Cup RACE thread --- Martinsville

Snappy D said:
Well our auto racing community or whole? Because if you’re a racing fan I would think you would know who Lewis Hamilton is, thought I read behind Ronaldo and Messi he had the most endorsement money in 19. That’s a shame if you’re even watching racing and don’t know who he is, missing out. Plus I would hope they have an idea who he his by him being at JG’s last race 5 years ago and being in his pit. But that’s not your point, your point is the points system. And since we will never get the old cup system back, I’ll meet you halfway....Chase For The Cup. Top 12 drivers, maybe a win and you’re in?
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Hey that sounds good to me :)

And I mean the whole racing community. Americans still know / are familiar with drivers.

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jaqua19 said:
Hey that sounds good to me :)

And I mean the whole racing community. Americans still know / are familiar with drivers.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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How would you do The Chase For The Cup again?
 
Weird how F1 has a “boring” traditional championship format and is still far and away the most respected and popular Motorsports series in the world. No gimmicks, and Mercedes has won SEVEN straight championships, 6 won by the same driver. The younger generation just plain and simply doesn’t like NASCAR, and explaining this convoluted format to the average joe does nothing but make this sport look like a bunch of dumb rednecks.

“Winning is what matters!”

*guy wins 9 races and almost breaks top 10 record

“iTs jUsT lIkE wHeN tHe uNdEfeAtEd pAtRiOtS lOsT tO tHe gIaNts!”

except Tom Brady can’t lose a super bowl to due to a piece of debris or tire failure, and the Cincinnati bengals can’t rush the field in overtime and tackle James White against the falcons. Not remotely comparable sports. Motorsports has always been about endurance, consistency, and winning, not rolling the dice at the Vegas lottery.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Aren't ALL sports entertainment? That's what they are for me. Some just happen to be more entertaining than others.
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Some people like soap operas and reality TV where the entertainment is manufactured and scripted, but it feigns as unscripted.

Some people enjoy live sporting events and shows, where what’s unfolding is unscripted and unpredictable.

Both entertaining, but not the same.

Theres only one rule:
source.gif
 
DaBiff1618 said:
Weird how F1 has a “boring” traditional championship format and is still far and away the most respected and popular Motorsports series in the world. No gimmicks, and Mercedes has won SEVEN straight championships, 6 won by the same driver. The younger generation just plain and simply doesn’t like NASCAR, and explaining this convoluted format to the average joe does nothing but make this sport look like a bunch of dumb rednecks.

“Winning is what matters!”

*guy wins 9 races and almost breaks top 10 record

“iTs jUsT lIkE wHeN tHe uNdEfeAtEd pAtRiOtS lOsT tO tHe gIaNts!”

except Tom Brady can’t lose a super bowl to due to a piece of debris or tire failure, and the Cincinnati bengals can’t rush the field in overtime and tackle James White against the falcons. Not remotely comparable sports. Motorsports has always been about endurance, consistency, and winning, not rolling the dice at the Vegas lottery.
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I know I'm gonna be in the minority.

I've tried everything in my power to get into F1. But the fact that one team wins every race and quite frankly the races aren't even competitive makes it atrocious for me to watch.

You can't pay me to watch an F1 race these days.

I'm not arguing that I love the playoff format, but rather that F1 isn't an excuse in my book to change it. I think F1 is the least competitive sport out there.
 
Snappy D said:
How would you do The Chase For The Cup again?
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It's in one of my previous post, but I'll try to keep it brief.

We can call it top 12 (I had said 10, but 12 is good)

Top 12 drivers in the stands make it. Each driver at base is separated by 5 points. And gets an additional 5 points per win. The regular season champion gets an additional 10 (or 15 maybe?) Points in addition to the wins bonus points.

Stage points are still scored by the end of each "stage", but we don't get stage break yellows. It's just a full cup race with points being awarded based on performance. Bring back the bonus points for leading the most laps. Since we would still have stage points, I would imagine the regular season Champion would have enough of a lead to have some sort of advantage, one that they could hopefully maintain, or at least keep, if they can maintain performance.

