All-Star race experimentation receives mostly high marks

Utter has been employed in this business for so long, and all he can do to argue his cause is cite stats with zero context like some rotisserie geek.
 
StandOnIt said:
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Jim Utter is an absolute jackass.


I can deal with the stories of him being a general a**hole, having cars towed, blocking people that disagree with him on tweeter, arguing with journalists... but the nauseting sales pitches by the guy make me want to jump off a bridge.
 
This Jeff Gluck piece is a week old, but I hadn't seen it... four of Nascar's young guns saying the All Star-type racing is too easy for the Cup series because that needs to be more challenging, more skill-intensive as the top level of stock car racing. I strongly agree with them.

Young drivers express concerns over future of All-Star aero package

Four of NASCAR’s top young drivers expressed reservations Friday about moving forward with the high-drag/downforce aero package in future races.

While Bubba Wallace, Ryan Blaney, Alex Bowman and Christopher Bell all agreed on the entertainment value of the aero package — which was highly popular with fans in the recent All-Star Race — they said it wouldn’t be fitting for the Cup Series...

“As a race car driver, it’s pretty easy to drive,” Bowman said. “We’re the premier stock car series in the world, so obviously you would like it to be a little more difficult to drive. You don’t just want to go everywhere and be wide open...”

But while it might make for a better show, it also brings up a major dilemma: The level of difficulty is decreased.

“We’re all race car drivers; we want to show we’re the best,” said Bell, who has won the last two Chili Bowls and last year’s Truck Series title. “You can’t (show) that when you’re not pushing the issue of the tire and you’re not grip-limited. Whenever you’re not getting the most out of your race car, it’s just a different style of racing. It almost becomes more of chess racing, so to speak.”

Wallace said he saw a post on social media that said the dream of reaching the Cup Series meant being at a superior level, and the All-Star Race felt more like jumping into a local Saturday night race. The Richard Petty Motorsports driver agreed with that assessment.

“If you had the need for speed and decent car control, anybody could have driven that,” Wallace said. “And it shouldn’t be like that when you get up to the big leagues. You know: ‘I can play with LeBron; I can match him.’”

Blaney said the cars were “a little easy to drive” in the All-Star Race and preferred it to be more challenging. Like the others, he praised NASCAR for trying to improve the racing but said changes would be needed — whether it’s more horsepower or less downforce — to keep more of an emphasis on handling....
[ http://jeffgluck.com/nascar-aero-package-high-drag-bubba-wallace-blaney-bell-bowman/ ]

Also, here are Brad Keselowski's full comments on this issue, which were abbreviated earlier in this thread. Brad pulls no punches on the matter...
 
LewTheShoe said:
This Jeff Gluck piece is a week old, but I hadn't seen it... four of Nascar's young guns saying the All Star-type racing is too easy for the Cup series because that needs to be more challenging, more skill-intensive as the top level of stock car racing. I strongly agree with them.

Young drivers express concerns over future of All-Star aero package

Four of NASCAR’s top young drivers expressed reservations Friday about moving forward with the high-drag/downforce aero package in future races.

While Bubba Wallace, Ryan Blaney, Alex Bowman and Christopher Bell all agreed on the entertainment value of the aero package — which was highly popular with fans in the recent All-Star Race — they said it wouldn’t be fitting for the Cup Series...

“As a race car driver, it’s pretty easy to drive,” Bowman said. “We’re the premier stock car series in the world, so obviously you would like it to be a little more difficult to drive. You don’t just want to go everywhere and be wide open...”

But while it might make for a better show, it also brings up a major dilemma: The level of difficulty is decreased.

“We’re all race car drivers; we want to show we’re the best,” said Bell, who has won the last two Chili Bowls and last year’s Truck Series title. “You can’t (show) that when you’re not pushing the issue of the tire and you’re not grip-limited. Whenever you’re not getting the most out of your race car, it’s just a different style of racing. It almost becomes more of chess racing, so to speak.”

