All-Star race experimentation receives mostly high marks

Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by StandOnIt, May 20, 2018.

  1. Snappy D

    Snappy D 2017 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor

    This stretch of Watkins Glen, Bristol, Southern 500 and now Indy is my favorite of the year.
     
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  2. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    NASCAR America: Jeff Burton: Adding short tracks is not the right question

    “The conversation in my world is not, do we need to have more short tracks,” Burton said. “The conversation is how do we make the mile-and-halfs better. The variety in our series is what makes it awesome. The fact that you run so many different kinds of race tracks. That is the challenge.
    As NASCAR works to create an environment conducive to more side-by-side racing with a modification of this year’s rules package used in the All-Star race, the fans need to vote with their time and their wallets.

    https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2018/0...dding-short-tracks-is-not-the-right-question/
     
  3. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

  4. AdoubleU24

    AdoubleU24 Team Owner

    What a year that was. Heart is still a little broken though.
     
    DUN24 likes this.
  5. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    “Variety is what makes the sport awesome”

    Meanwhile the series is dominated by cookie cutter mile and halfs/2 milers.

    The variety isnt the issue, its choosing which tracks get second dates. So far this decision has been made by number of seats potentially filled rather than the level of excitement the racing produces.
     
    AuzGrams likes this.
  6. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    I watched the All Star race last night on YouTube, and I kept falling asleep. I think the part I hated the most was how depended on each others to get to the front. There's been a few times where a car got shuffled out of the pack & fell like a stone because of the aero & restrictor plates.

    This is not racing.
     
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  7. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    I didn't miss the ones coming form the rear to the front. Suarez started 19th came in 2nd, Logano from 10th to 3rd, Hamlin from 14th to 4th, and Elliott 21st to 5th in 80 laps and they all had a shot at winning. If you were a fan of any of those drivers you were in it until the flag flew. A few tweaks, more speed in my case, and it could wake up the 1.5's.
     
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  8. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    Honestly, I think the best move would be to get rid of the splitter, reduce the spoilers to like 1.5 to 2 inches and put the 800hp back in. Then you'll see a real show.
     
  9. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    i don't think they would be very drivable
     
  10. Mopardh9

    Mopardh9 Team Owner Contributor

    Agreed...why mess with a new package?
     
  11. Westy

    Westy Support local tracks

    I can't wait to see "plate specialists" like Ragan and Bayne battling for wins at the 1.5s...
     
  12. AuzGrams

    AuzGrams Team Owner

    Well duh... Gateway, Road America could be alternatives.
     
    LewTheShoe likes this.
  13. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    Give you boys something else to throw rocks at

    Insider: Looming change will help restore some of Brickyard’s lost luster

    Boles and NASCAR can take pride in knowing that they made gains, if only incremental. But there’s still more work to be done. Still one more critical change that could help kick this Brickyard revitalization project into the next gear: Introduce the Xfinity Series’ All-Star package to the Cup Series race at IMS.

    A quick refresher for those who need it: The all-star package is an aerodynamics package built to keep cars close together and produce enhanced on-track action. It greatly reduces the overall speed and keeps a frontrunner from running away from the field. It’s not perfect, but it’s the best NASCAR has. And more important, it works at IMS.

    For the past two years, fans have watched as the back-and-forth action of the Xfinity Series race has outshined its Cup brethren. This year's version was tight and unpredictable. The highlight of Monday’s doubleheader was easily the Xfinity Series drivers' four-wide fight for the win at the end of Stage 1. It was wild, and just the type of action the Brickyard needs.

    Now, some Cup Series drivers aren’t going to be happy. Actually, the truth is most of them hate it because it’s not pure racing.

    “It’s all luck,” regular-season champ Kyle Busch said after finishing eighth in Monday’s race. “There’s no skill. You just pretty much get yourself in a position, you try to pass, you try to hold guys off behind you and hope you’re in the right spot at the right time when it all single files out, then that’s kind of what you’re going to be. Restarts are chaos, and a lot of wrecked cars, a lot of beat up fenders and noses and tails, but I guess that’s what everybody wants.”