I'd imagine in such a system, that the regular season champ may win the title more often than not. but it would be competitive. And it would take a massive run, like Johnson in 2007 or Stewart in 2011 to win the title.

I feel that this would give up an exciting Chase for the cup.. it will bring that higher level of performance, make the championship maybe somewhat in question if someone lights it up, while also rewarding consistency and the regular season Champion.

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Spotter22 said:
There you have it folks, he wore a Tshirt to work and nobody knew who Chase was. Fold the tents
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The point was, where I work, in what has traditionally been a snapshot of the NASCAR fan demographic, 15 years ago, half the people there would have have known. If you don't see that as a problem for NASCAR, I think you are living in fantasy land.
 
no doubt about it, nascar will not go back to a season long points format like the Winston Cup days. So many fans have been brought into this sport with the overhyped chase/playoffs scenario being the way the championship is awarded. The backlash from these fans watching someone clinch the title with a race or two still remaining would be intense.

Sponsors and Networks love all this stuff. Doesn’t matter how ‘gimmicky’ it is.

I think this playoff stuff is perfect for auto racing video games. But not the real stuff on the race track.

But thats too bad and I know where the door is at, but I love racing so much I’ll continue going to races and watching races any chance I can.

Secretly I don’t believe the recent cup championships stand along side very well with cup championships won decades ago. I think it’s kind of a joke the way it’s done at the moment. But oh well
 
Formerjackman said:
The point was, where I work, in what has traditionally been a snapshot of the NASCAR fan demographic, 15 years ago, half the people there would have have known. If you don't see that as a problem for NASCAR, I think you are living in fantasy land.
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Yeah, dont care what you"think". Why the hell are you in this thread talking about attendance? I think we have one that must be 5 years old talking about the demise of NASCAR. Thing is, most of those posters are gone and NASCARs still here. Imagine that
 
The race next week in phoenix could be a pretty historical and emotional day for HMS. It will be the last race for Jimmie Johnson, could be the final win for Jimmie Johnson, will be the last race for the number 88...and could be the first championship for Chase Elliott and the number 9 team.
 
DaBiff1618 said:
“Winning is what matters!”

*guy wins 9 races and almost breaks top 10 record

“iTs jUsT lIkE wHeN tHe uNdEfeAtEd pAtRiOtS lOsT tO tHe gIaNts!”
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Also the part where they fixed the boredom of points racing by chopping the season into four different mincing little points battles.
 
The next step of ‘making the playoffs more exciting’ is crowing the champion at daytona or talladega.

It’s what they will probably do within the next 5 years
 
jaqua19 said:
It's in one of my previous post, but I'll try to keep it brief.

We can call it top 12 (I had said 10, but 12 is good)

Top 12 drivers in the stands make it. Each driver at base is separated by 5 points. And gets an additional 5 points per win. The regular season champion gets an additional 10 (or 15 maybe?) Points in addition to the wins bonus points.

Stage points are still scored by the end of each "stage", but we don't get stage break yellows. It's just a full cup race with points being awarded based on performance. Bring back the bonus points for leading the most laps. Since we would still have stage points, I would imagine the regular season Champion would have enough of a lead to have some sort of advantage, one that they could hopefully maintain, or at least keep, if they can maintain performance.

I'd imagine in such a system, that the regular season champ may win the title more often than not. but it would be competitive. And it would take a massive run, like Johnson in 2007 or Stewart in 2011 to win the title.

I feel that this would give up an exciting Chase for the cup.. it will bring that higher level of performance, make the championship maybe somewhat in question if someone lights it up, while also rewarding consistency and the regular season Champion.

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Don’t hate it. Outside of a season long points championship, I’d settle for this and I think it’d grow on me
 
beantownkid10 said:
Thanks.

