
 
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Nitro Dude said:
That number is definitely a little high. Teams don't usually pay the inflated prices on race weekends like the fans do. There are companies like Racing circuit that the teams travel coordinator will use to start booking rooms as soon as the new race schedule comes out. The booking company will book such a large amount of rooms that they get a good enough rate for the teams that it is cost effective to hire them to book the rooms. We normally stayed in the Hilton, Marriot, Embassy suites, and a few of the other higher end hotels and our rates were usually between $100 to $150 a night per room. Also keep in mind that except at selected races where a crewmember might bring their family... that usually there will be 2 crewmembers per room.
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Wow 2 guys to a room. We don't even make our field crew guys do that and our operating budget is no where near what a cup team is

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Hawaii808 said:
Always wondered what the honeycomb was about. The more you know…
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They put the pattern in there so they can spot any bodywork especially bondo. It isn't all over just in the places where teams like to do a little creative bodywork.
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Mispeedway15 said:
I don't agree fully with this. IMO it's just weird because you can't "feel" the car, so it's hard to feel the edge unless you're very used to the format. Dale Jr has spoken about this extensively, it's part of why he recruited Josh Berry
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Ty Majeski would have 7 Cup championships by now if thats how it really worked. Keep in mind that Dale Jr now works for iRacing. He's on the payroll, he's going to talk it up.

The tire model up until fairly recently had the most grip when dead cold to start a run, no heat, then fell off immediately as it got temperature. Dirty air and drafting in iRacing are the exact same because they haven't been able to figure out how to model dirty air yet. There's no cushion effect when running the high line against the wall either because that also hasn't been figured out. There's glitches in setups sometimes where the most camber you run the faster you go, even if it's a cartoonish amount of camber that is nothing close to realistic. It's a good video game game but people need to to acting like it's reality.
 
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wi_racefan said:
Have any teams come out and said what this car will mean in terms of reduction of staff? I imagine a lot of people will be looking for jobs come November

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Tons of people are losing their jobs, yes. No more chassis builders at the teams, also spec shocks and control arms now. No need for shock builders. Tons of the manufacturing jobs in-house for these teams now cease to exist.
 
cheesepuffs said:
You're missing some of the details. The body lines on the doors, the quarter panel creases, and even some character lines toward the rear corners before the bumper are unique to each car. They are not identical from the B pillar back.
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I'll have to see bigger pictures. I'm not seeing the details from what's here but I'll take your word.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Tons of people are losing their jobs, yes. No more chassis builders at the teams, also spec shocks and control arms now. No need for shock builders. Tons of the manufacturing jobs in-house for these teams now cease to exist.
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That will really suck for a lot of very good hard working employees with families to feed that may still have been recovering financially from the time off due to the pandemic. The driver haulers is one job that it shouldn't affect though. They will still need to get the cars to the track on schedule .
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'll have to see bigger pictures. I'm not seeing the details from what's here but I'll take your word.
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post 2251 is a better comparison picture. They're aren't many pics out there yet and hardly any of the rear of the cars. It's pretty close on the Ford anyway, nothing to compare to on the Yota, and the Camaro hardly has any but a straight on rear shot
 
SpeedPagan said:
An interesting thing that stood out to me was how long it took for the tires to get warmed up. I guess it's to be expected with a bigger tire so it'll add a new dimension to strategy and racing.
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I would expect a 'shorter', wider tire to warm up quicker. There's less overall air, and more of it is near the face / contact surface. But I'm certainly no expert.

EDIT: I just realized y'all are talking about in iRacing, not a real world tire. Never mind.
 
