'21 Generation 7 Car news

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I'd personally like to see free reign on designs, but everyone would probably have Rotaform like turbine wheels:
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Anyways, they look good.
 
Never been concerned about aesthetics. Probably why I wear Dickies pants & black t-shirts 7 days a week. I would be fine if they followed the Wood Brothers and all the cars were white with a small % of another color. Put the drivers name on windshield and hammer down. Actually guess I DO care about aesthetics as I really don't like the different paint schemes every 3 weeks. It's ALL about selling toy cars.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
I really hope they let teams paint the wheels. Also, I’m hopeful that maybe next season they will have OEM specific wheel designs that mirror wheel designs found on the dealership counterpart.
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I hate painted wheels. Makes the Penske Perfect thing look backyard finished to me. No chance on the wheel designs. $.
 
I could see them letting them paint/color the wheels but I see no why they'd let them change the design. I can only imagine how much money teams would spend trying to make the most aerodynamic wheels. Heck some would have different wheel designs for different types of tracks.
 
wi_racefan said:
I could see them letting them paint/color the wheels but I see no why they'd let them change the design. I can only imagine how much money teams would spend trying to make the most aerodynamic wheels. Heck some would have different wheel designs for different types of tracks.
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In my thought, the wheel design would have to match a design in use by the OEM and it’s the only design allowed for the season by each manufacturer. It brings the sport just that much closer to “win on sunday sell on monday”.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
In my thought, the wheel design would have to match a design in use by the OEM and it’s the only design allowed for the season by each manufacturer. It brings the sport just that much closer to “win on sunday sell on monday”.
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Teams would do a lot to make them "resemble" OEM but add things to provide an advantage. Heck look what teams have been doing to body panels for years

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wi_racefan said:
Teams would do a lot to make them "resemble" OEM but add things to provide an advantage. Heck look what teams have been doing to body panels for years

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Well then that’s up to NASCAR to catch, just like the rest of the car.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
In my thought, the wheel design would have to match a design in use by the OEM and it’s the only design allowed for the season by each manufacturer. It brings the sport just that much closer to “win on sunday sell on monday”.
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The teams are in the process of purchasing wheels for next season.

What would they do with them if new designs were required?
 
ChexOrWrex said:
I think I said “maybe next season” and I was thinking too far ahead. I meant after next season.
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I understood.

A series and an owners’ group that’s trying to reduce capital and operating costs are unlikely to be interested in replacing hundreds of cast aluminum pin-drive center-lock wheels after 1 season. Or two or three.

A single chartered car needs a dozen sets of wheels. Minimum.
 
aunty dive said:
I understood.

A series and an owners’ group that’s trying to reduce capital and operating costs are unlikely to be interested in replacing hundreds of cast aluminum pin-drive center-lock wheels after 1 season. Or two or three.

A single chartered car needs a dozen sets of wheels. Minimum.
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There have been so many seasons where a body style on an OEM vehicle changes, and the Performance side decides to alter the design of the nose or fenders etc... of the NASCAR body to match. What’s the difference in how they dispose of the unusable body pieces?
 
Revman said:
I hate painted wheels. Makes the Penske Perfect thing look backyard finished to me. No chance on the wheel designs. $.
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I think the Penske cars are pretty much the ONLY ones that look worth a damn. I DESPISE black wheels with every fiber of my being. They make $100,000 car look like refugee from a chop shop. My often repeated phrase at car shows is, "I wouldn't put brown interior in an outhouse, and I wouldn't put black wheels on a manure spreader."
 
Old Kid said:
I'll bet 40 of them will look and sound even better out there. :cool:
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You sure that is the Camry? It was a tire test, so I was wondering if they brought the mule. Couldn't get a good look at it....and there was nothing but Next Gen on it....
 
Revman said:
You sure that is the Camry? It was a tire test, so I was wondering if they brought the mule. Couldn't get a good look at it....and there was nothing but Next Gen on it....
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Can't do much with making a more door look like a race car, so just copy the heck out of a Camaro ;)

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Mispeedway15 said:
I’ve been saying this as well. They’re basically copying what an IMSA GT car just with more HP....
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People keep saying Nascar's Next Gen car is conceptually similar to the GT-3 cars raced in IMSA, but I don't think this is remotely correct. Are GT-3 cars built with clean sheet, dedicated race-only chassis? I don't think any of them are. And I'm certain they're *not* all using the exact same third-party supplied chassis.

I believe spurious comparisons to IMSA GT-3 just muddy the waters and create confusion. Here is an article about an Audi. The GT-3 version starts with the same chassis used by the road car, which then gets modified for racing. That's very, very different from what Nascar is doing.

www.whichcar.com.au

GT3 racer vs road car: what’s the difference?

How much is different on the GT3 racers that are tackling Bathurst, compared to their road-going brothers
www.whichcar.com.au www.whichcar.com.au
 
LewTheShoe said:
People keep saying Nascar's Next Gen car is conceptually similar to the GT-3 cars raced in IMSA, but I don't think this is remotely correct. Are GT-3 cars built with clean sheet, dedicated race-only chassis? I don't think any of them are. And I'm certain they're *not* all using the exact same third-party supplied chassis.

I believe spurious comparisons to IMSA GT-3 just muddy the waters and create confusion. Here is an article about an Audi. The GT-3 version starts with the same chassis used by the road car, which then gets modified for racing. That's very, very different from what Nascar is doing.

www.whichcar.com.au

GT3 racer vs road car: what’s the difference?