You can imagine how frustrating it is for your favorite drivers breakthrough moment to be overshadowed by a bunch of fans complaining about the system in place. It's especially frustrating coming for an old school Jeff Gordon fan when the majority of the fanbase was happy he didn't win the 2 other championships he would have won if not for a Chase because back then you were either a Jeff Gordon fan or you hated JG. No in between. So to hear the complaints and the talk overshadow what Chase Elliott accomplished tonight is bittersweet to say the least.
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Don't let those fans decrease your enjoyment of the moment. Most of us know Chase drove his as-s off to get that win and he earned it and no one can ever take that moment away. Now hopefully he can seal the deal next week and make history in Phoenix.;)
 
Formerjackman said:
REALLY? Is THAT why the the live attendence is 30-40% of what it was and TV ratings are the lowest they have been in two decades? Exactly where ARE all these "new" fans at, because I sure as hell can't find them. I don't think I even personally KNOW a single person who has become a NASCAR fan since 2003. The ONLY NASCAR fans I know are a handful of diehards like myself that haven't given it up yet. There was a time at work where SEVERAL of us would get yelled at for talking NASCAR instead of working. When Chase won his first race at Watkins Glen a few years ago, I wore my Elliott shirt to work, and only two people even knew who he WAS. Our most popular driver........ All the under 40 guys I work with can't even name an active driver. AND, when I ask people who were rabid fans and now aren't why, the NUMBER ONE answer is, "I just got sick of all the changes and the goofy chase".
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I never paid much attention to ratings anyways. I think they're mostly fake and useless. Millions of people stream the race or follow it on Twitter.
 
With Phoenix being the last race, and Harvick having the best season we’ve witnessed for an individual driver in a long time, this was like having just an easy shot on the 8 ball remaining in order to win the game and doing something like chipping the cue ball. I’m not even a Harvick fan, but I think it’s grotesque that he won’t even get to compete for (much less win) the championship. Nine wins, twenty top-fives, finished in the top half of the field in all races bar Homestead... and he’s basically empty-handed. I know he said he’s taken harder gut punches than this, but man, this would be one hell of a gut punch to me if I was in his shoes.
 
ToyYoda said:
Wouldn’t mind seeing that at all and Harvick is definitely good enough at Phoenix to do it, but I don’t know if NASCAR would allow that to happen. I don’t think it’s just coincidence that a Championship race has never been won by anyone outside the Championship 4.
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I think it was 2017 at Homestead where non-playoff Larson was running his high line in 3rd place behind Kyle and Truex, he was the fastest car on the track that night, and had the chance pass them both (I believe imo) but decided to not get in the middle of their playoff battle for the win, Truex had not won his 1st Championship yet, and NASCAR was at big risk of looking gimmicky (like they didn't already).

So when we combine NASCAR's blatant willingness to do anything to legitimize their hogwash 1 race finale system to decide a 36 race champion... with non-playoff driver unwillingness to get involved, it becomes extremely difficult to overcome in race results. Whether it's through inspection lenience, pit road penalty, or yellow flag manipulation. Have to beat all cars and nascar at the same time.

What they haven't had happen yet, is have a fired up regular season champion with a 9 win season star of the sport (that isn't crazy about their system miss yet), I hope Harvick leads every lap of Phoenix for win #10 and just drops the hammer on their whole deal, shifting true achievement onto historically great full season numbers, season wins, and total career race wins.
 
Turtle84 said:
I think it was 2017 at Homestead where non-playoff Larson was running his high line in 3rd place behind Kyle and Truex, he was the fastest car on the track that night, and had the chance pass them both (I believe imo) but decided to not get in the middle of their playoff battle for the win, Truex had not won his 1st Championship yet, and NASCAR was at big risk of looking gimmicky (like they didn't already).

So when we combine NASCAR's blatant willingness to do anything to legitimize their hogwash 1 race finale system to decide a 36 race champion... with non-playoff driver unwillingness to get involved, it becomes extremely difficult to overcome in race results. Whether it's through inspection lenience, pit road penalty, or yellow flag manipulation. Have to beat all cars and nascar at the same time.

