Illegal communication between teams?

Bucky Badger said:
well, in the start of the video the they say "help in the future with whatever"
Sounds like nothing was promised...It was Gilliand making demands
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Gilliland sounded hesitant and a little upset with the whole thing. You could tell he didn't want to give up any spots, asking how many other cars there were on his lap besides the #22. The #38 crew chief sounds like he'd had discussions before with Penske and has asked for specific compensation in case of something like this.
 
Also, do you guys realize how that sounds to casual fans -- "Let me pass and I'll give you X"
FenderBumper said:
Are you drunk? We're talking about what nascar can prove, remember?
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No, we aren't. We are talking about what actually happened.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Gilliland sounded hesitant and a little upset with the whole thing. You could tell he didn't want to give up any spots, asking how many other cars there were on his lap besides the #22. The #38 crew chief sounds like he'd had discussions before with Penske and has asked for specific compensation in case of something like this.
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Go ahead and prove it tho
 
Who made the offer? Was it Penske himself? What were the terms? What specific compensation was offered?
 
Brent said:
Dang! Everyone is cheating! Better check Danica's radio to make sure she wasn't communicating with anyone, trying to sneak her way in the chase!
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We at NASCAR announce Danica awarded with a gazillion, trillion points.

dr-evil-gazillion-trillion-450x362.jpg
 
FenderBumper said:
Are you drunk? We're talking about what nascar can prove, remember?
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From that communication? We can prove that someone from the #22 team told the #38 team they would give them something if the #38 gave the #22 a spot on the track.

We can prove that Travis Geisler and Roger Penske were involved.

We can prove that both the #22 and the #38 are Fords, who have been infamous in giving out team orders.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Gilliland sounded hesitant and a little upset with the whole thing. You could tell he didn't want to give up any spots, asking how many other cars there were on his lap besides the #22. The #38 crew chief sounds like he'd had discussions before with Penske and has asked for specific compensation in case of something like this.
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I took it to mean the teams had discussions about getting something from Penske, and Penske said no. Now was Daves chance to get it. Who knows.

Then the yellow came out, the field closed up, and they raced for that spot. Who's to say different?

I would be shocked if nascar does anything, because this stuff happens every day. HMS does it. JGR does it. He got a spot. Big deal.
 
FenderBumper said:
I took it to mean the teams had discussions about getting something from Penske, and Penske said no. Now was Daves chance to get it. Who knows.

Then the yellow came out, the field closed up, and they raced for that spot. Who's to say different?

I would be shocked if nascar does anything, because this stuff happens every day. HMS does it. JGR does it. He got a spot. Big deal.
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That is cause you are being blatantly obtuse.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Gilliland sounded hesitant and a little upset with the whole thing. You could tell he didn't want to give up any spots, asking how many other cars there were on his lap besides the #22. The #38 crew chief sounds like he'd had discussions before with Penske and has asked for specific compensation in case of something like this.
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Indeed.

You could hear it in his voice when he said, I dont know that I cant back off that far. He was hesitant but he's just a pawn so he'll lick the entire track with his bare tongue if that is what is asked of him.
 
beantownkid10 said:
From that communication? We can prove that someone from the #22 team told the #38 team they would give them something if the #38 gave the #22 a spot on the track.

We can prove that Travis Geisler and Roger Penske were involved.

We can prove that both the #22 and the #38 are Fords, who have been infamous in giving out team orders.
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You give us a spot on the track we give you one. Would that be wrong?
 
beantownkid10 said:
From that communication? We can prove that someone from the #22 team told the #38 team they would give them something if the #38 gave the #22 a spot on the track.

We can prove that Travis Geisler and Roger Penske were involved.

We can prove that both the #22 and the #38 are Fords, who have been infamous in giving out team orders.
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Well, if I could here that audio, I would be convinced, but I think you're assuming facts not in evidence. :)
 
reck said:
Indeed.

You could hear it in his voice when he said, I dont know that I cant back off that far. He was hesitant but he's just a pawn so he'll lick the entire track with his bare tongue if that is what is asked of him.
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...then the yellow came out and it was all moot. Joey had the inside and blew by him.

nascar may need to check the audio before that yellow came out that got Jeff back on the lead lap.
 
FenderBumper said:
Then the yellow came out, the field closed up, and they raced for that spot. Who's to say different?
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Go listen to that radio again. Gilliland is heard saying how Joey was "really struggling here" on the restart.

He couldn't even pass him straight up jack.
 
FenderBumper said:
Well, if I could here that audio, I would be convinced, but I think you're assuming facts not in evidence. :)
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No, I'm assuming, like most everyone else in this sport....that the #38 team has better things to do than make up radio conversations saying they were asked to give up a spot.

Christ, that spot cost the #38 team $10,000. I don't think they were just gonna give that up for fun.
 
Pretty powerful evidence.
It's one thing to do something to help a teammate get into the chase by trickery. But for a team to accept what is basically a bribe from another team, and tell your driver to lay down and let another car pass so they can make the chase, is far worse than what MWR did. IMO

nascar is in a hell of a fix. They're going to look pretty bad if they allow Logano to remain in the chase after what they did to Truex.
 
beantownkid10 said:
No, I'm assuming, like most everyone else in this sport....that the #38 team has better things to do than make up radio conversations saying they were asked to give up a spot.