Wallace said he saw a post on social media that said the dream of reaching the Cup Series meant being at a superior level, and the All-Star Race felt more like jumping into a local Saturday night race. The Richard Petty Motorsports driver agreed with that assessment.

“If you had the need for speed and decent car control, anybody could have driven that,” Wallace said. “And it shouldn’t be like that when you get up to the big leagues. You know: ‘I can play with LeBron; I can match him.’”

Blaney said the cars were “a little easy to drive” in the All-Star Race and preferred it to be more challenging. Like the others, he praised NASCAR for trying to improve the racing but said changes would be needed — whether it’s more horsepower or less downforce — to keep more of an emphasis on handling....
[ http://jeffgluck.com/nascar-aero-package-high-drag-bubba-wallace-blaney-bell-bowman/ ]

Also, here are Brad Keselowski's full comments on this issue, which were abbreviated earlier in this thread. Brad pulls no punches on the matter...
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I agree with Brad 100%. I believe that long term, after the newness wears off, this package would destroy what is left of this sport. I am still in awe that so many people here, and in Nascar, approve of the idea. I have not seen a lot of support for it coming from the drivers. The few that have been outspoken have not been for it as far as I have seen. They all say what many of us here keep repeating, it doesn't require the same amount of skill.
 
Mark Martin doesn’t like it
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Long: Path to better NASCAR shouldn’t be us vs. them

Steve O’Donnell, NASCAR’s chief racing development officer, stressed that Monday on SiriusXM NASCAR Radio, saying: “This (package) is not something we’re looking at for every race. I see some of our current drivers make assumptions when they don’t have all the facts. It’s something we’re looking at for a few tracks. If we could pull it off and improve on something, we will but also very happy with the racing we have today.”

https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2018/06/12/path-to-better-nascar-shouldnt-be-us-vs-them/
 
Those "few" tracks happen to be the intermediates at which they race twice a year and make up the majority of the schedule with. So yes, mouth breather O'Donnell is correct, it isn't for every race - but the math says it would be for the majority of them.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Those "few" tracks happen to be the intermediates at which they race twice a year and make up the majority of the schedule with. So yes, mouth breather O'Donnell is correct, it isn't for every race - but the math says it would be for the majority of them.
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Yup. Condescending f***wad that guy is.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Those "few" tracks happen to be the intermediates at which they race twice a year and make up the majority of the schedule with. So yes, mouth breather O'Donnell is correct, it isn't for every race - but the math says it would be for the majority of them.
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Nate Ryan is **speculating** that the All Star aero rules might be tested this year at Michigan and Indy. Of course, 2018 test races and what ultimately becomes the 2019 rules could be very different things...
The success of the aero/horsepower combination in the Xfinity Series last weekend at Michigan makes it likely the rules package (which was a smash hit in the All-Star Race) will find its way into the Cup Series when the circuit returns Aug. 12 to Michigan.

But the momentum for using the package (which has stirred much debate) in the July 14 race at Kentucky Speedway seems to have stalled out after a decision appeared to be looming last week.

The playoffs are off the table for the package. So barring a sharp change in direction, it might be used only at Michigan and the Sept. 9 race at Indianapolis Motor Speedway, both tracks where drivers could remain in the throttle for a full lap and increase the efficacy of the aero/horsepower package on enhancing passing opportunities.
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The success Nate? By what measure? Never mind. Everyone has already made up their minds about this, and the momentum happens to be on one side for now, until the newness wears off and 'boredom' sets in again.

O'Donnell vaguely criticizes drivers for daring to voice general opinions while not having "all the facts". How would anyone have all the facts regarding decisions that either haven't been made or announced? They're trying to influence an ongoing process.
 
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They might try it for Indy I would guess they have the cup setup/motor they used at Charlotte reading between the lines at what ODonnell has said, not what a reporter or a driver's opinion is. It will be done once more this year at the Xfinity Indy race. Worked really well at Charlotte, decent at Michigan in the Xfinity, no help for one laner Pocono, and worked well at Indy last year.
 