What they haven't had happen yet, is have a fired up regular season champion with a 9 win season star of the sport (that isn't crazy about their system miss yet), I hope Harvick leads every lap of Phoenix for win #10 and just drops the hammer on their whole deal, shifting true achievement onto historically great full season numbers, season wins, and total career race wins.
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If Harvick takes advantage of a situation where he is likely going to have a great car - on top of being an upper-class driver - and trumps the field at Phoenix, that right there would speak to me more than any of the “pseudo-tough guy” antics I guess he’s pulled off in the past. Now that you’ve said it, I hope he does it!
 
It's laughable that Harvick won't even be in contention for the championship because of two mediocre races despite dominating the whole season.
NASCAR has lost so many fans with the stupid playoff system and still somehow hangs on to it. I hope someone will win a Matt Crafton 2019-like championship in Cup at some point so NASCAR can't defend the playoffs anymore.
 
I have hated the chase/playoffs since day one and still do. It never bothered me when the championship was decided early because that's when the drivers could race and let it all hang out for the rest of the season. Also, they were still fighting for a top 10 position. Teams below the 10th position still had a chance to break in.
 
Spotter22 said:
Yeah, dont care what you"think". Why the hell are you in this thread talking about attendance? I think we have one that must be 5 years old talking about the demise of NASCAR. Thing is, most of those posters are gone and NASCARs still here. Imagine that
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Yeah, we know, you're one of two people here that think that your opinion is the ONLY one that counts. I have never suggested NASCAR is going anywhere, just pointing out that it is a shell of its former self, and hasn't been less relevant to the public at large since probably the early 90's. There is a REASON only two companies are willing to sponsor a car for the whole season, there is a REASON it took four companies to take over the title sponsorship of the series, and at less money than NASCAR had gotten in the past, there is a REASON why race tracks have had to tear out half their seats, and there is a reason the TV networks are content to let most of the races languish on channels a lot of people don't even have. That reason is a hell of lot less people care about NASCAR than did 10 years ago, 15 years ago or 20 years ago. Twenty years ago, our most popular drivers were known entities to people that wouldn't know a stock car from an Indy car. My grandmother become became a Jeff Gordon fan at age 84 after never watching a race in her life. Now, I wear a tee shirt of the sport's most popular driver, and nobody knows who it is. I'm sorry, but that's a problem, whether you want to face it or not. Go take a look at the NHRA if you want to see how bad it can get.
 
donthaveanickname said:
It's laughable that Harvick won't even be in contention for the championship because of two mediocre races despite dominating the whole season.
NASCAR has lost so many fans with the stupid playoff system and still somehow hangs on to it. I hope someone will win a Matt Crafton 2019-like championship in Cup at some point so NASCAR can't defend the playoffs anymore.
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Its a terrible way to crown a champion in this sport. But it’s here to stay. No way they could ever strip away the entertainment/drama of having a chase/playoff at the end of the season. There’s a generation of fans who have been raised on the NASCAR chase/playoffs. NASCAR cannot afford to run them off, so I see both sides...

The only thing we could hope for is that NASCAR lands on some sort of ‘happy medium’ with some new format.

I think the closest they were was probably the first two or three versions of the chase for the cup. It at-least allowed the dominant cars to still be ranked ahead of competitors, and just simply became of 10 race mini season. For the sake of having a gimmick, it was probably the best version.

I don’t know where the sanctioning body goes from here though. They won’t take steps backwards. That just doesn’t happen often. So I wonder what they’ll try as the next format...

the toothpaste is out of the tube. How do we get some of it back in? Lol
 
NASCAR seeing the “championship 4” contending drivers separated by 1 point each in the final laps of the semi-final race is exactly what they want to see. It doesn’t matter how ridiculous the process is to get to that result, that was their goal and they are over the moon about it.
 