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John Probst "senior VP, racing innovation said that the new composite should let the drivers get a little more aggressive. If they bang the wall or bump each other it shouldn't affect the performance of the car like before.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I would expect a 'shorter', wider tire to warm up quicker. There's less overall air, and more of it is near the face / contact surface. But I'm certainly no expert.
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I would expect a shorter wider tire to have a bunch more grip coupled with the fact they have reduced the heck out of unsprung weight and lowered the c/g at the same time
 
wi_racefan said:
Wow 2 guys to a room. We don't even make our field crew guys do that and our operating budget is no where near what a cup team is

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I don't know how many field guys you have out at one time, but you figure the amount of all of the crewmembers for all of the teams would require double the amount of rooms if they each had their own room and that would fill a lot of hotels up and there wouldn't be any rooms left for the fans. :) Crew chiefs get a room of their own, and because I drove the hauler and would get there a few days earlier for a lot of the races then I would book my own room and rental car at a hotel of my choice with the company credit card, but then when the rest of the team arrived on Thur I would move to the hotel that was pre booked for the team and have a roommate. It's not so bad because the crew guys pick there roommates for the season. Sometimes if there is an odd number then the seniority crewmember gets the single room if they want it. I have never worked on a NASCAR team but I assume they do it the same way.
 
Some interesting comments on future engine architecture from David Wilson in here. Still very early in the game regarding a new formula there.
According to Wilson, once the industry gets over the initial chassis and aero hurdles Next Gen presents, the next piece under discussion is where to go with engines in the future. Hybrid implementation is part of that equation, but the engines themselves are likely to see an eventual redesign. We asked Wilson to give us an idea of where TRD is looking when it comes to engines and he was very frank to share that TRD is “not married to anything” and they would “take a real hard look at a V-6.” Wilson said that all of the OEMs have V-6 engines and that “the direction has been smaller, more efficient engines” that are in many cases “married up to some sort of hybrid component.” Wilson said he wouldn’t be surprised if the new engine was a V-6 or maybe a smaller displacement, more-efficient V-8.
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Wilson would like to see a clean-sheet design for the next engine formula. His fantasy idea of a potential engine would involve starting with an aluminum block and multi-valve overhead cam heads and employing technologies like direction injection, maybe even married to a turbocharger. These would be relevant technologies to production cars, but Wilson was careful to note that these are just potential future ideas and that TRD’s focus right now is to get the Next Gen car on track.
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www.roadandtrack.com

NASCAR's Next Gen Cup Car Is a Revolution in a Sport Built on Evolution

While the engines are the same, NASCAR's 2022 race car is different in every other conceivable way.
www.roadandtrack.com www.roadandtrack.com
 
FLRacingFan said:
Some interesting comments on future engine architecture from David Wilson in here. Still very early in the game regarding a new formula there.




www.roadandtrack.com

NASCAR's Next Gen Cup Car Is a Revolution in a Sport Built on Evolution

While the engines are the same, NASCAR's 2022 race car is different in every other conceivable way.
www.roadandtrack.com www.roadandtrack.com
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The next engine formula will be important. I'm all for road relevancy, however I think NASCAR will probably stick with a V8. However, it will not be OHV, but will probably go the route of a DOHC.

However, Toyota outside of the Tundra/Sequoia/Land Crusier, do not push the V8 deal like that. We'll see with Ford and GM with the Ford Mustang GT350 and the C8 Corvette will probably lean toward DOHC V8s. Both have dabled with it, so we'll see how Toyota gets on in the future.

Maybe NASCAR loosens regulations as well? I think going the V8 Supercars route would be an interesting deal. They have the option to run a 4, 6, or 8 cylinder engines as long as it does not surpass 680 hp. I think with loosened options like that will bring more interest at the highest level in Cup. If NASCAR has a similar cap of 650-680 and a mix of the hybridization piece at a reasonable cost, I think it can work and create more OEM interest as well.
 
Kiante said:
The next engine formula will be important. I'm all for road relevancy, however I think NASCAR will probably stick with a V8. However, it will not be OHV, but will probably go the route of a DOHC.

However, Toyota outside of the Tundra/Sequoia/Land Crusier, do not push the V8 deal like that. We'll see with Ford and GM with the Ford Mustang GT350 and the C8 Corvette will probably lean toward DOHC V8s. Both have dabled with it, so we'll see how Toyota gets on in the future.

Maybe NASCAR loosens regulations as well? I think going the V8 Supercars route would be an interesting deal. They have the option to run a 4, 6, or 8 cylinder engines as long as it does not surpass 680 hp. I think with loosened options like that will bring more interest at the highest level in Cup. If NASCAR has a similar cap of 650-680 and a mix of the hybridization piece at a reasonable cost, I think it can work and create more OEM interest as well.
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I’m thinking a smaller displacement V8 myself, especially with them targeting 550/670 HP.