To the chagrin of some here, I'm sure, no more plates and draggy bits in 2018...but they remain in play for 2019. Draggy stuff with a tapered spacer is also being considered for 2019.

Interestingly enough, Steve-O says this is all being considered while also claiming that NASCAR is "really happy" with the racing they have right now and that "the competition is closer than ever right now." Ummm...

Drafting package in play for 2019, not ’18
https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2...age-nascar-all-star-race-2019-steve-odonnell/
 
NASCAR will not use All-Star aero package again this season

Getting the drafting package in place for additional races in 2018 would have been a Herculean undertaking, and one that could have resulted in a rushed output. Instead, NASCAR will utilize the current rules package - one that has produced competitive racing in 2018 - for the remainder of the season.
Competition officials currently are considering an engine package that includes the use of a tapered spacer instead of a plate.

http://www.espn.com/jayski/cup/2018...ar-not-use-all-star-aero-package-again-season
 
StandOnIt said:
NASCAR will not use All-Star aero package again this season

Getting the drafting package in place for additional races in 2018 would have been a Herculean undertaking, and one that could have resulted in a rushed output. Instead, NASCAR will utilize the current rules package - one that has produced competitive racing in 2018 - for the remainder of the season.
Competition officials currently are considering an engine package that includes the use of a tapered spacer instead of a plate.

http://www.espn.com/jayski/cup/2018...ar-not-use-all-star-aero-package-again-season
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Well thats disappointing. I think they should have run it a couple more times to know what they would have and what changes could be made. But it is what it is.
 
yeah Indy for sure, can't mess that race up anymore than it is IMO. The arguement there would probably be that the race will be a single file parade like it always is and the package wouldn't help anyway.
 
StandOnIt said:
yeah Indy for sure, can't mess that race up anymore than it is IMO. The arguement there would probably be that the race will be a single file parade like it always is and the package wouldn't help anyway.
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If Indy was the same place on the schedule it was last year, I could see trying this package there. My argument for not trying it at Indy this year is the same I'd offer for any changes to the car, regardless of what they are: don't run experiments during the Chase cutoff. Not during the Chase either, for that matter.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
If Indy was the same place on the schedule it was last year, I could see trying this package there. My argument for not trying it at Indy this year is the same I'd offer for any changes to the car, regardless of what they are: don't run experiments during the Chase cutoff. Not during the Chase either, for that matter.
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Coming from a guy that hates the chase. :D IDK This is something that Nascar needs to be doing is testing different configurations for Indy IMO. It's a yawner. And that would include being proactive, coughing up the cash and testing independently if the teams are balking. Make it easier to bump draft, wider tires, something.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
If Indy was the same place on the schedule it was last year, I could see trying this package there. My argument for not trying it at Indy this year is the same I'd offer for any changes to the car, regardless of what they are: don't run experiments during the Chase cutoff. Not during the Chase either, for that matter.
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I dont know why that would matter. Everyone is on the same playing field. Charlotte Roval is a Prime example of mixing it up without a ton of practice time.
 
Good call for 2018. Changing the rules in the middle of the season in a panic has never been the correct course. Those who find the current racing boring, sleep-inducing, etc. and want something else can get some extra rest, wait, and hope next year's formula will suit their tastes better.
 
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Spotter22 said:
I dont know why that would matter. Everyone is on the same playing field. Charlotte Roval is a Prime example of mixing it up without a ton of practice time.
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could be another reason. The tapered spacer is another area to look at, there is more throttle response with that, and all three series are using those now. Could be tapered spacer along with the aero package that gets tested next
 
StandOnIt said:
could be another reason. The tapered spacer is another area to look at, there is more throttle response with that, and all three series are using those now. Could be tapered spacer along with the aero package that gets tested next
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Could be but one things for sure, whatever they change and run under race conditions will be for the first time.
 