JGR_20 said:
Its a terrible way to crown a champion in this sport. But it’s here to stay. No way they could ever strip away the entertainment/drama of having a chase/playoff at the end of the season. There’s a generation of fans who have been raised on the NASCAR chase/playoffs. NASCAR cannot afford to run them off, so I see both sides...

The only thing we could hope for is that NASCAR lands on some sort of ‘happy medium’ with some new format.

I think the closest they were was probably the first two or three versions of the chase for the cup. It at-least allowed the dominant cars to still be ranked ahead of competitors, and just simply became of 10 race mini season. For the sake of having a gimmick, it was probably the best version.

I don’t know where the sanctioning body goes from here though. They won’t take steps backwards. That just doesn’t happen often. So I wonder what they’ll try as the next format...

the toothpaste is out of the tube. How do we get some of it back in? Lol
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The most obvious change (short of scrapping playoffs entirely, which they're too stubborn to do) is to grant the regular season champ an automatic slot in the final. That will in theory reward someone dominant like the 4 was this year. UNTIL... we have a year with more parity and regular season champ has like 3 or 4 wins and second place is right at their heels with either same amount of wins or one less.

As angry as it made most fans that Harvick got ousted, I'd argue that NASCAR brass are secretly ecstatic. It helps them market the whole "it doesn't matter how good you've been, nObOdY iS SaFe!!!!!!! *rolls eyes*
 
Turtle84 said:
I think it was 2017 at Homestead where non-playoff Larson was running his high line in 3rd place behind Kyle and Truex, he was the fastest car on the track that night, and had the chance pass them both (I believe imo) but decided to not get in the middle of their playoff battle for the win, Truex had not won his 1st Championship yet, and NASCAR was at big risk of looking gimmicky (like they didn't already).

So when we combine NASCAR's blatant willingness to do anything to legitimize their hogwash 1 race finale system to decide a 36 race champion... with non-playoff driver unwillingness to get involved, it becomes extremely difficult to overcome in race results. Whether it's through inspection lenience, pit road penalty, or yellow flag manipulation. Have to beat all cars and nascar at the same time.

What they haven't had happen yet, is have a fired up regular season champion with a 9 win season star of the sport (that isn't crazy about their system miss yet), I hope Harvick leads every lap of Phoenix for win #10 and just drops the hammer on their whole deal, shifting true achievement onto historically great full season numbers, season wins, and total career race wins.
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It would be like 2014.

Harvick will give up the race at the end to prove the point. His interview wasn't as passive aggressive as others are making it out to be.

Make no mistake, the Champion is winning that race.

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Anyone else think that we get a new format with the gen 7 car?

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jaqua19 said:
Anyone else think that we get a new format with the gen 7 car?
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I definitely believe there will be another version to introduce in the coming seasons. Who knows how large changes could be though.

Not to be funny, But I truly wonder if there’s a day the championship four race is held at Daytona or Talladega... most likely Daytona of those two choices...

History with the sanctioning body suggests that any new format changes will be more dramatic than the previous format...

so ending the playoffs in a plate race is one way to go that direction
 
JGR_20 said:
Its a terrible way to crown a champion in this sport. But it’s here to stay. No way they could ever strip away the entertainment/drama of having a chase/playoff at the end of the season. There’s a generation of fans who have been raised on the NASCAR chase/playoffs. NASCAR cannot afford to run them off, so I see both sides...

The only thing we could hope for is that NASCAR lands on some sort of ‘happy medium’ with some new format.

I think the closest they were was probably the first two or three versions of the chase for the cup. It at-least allowed the dominant cars to still be ranked ahead of competitors, and just simply became of 10 race mini season. For the sake of having a gimmick, it was probably the best version.