    “It’s not a driver’s package,” added Denny Hamlin, Monday’s third-place finisher. “So you won’t hear much good about it from us.”

    He’s right. IndyStar spoke with numerous drivers about the package throughout the weekend, and the closest any Cup Series driver came to advocating for it was Chase Elliott. And even his support was half-hearted.

    “It doesn’t matter to me,” said Monday’s 15th-place finisher. “I’ll drive whatever. If it’s more entertaining to watch, then it’s a win. If it’s not, then it’s not. But it doesn’t matter to me.”

    Even though Elliott sounded like a driver resigned to a cruel fate, he hit the nail on the head. While it’s a tough pill for drivers to swallow, professional motorsports are spectacle. They are entertainment. The No. 1 goal is to please fans because without them, there are no professional motorsports. So the harsh truth drivers need to face is that if the all-star package does produce more entertaining racing – gimmick or not – that’s what they need to do.

    Fortunately, it sounds like that’s exactly the path NASCAR is headed down, much to the chagrin of Kyle Busch.

    “It’s coming no matter what, so it doesn’t really matter what I think,” the one-time champion said. “That’s going to be what we got next year whether we like it or not.”

    Sorry, Kyle. You’re probably not wrong about the type of racing that’s coming, but for the sake of the Brickyard, it’s what must be done.

    https://www.indystar.com/story/spor...store-some-brickyards-lost-luster/1251514002/
     
  14. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Thanks for the fodder.

    I'll point out the absurdity of the following subjective assessment: "For the past two years, fans have watched as the back-and-forth action of the Xfinity Series race has outshined its Cup brethren."

    Let's break this down. For the past two years, according to Ayello, "fans" believe the Xfinity series outshines the Cup series. What these wishful thinkers are claiming is that the masses - the millions who have seemingly abandoned NASCAR entirely - will tune back in for high-downforce, lower-power racing that is more "entertaining". Their proof? The supposed greater popularity of a secondary series that on average draws 30-40% of the audience that Cup series races do. On the whole, Xfinity series viewership has been down, as have Cup races.

    That's some airtight thinking there. Sorry, Jim. I'll still take all the racers' word for it and quit pretending the fad days are within reach.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
  15. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    Screw the Brickyard 400, and any other track that requires cars that differ from what's run on the majority of the schedule. If the standard configuration is good enough at all but three of the tracks, maybe it's those tracks that need fixing, not the cars.
     
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  16. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

  17. AdoubleU24

    AdoubleU24 Team Owner

    I love the way the package races at Indy, however I'm not a fan of the leader having no advantage whatsoever and basically being defenseless. To be expected on the super speedways, but I wish they could tweak this some to where it wasn't as bad on the smaller tracks if they're going to roll with it.
     
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  18. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    I don't agree with the leader of the race being portrayed like a poor defenseless little lamb out front all by himself. I have watched too many laps of that package at Indy, it isn't the case. The leader out front still has the advantage, but a smaller one, and that is the key.
     
    AuzGrams likes this.
  19. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    Expected but still inexcusable.
     
    gnomesayin likes this.
  20. tclarson

    tclarson Tire changer

    FLRacingFan likes this.
  21. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    IMO punishing the leader, or any driver who is faster, is not racing.

    Right now NASCAR has an issue of the trailing driver having a bit of a disadvantage with the air. Punishing the leading car is not the solution, giving the trailing car less of a disadvantage is.
     
  22. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    It's going to happen it looks like, personally I enjoyed the Xfinity race at Indy more than the Cup cars, enjoyed the heck out of the first time trying something for the All Star race. I think the Drivers all like to think they have a technological advantage..if I can just get out front in clean air I can cruise to the win. Sorry buds, it is going to be elbows up for some of it next year.
     