Gen3 Supercars will all be V8s IIRC, but with different designs allowed.
 
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FLRacingFan said:
I’m thinking a smaller displacement V8 myself, especially with them targeting 550/670 HP.
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Which is fine, I'm all for it.

I just feel as if racing needs to be a bit more cylindrical. I mean this in being able to use similar engines to be used in stock and sportscars.

Here is the horsepower limit, bit at the same time make it so the makers can do whats relevent to them. If this marque specializes in 4 bangers, V6, or even an inline-6, let them do what they want to do. This is the price point and here is your power number you cannot surpass without the hybrid piece.

Give them a clean sheet, yet challenge them to keep it cost effective. This is just my wild thinking though, I think NASCAR will know better than me. This is why I'm just a fan and not an big head behind the scenes.

Smaller displacement V8s sound like the best option though. Maybe downsize to a 302 (5.0 liter) or somewhere around there, just spitballing here.
 
Kiante said:
The next engine formula will be important. I'm all for road relevancy, however I think NASCAR will probably stick with a V8. However, it will not be OHV, but will probably go the route of a DOHC.

However, Toyota outside of the Tundra/Sequoia/Land Crusier, do not push the V8 deal like that. We'll see with Ford and GM with the Ford Mustang GT350 and the C8 Corvette will probably lean toward DOHC V8s. Both have dabled with it, so we'll see how Toyota gets on in the future.

Maybe NASCAR loosens regulations as well? I think going the V8 Supercars route would be an interesting deal. They have the option to run a 4, 6, or 8 cylinder engines as long as it does not surpass 680 hp. I think with loosened options like that will bring more interest at the highest level in Cup. If NASCAR has a similar cap of 650-680 and a mix of the hybridization piece at a reasonable cost, I think it can work and create more OEM interest as well.
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The horsepower argument to bring in new manufactures has always been horse****. Both Toyota and Honda develop engines for Indy and they happily make 900 horsepower. I think if NASCAR really wanted someone like Honda in the game, they would have been here already.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
The horsepower argument to bring in new manufactures has always been horse****. Both Toyota and Honda develop engines for Indy and they happily make 900 horsepower. I think if NASCAR really wanted someone like Honda in the game, they would have been here already.
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Honda (HPD) has IndyCar, support series (SRO, F4 Americas, etc.), and IMSA with its respected sportscar and open-wheel series. Honda has a pretty full cup, they would have to drop IMSA or IndyCar to move to NASCAR.

Honda has stated that, I feel as if costs vs. returns were just not enough for makers to move in. This is why I feel letting OEM decide on what they want to run configuration wise with a cost cap and "Horsepower cap" is the best thing to do.

Toyota has accredited NASCAR with its growth in North America, its the reason why they bought in long-term. Other makers I feel are probably interested, but costs.
 
Kiante said:
Honda (HPD) has IndyCar, support series (SRO, F4 Americas, etc.), and IMSA with its respected sportscar and open-wheel series. Honda has a pretty full cup, they would have to drop IMSA or IndyCar to move to NASCAR.

Honda has stated that, I feel as if costs were just not enough for makers to move in. This is why I feel letting OEM decide on what they want to run configuration wise with a cost cap and "Horsepower cap" is the best thing to do.
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That makes sense.
 
Kiante said:
Honda (HPD) has IndyCar, support series (SRO, F4 Americas, etc.), and IMSA with its respected sportscar and open-wheel series. Honda has a pretty full cup, they would have to drop IMSA or IndyCar to move to NASCAR.

Honda has stated that, I feel as if costs vs. returns were just not enough for makers to move in. This is why I feel letting OEM decide on what they want to run configuration wise with a cost cap and "Horsepower cap" is the best thing to do.

Toyota has accredited NASCAR with its growth in North America, its the reason why they bought in long-term. Other makers I feel are probably interested, but costs.
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that's mostly it. Developing a motor from scratch is very expensive. Even Dodge's motor is a 2012 model and is undoubtedly behind the times.
 
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