How much is different on the GT3 racers that are tackling Bathurst, compared to their road-going brothers
www.whichcar.com.au www.whichcar.com.au
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The biggest influence from the GT3 cars is the IRS with shocks and springs in a coilover design. Just like the GT3 cars, these shocks and springs are connected to control arms that are connected to aluminum uprights. All of which will assist in handling at road courses.
 
I think the new cars derive from the V8 Supercars ... like the shop full of them that Roger Penske campaigned down under.

Coil-over shock technology, rack and pinion steering systems and aluminum / unobtanium uprights and hubs are decades old.
 
aunty dive said:
I think the new cars derive from the V8 Supercars ... like the shop full of them that Roger Penske campaigned down under.

Coil-over shock technology, rack and pinion steering systems and aluminum / unobtanium uprights and hubs are decades old.
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Last I heard the transaxle, shifter etc, came from the same company that makes them for the supercars
 
ChexOrWrex said:
They’re inspired by both.
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The inspiration for Nascar's Next Gen is primarily the Dallara-built spec IndyCar. That is where the whole concept came from. If you search through the early pages of this thread, I'm sure you will find Penske and Ganassi lamenting how much they spend in Nascar developing and then fabricating unique brake systems, suspension systems, hubs and uprights... and the paying audience can't even see these parts and doesn't care about them (they claim). Penske in particular was vocal about the better cost efficiency of the spec Dallara concept emplayed by IndyCar. That is the inspiration for Next Gen.

And therein lies the risk of this whole deal, IMO. The Next Gen concept is predicated upon the fanbase not caring that these are completely spec cars. I, for one, do care. I have thought long and hard about my general ambivalence toward IndyCar. Part of it is that the cars are all the same, while in Nascar, a Penske is not the same as a SHR or a Hendrick or a Childress car. The differences are small, but they are real. Time will tell how I (and others) feel about the spec sameness of Nascar cars in the future. It is a risk they have decided to take... eyes wide open.

On the other hand, I am very excited by the slew of new entrants lining up to join the ownership ranks. I feel the spec sameness of the cars is what makes Trackhouse and Kaulig and 23XI and others want to be there. It gives them hope that they can be competitive. So far, it is working just the way Roger Penske said it would..:salute:
 
I think the Nascars have more torque than the supercars. I think the supercars use a small overhead cam V8. I don't know what the pushrod size is though. There are bound to be bugs with the new car. The COT had a few and so did the later Gens.
 
We’ve seen these technologies before.

After NASCAR killed its regional Sportsman class (re-branded in 1982 as the Busch Grand Series) a lot of racers were left high and dry.

In 1985, they created the Tours ... Northwest, Southwest, Mid-west, Southeast and I think 1 more. Doesn’t matter.
What does matter is the cars they wrote into the rules.

105” wheelbase
2900 pounds
Fibreglass hood / fenders and rear quarters / aluminum door panels and deck lid
Coil-over shock suspension / rack and pinion steering / quick-change rear end
Roller tappet camshafts and an 850 cfm carburetor

Fast. Too fast at companion events with the Cup Series at places like Phoenix and Sonoma. They had to kill it and they did.

Harvick, the Busch brothers and others ran those cars. “Everything old is new again”

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Wide - 5 hubs and wheels. Lost some unsprung weight.
 
aunty dive said:
We’ve seen these technologies before.

After NASCAR killed its regional Sportsman class (re-branded in 1982 as the Busch Grand Series) a lot of racers were left high and dry.

In 1985, they created the Tours ... Northwest, Southwest, Mid-west, Southeast and I think 1 more. Doesn’t matter.
What does matter is the cars they wrote into the rules.

105” wheelbase
2900 pounds
Fibreglass hood / fenders and rear quarters / aluminum door panels and deck lid
Coil-over shock suspension / rack and pinion steering / quick-change rear end
Roller tappet camshafts and an 850 cfm carburetor

Fast. Too fast at companion events with the Cup Series at places like Phoenix and Sonoma. They had to kill it and they did.

Harvick, the Busch brothers and others ran those cars. “Everything old is new again”

View attachment 56960

Wide - 5 hubs and wheels. Lost some unsprung weight.
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the new Nascars are 3400 lbs I believe they said, and I was thinking the present cars are 3200. 2900 would be quite a difference right there.
 
StandOnIt said:
the new Nascars are 3400 lbs I believe they said, and I was thinking the present cars are 3200. 2900 would be quite a difference right there.
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They handled better. Much better. The rack is much more precise.

And the engines made lots of power thanks to the roller cam. At that time, Cup cars were limited to flat tappet camshafts.
 
I’m waiting patiently for the conversation to turn to real-world performance.

I think the carbon fiber undertray/diffuser combination will turn out to be a big deal.
 
aunty dive said:
I’m waiting patiently for the conversation to turn to real-world performance.

I think the carbon fiber undertray/diffuser combination will turn out to be a big deal.
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I agree about the undertray/diffuser on these Nascars. That 'Car & Driver' article that SOI linked said the diffusers will be track-specific, which I had not heard previously.

But the next gen Nascars have so many other levers that can be pulled to create the desired style of racing. I think we have to wait a while to know what the racing will be like. I have not heard anyone in authority say they want to move away from the flat-foot WFO style of racing on intermediate tracks. And from the Atlanta Motor Speedway plans, I think it's clear that Marcus Smith remains 'all in' on the WFO style with emphasis on pack racing. I hope I'm wrong, but that's how I read the tea leaves at this early date.
 
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