  23. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Damn those lazy, dishonest drivers. They're lying about what is difficult to drive and what is easy to drive, and they don't want to have to work hard and take on the challenge of holding their right foot to the floor. It's probably the cramps they are most afraid of.
     
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  24. tclarson

    tclarson Tire changer

    I
    it only worked at indy and I would say only once. There was no getting around the leader this last race at indy towards the end and there was no getting around the 4 at the all star race. If I want to see drivers flat foot the whole time I’ll watch drag racing.
     
    gnomesayin likes this.
  25. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    As much as I hate to admit it, I think NASCAR MIGHT be onto something, but that doesn't mean it won't need a lot of refinement, and I don't think NASCAR will want to hear this, but there is likely no one size fits all solution. It might well require slightly different packages to produce good racing on different tracks. Just because it looked pretty good at Indy doesn't mean that exact same combo would work as well elsewhere.
     
    StandOnIt likes this.
  26. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    It is impossible for something so wrongheaded to work, even in a "broken clock is right twice a day" sense. The current Cup package is vastly superior to any mutation of the proposed drafting package. Every race at every venue it gets used will be worse and a less legitimate contest of skill. It's a dumpster fire. It's an abomination.

    When the announcement happens, I'll drop the nuance and tell you how I really feel.
     
  27. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    yep if they get on top of it and keep refining it, and Goodyear gets their tires right for the package, it can be big.
     
  28. tclarson

    tclarson Tire changer

    The cars need to be to much for the track to handle. That will make good racing.
     
  29. Mopardh9

    Mopardh9 Team Owner Contributor

    If it happens I'm done watching Cup on a serious level, I'd be a very casual fan. I have been saying the racing has been much better overall this year...why F' it up?
     
  30. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    yep and therein lies the rub, how much is too much and how little it too little.;)
     
  31. tclarson

    tclarson Tire changer

    Go over the top to much then. The cars are way to aero dependent. Why make the more? And on top of that take away the power? The new package is far to little
     
    gnomesayin likes this.
  32. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    and the faster they go the more aero dependent they are. case in point the trucks who go slower and punch a larger hole in the air although IMO are still too aero dependent allow for much more passing and closer finishes on average than any cup racing season lately.
     
  33. tclarson

    tclarson Tire changer

    Absolutely. The cars are sealed down way to much. The drivers need lift points into the corners. We can’t have 10 degas or Daytonas
     
  34. Mopardh9

    Mopardh9 Team Owner Contributor

    Thats what we are heading to if this continues.
     
  35. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

    I think Kansas and Texas would be the only two playoff races affected by the "NA18D". The playoff will actually be more demanding than the regular season, but the comments by the drivers are pretty damning of the concept in general. NASCAR can't like stuff like that being spoken on playoff media day.
     
    LewTheShoe likes this.
  36. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    I doubt that is going to be the case with the aero package. I watched two full race in cars cameras on YouTube at Indianapolis Bell and Allgaier and if they weren't saving fuel or saving the car, there was lifting in the corners and all kinds of feathering the throttle. Plenty of single car passes, but you saw what ya saw right?
     
  37. tclarson

    tclarson Tire changer

    I just listen to the drivers. If they say they can’t pass and they aren’t lifting, how can I deny that?
     
  38. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    and drivers never lie right? 38 green flag passes for the lead in the All Star race, can't pass right. The year before "0"
     
  39. Mopardh9

    Mopardh9 Team Owner Contributor

    It's a band aid, why make engines that produce 750hp if you are going to choke them down to 500hp? It's asinine.
     
    Charlie Spencer likes this.
  40. tclarson

    tclarson Tire changer

    I think you would find that those are between timing loops and not for laps. It’s very evident that it turns into just another pack plate race where the leader can block at will and they’ll just tear up a bunch of cars.
     
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