Christ, that spot cost the #38 team $10,000. I don't think they were just gonna give that up for fun.
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So the compensation had to be worth more than $10k to make it worthwhile.
 
StoneTown said:
So the compensation had to be worth more than $10k to make it worthwhile.
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For a small team like that, you better believe it. This isn't just fantasy stuff here. These guys are playing in reality where lots of money is at stake.
 
FenderBumper said:
I took it to mean the teams had discussions about getting something from Penske, and Penske said no. Now was Daves chance to get it. Who knows.
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That's possible. I'm sure it's something NASCAR's digging into.
FenderBumper said:
Then the yellow came out, the field closed up, and they raced for that spot. Who's to say different?
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The whole final sequence indicates to me that Gilliland backed off for Logano. When they're side-by-side the spotter says that the #22 is struggling badly and then the next thing you see is the #38 dropping straight out of the picture.
 
reck said:
Go listen to that radio again. Gilliland is heard saying how Joey was "really struggling here" on the restart.

He couldn't even pass him straight up jack.
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Again, prove it. There isn't enough there. Besides, Logano didn't need that point. All Penske has to do is say we asked for a favor and they guy asked for compensation. The yellow came out, and we let it go. We're not sure what they did. If nascar said there wasn't enough evidence to punish Bowyer, how does this chatter get Logano out of the chase?
 
FLRacingFan said:
That's possible. I'm sure it's something NASCAR's digging into.

The whole final sequence indicates to me that Gilliland backed off for Logano. When they're side-by-side the spotter says that the #22 is struggling badly and then the next thing you see is the #38 dropping straight out of the picture.
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The telemetry proves that Gilliland tanked hard just like Vickers did.
 
beantownkid10 said:
For a small team like that, you better believe it. This isn't just fantasy stuff here. These guys are playing in reality where lots of money is at stake.
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I wonder what could be offered? Access to better parts or diagnostic/testing equipment? The audio didn't sound like straight cash was being offered, but something a crew chief would want from a richer, better funded garage. This is all fascinating.
 
FLRacingFan said:
That's possible. I'm sure it's something NASCAR's digging into.

The whole final sequence indicates to me that Gilliland backed off for Logano. When they're side-by-side the spotter says that the #22 is struggling badly and then the next thing you see is the #38 dropping straight out of the picture.
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The 38 struggles badly every race. I'm just saying nothing is even close to conclusive. Maybe Gilliland just got beat, but still wants something so he says he lifted.
 
FenderBumper said:
Again, prove it. There isn't enough there. Besides, Logano didn't need that point. All Penske has to do is say we asked for a favor and they guy asked for compensation. The yellow came out, and we let it go. We're not sure what they did. If nascar said there wasn't enough evidence to punish Bowyer, how does this chatter get Logano out of the chase?
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Because when NASCAR asks the #38 spotter what the hell he was talking about, he isn't going to throw his team under the bus and risk costing them a **** ton of money and say that he was just trying to milk money out of the Penske team.
 
StoneTown said:
I wonder what could be offered? Access to better parts or diagnostic/testing equipment? The audio didn't sound like straight cash was being offered, but something a crew chief would want from a richer, better funded garage. This is all fascinating.
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Perhaps setups. Teams share those all the time.
 
FenderBumper said:
Again, prove it. There isn't enough there. Besides, Logano didn't need that point. All Penske has to do is say we asked for a favor and they guy asked for compensation. The yellow came out, and we let it go. We're not sure what they did. If nascar said there wasn't enough evidence to punish Bowyer, how does this chatter get Logano out of the chase?
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Its intent that matters. None cares that he didn't actually needed that point. Fact is, they asked and he recieved.

Prove it? Its on that vid buck posted. Gilliland said it clear as day.
 
beantownkid10 said:
Because when NASCAR asks the #38 spotter what the hell he was talking about, he isn't going to throw his team under the bus and risk costing them a **** ton of money and say that he was just trying to milk money out of the Penske team.
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Everyone will probably stay quiet. Then nascar has nothing.
 
reck said:
Its intent that matters. None cares that he didn't actually needed that point. Fact is, they asked and he recieved.

Prove it? Its on that vid buck posted. Gilliland said it clear as day.
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Exactly!

I hope nascar punishes Gilliland for asking for compensation.

You win.
 
Nascar will have to do something once all the sport networks take off with this. Fox has the video/audio, nbc sports was tweeting earlier, and I am sure sportscenter will run with this.

This does not look good at all. Could you imagine if their was audio of a NFL team manager telling a coach and qb to throw a game because another team needed it to make the playoffs, and the coach saying compensation was previously discussed. That would be the store of the year for any other sport.
 
FenderBumper said:
Everyone will probably stay quiet. Then nascar has nothing.
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The audio is right there. You really are slow.

That audio right there is about 10 levels above nothing.

The audio proves one of two things: either Penske bought a spot with hopes of making the top 10 OR the #38 team was soliciting a bribe by trying to manipulate the results for something of value.

Both are huge no-nos. You really think the #38 team will take the monetary hit for Penske? Can they even afford to?
 
Supposedly Danica wanted by Gilliland as well, but couldn't catch him.
 
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