StandOnIt said:
Coming from a guy that hates the chase. :D
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And hates plates too. :p
Spotter22 said:
I dont know why that would matter. Everyone is on the same playing field. Charlotte Roval is a Prime example of mixing it up without a ton of practice time.
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A valid point, but I suspect adapting to a new track is easier than adapting to a new car when the pressure's on.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
And hates plates too. :p

A valid point, but I suspect adapting to a new track is easier than adapting to a new car when the pressure's on.
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The teams are getting one day to test for the Roval with each team, and who knows what the weather will be, and nobody knows what is going to happen when they all are out there racing. I beg to differ.
 
I never originally commented on this thread. Since NASCAR has delayed using this package for the rest of the year, maybe now is a good time to jump in.

While the All-Star race was interesting and somewhat entertaining, the notion that some type of restrictor plates are needed to enhance competition shows how far off the mark NASCAR has come and how the fans that are left aren't satisfied unless every race is a barn burner. Not every race is going to be like that. Heck, not every football or basketball game is going to be a thriller. Trying to gin up gimmicks to create competition is just a notch below rasslin'.
 
MRM said:
I never originally commented on this thread. Since NASCAR has delayed using this package for the rest of the year, maybe now is a good time to jump in.

While the All-Star race was interesting and somewhat entertaining, the notion that some type of restrictor plates are needed to enhance competition shows how far off the mark NASCAR has come and how the fans that are left aren't satisfied unless every race is a barn burner. Not every race is going to be like that. Heck, not every football or basketball game is going to be a thriller. Trying to gin up gimmicks to create competition is just a notch below rasslin'.
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it's a common arguement. But looking at all the different forms of racing, they make changes to try to improve the competition almost every year. This is one of many. I think many have over reacted, but that's my opinion.
 
MRM said:
I never originally commented on this thread. Since NASCAR has delayed using this package for the rest of the year, maybe now is a good time to jump in.

While the All-Star race was interesting and somewhat entertaining, the notion that some type of restrictor plates are needed to enhance competition shows how far off the mark NASCAR has come and how the fans that are left aren't satisfied unless every race is a barn burner. Not every race is going to be like that. Heck, not every football or basketball game is going to be a thriller. Trying to gin up gimmicks to create competition is just a notch below rasslin'.
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I think it is certainly something other sports should look at. Maybe the NBA can place ballast in the shoes of LeBron and Russell Westbrook so they're not too explosive. The competition would be closer than ever if we could slow LBJ down.
 
Spotter22 said:
I dont know why that would matter. Everyone is on the same playing field. Charlotte Roval is a Prime example of mixing it up without a ton of practice time.
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Could be the RTA also, I believe the rule is 6 months lead time before any aero changes can be done. It would probably have to carry a huge margin to be able for that rule to be waived
 
StandOnIt said:
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What a load of crap. The only reason they would incur more expenses is because of what they would spend trying to gain an advantage on the other guy. It doesnt cost anymore putting on a different spoiler, a plate and air ducts that are given to them. Inmates running the asylum. Bill France would have said tough ****. See you Friday
 
Spotter22 said:
What a load of crap. The only reason they would incur more expenses is because of what they would spend trying to gain an advantage on the other guy. It doesnt cost anymore putting on a different spoiler, a plate and air ducts that are given to them. Inmates running the asylum. Bill France would have said tough sh!t. See you Friday
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Bill France would also not tolerate such terrible rules proposals.


And I don’t want to hear the “But Bill jr initiated plates in the 80’s”.. there is a big difference in slowing the cars down because they keep flying into fences and slowing them down to create a dramatic spectacle.
 
DUN24 said:
Bill France would also not tolerate such terrible rules proposals.


And I don’t want to hear the “But Bill I initiated plates in the 80’s”.. there is a big difference in slowing the cars down because they keep flying into fences and slowing them down to create a dramatic spectacle.
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Bill wasnt afraid to change the rules week to week until he liked it.
 
Spotter22 said:
Bill wasnt afraid to change the rules week to week until he liked it.
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Oh yeah for sure, nothing that would change the entire scope of the season(points) or the way the cars race(plates/ducts/whathaveyou), however.
 
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