I don’t know where the sanctioning body goes from here though. They won’t take steps backwards. That just doesn’t happen often. So I wonder what they’ll try as the next format...

the toothpaste is out of the tube. How do we get some of it back in? Lol
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I’d settle for a revamped version of the “Chase For The Cup” format at this point. It scares me beyond reason what they’ll think of next or better yet what the networks will “suggest” NASCAR implement.
 
Formerjackman said:
Yeah, we know, you're one of two people here that think that your opinion is the ONLY one that counts. I have never suggested NASCAR is going anywhere, just pointing out that it is a shell of its former self, and hasn't been less relevant to the public at large since probably the early 90's. There is a REASON only two companies are willing to sponsor a car for the whole season, there is a REASON it took four companies to take over the title sponsorship of the series, and at less money than NASCAR had gotten in the past, there is a REASON why race tracks have had to tear out half their seats, and there is a reason the TV networks are content to let most of the races languish on channels a lot of people don't even have. That reason is a hell of lot less people care about NASCAR than did 10 years ago, 15 years ago or 20 years ago. Twenty years ago, our most popular drivers were known entities to people that wouldn't know a stock car from an Indy car. My grandmother become became a Jeff Gordon fan at age 84 after never watching a race in her life. Now, I wear a tee shirt of the sport's most popular driver, and nobody knows who it is. I'm sorry, but that's a problem, whether you want to face it or not. Go take a look at the NHRA if you want to see how bad it can get.
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You know, in my view it seems you get picked on a bit here but I agree with most of your posts and appreciate the love an passion for the sport. My grandmother never watched a race too and she knew who Dale Earnhardt Jr was in 2001, blew me away. I also remember Jeff Gordon’s name being a lyric in a Nelly song, Jeff Gordon and Mark Martin being on the cover of TV guide (I’m dating myself here), NASCAR actually leading Sports Center on some days, and Jeff Gordon hosting SNL or Regis/Kathy (again dating myself). I have zero belief NASCAR is going away or zero desire to have it collapse, it’s probably my 3rd favorite sport to watch and my favorite form of auto racing. It’s actually my 2nd favorite sport to attend behind the NBA, I love going to races there’s nothing like a race live. Saying that, I don’t think your overtly wrong in your observations, there are some problems I would address, it’ll be really interesting to see what happens in the next TV negotiations in terms of revenue. If NASCAR gets less money than now, that’s not good right?
 
Formerjackman said:
Yeah, we know, you're one of two people here that think that your opinion is the ONLY one that counts. I have never suggested NASCAR is going anywhere, just pointing out that it is a shell of its former self, and hasn't been less relevant to the public at large since probably the early 90's. There is a REASON only two companies are willing to sponsor a car for the whole season, there is a REASON it took four companies to take over the title sponsorship of the series, and at less money than NASCAR had gotten in the past, there is a REASON why race tracks have had to tear out half their seats, and there is a reason the TV networks are content to let most of the races languish on channels a lot of people don't even have. That reason is a hell of lot less people care about NASCAR than did 10 years ago, 15 years ago or 20 years ago. Twenty years ago, our most popular drivers were known entities to people that wouldn't know a stock car from an Indy car. My grandmother become became a Jeff Gordon fan at age 84 after never watching a race in her life. Now, I wear a tee shirt of the sport's most popular driver, and nobody knows who it is. I'm sorry, but that's a problem, whether you want to face it or not. Go take a look at the NHRA if you want to see how bad it can get.
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I have seen what you are saying in the last part of your post so many times out on the road. Most of the haulers I have driven for the past 20+ years have had a wrap with a full size picture of either a funny car or a top fuel dragster on the side of the trailer like in my avatar and the words Nitro Funny Car or Top Fuel Dragster and NHRA somewhere on the sides and rear door of the trailer. But I can't hardly believe how many people from the age of teens to 80's have came up to me at a fuel stop, rest area, hotel or restaurant some where and ask me if I had a NASCAR car inside and do we race against John Force. They know the name NASCAR and John Force but they don't have a clue what a NASCAR looks like or what series John Force races in.
 
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