Kasey Kahne

reck said:
I already did but let me refresh your memory..

Kasey VS Gordon

2012-2013

Discouting 2014 to give you a a semblance of a chance.
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Kahne 2012-2013
4 Wins
23 top 5s
33 top 10s
4 poles
959 laps led
Overall standings 4th and 12th
Avr fn 13.1 and 16.2

Gordon 2012-2013
3 Wins
19 top 5s
35 top 10s
4 poles
1,002 laps led
Overall standings 10th and 6th
Avr fn 12.9 (Exactly for both years)
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Pretty much on par but Gordon clearly has the edge in every year since Kasey joined. I'm sorry to tell you but a single win doesn't make him second best at the organization. There is alot more that goes into it, like say for example...being a contender which Gordon has been doing while Kahne always fades and never being a threat.

Also want to point out the penalty Gordon took back in 2012 that saw him dropped from 6th to 11th in points for the Phoenix fiasco.
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Based on those numbers alone, I would give a KK a slight edge, for the two years, based on the one win advantage.
 
ramfan9 said:
I really don't understand why you just "throw out" the JGR years. That is good equipment and Matt Kenseth jumped into that ride and won 7 races last year. I will give you this tough...there is no question Joey has the driving chops. I feel like he was a victim of being rushed up too early in his career and struggled to meet expectations. He is in a good situation now so we will see what he can do. But until he proves it and actually wins multiple races in a year and/or competes for a champuionship the jury is still out.
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LOL U answered ur own question... Not necessarily throw them out but its clear he is not the same driver that drove the 20 at 18 years old.

ramfan9 said:
This just in...Kasey out performed Joey in practice (Kasey 4th and Joey 17th) so does that mean Kasey is better than Joey now? LOL!!! In all seriousness though this is the FIRST time all year Kasey has unloaded fast. Could be trouble. 4th overall and 3rd best 10 lap average.
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This just in... LOL Final practice is more important... u should probably wait until that to brag on practice...

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Not that practice really is a big deal.. but if u want to go that route :p lol I had to... its too ironic

Joey was 17th in the first practice at Texas too ;)

Don't get me wrong.. I like Kasey and hope he does well .. this is jus for the sake of conversation... good luck this weekend :)
 
SlicedBread22 said:
The point is all of Joeys wins he made happen with force. Kasey's lucky to get a good pit stop and gain a few second lead for a win... if he gets caught... he usually gets 2nd.
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So I guess we're ignoring when he blew past Gordon at pocono last year :rolleyes:
 
FLRacingFan said:
Speculation. Axalta signed an extension last year through 2016, so it reasons that Gordon will stay that long as well. Chase isn't going to spend three years in Nationwide. The #5 team is his after 2015.
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Update for you.....I read today (although I cannot find a direct quote so it's not proven) that Gordon was recently asked if he planned on racing through 2016 since the sponsor signed on that long and he said that he has NEVER planned on racing well into his 40's and that the sponsor signed with the team and not the driver. I truly hope Gordon announces his retirment next season and Hendrick announces that Chase will be in the 24 (hopefully changing to 9 if RPM cooperates and takes another number) and he signs Kasey to an extension at the same time. It would be really cool to see Kasey have the opportunity to be in a mentor role for Chase the same way Bill did for Kasey. If not, as a Kahne and Chase fan I am not worried at all. Kasey would look great in a 4th JGR car that is rumored to be coming in the next few years. I would still love to see them be teammates though. And also, hats off to Kasey for being a class act. All this talk about Chase taking his ride and he was very quick to Tweet congratulations to Chase for his win at Darlington.
 
ramfan9 said:
Look, I am going to be as clear as possible on this. I am not saying Kasey is better than Gordon or anyone eslse. My entire POINT has been that his numbers are similar to almost any driver out there other than Jimmie Johnson. The only reason I am quick to defend him is because I am tired of him being everyone's favorite whipping boy. People have said they are tired of the "Kahne hype." Really? What "hype?" I hardly see him in any commercials anymore and they hardly talk about him during the race. Who is over hyping him? Then people say he has no killer instinct. OK, how about the bold outside pass on Gordon at Pocono last year? No killer instinct there? He was in the process of making an amazing pass on Kyle Busch at Darlington when he got dumped. He was on it that day as far as so called "killer instinct." I also love how people ripped him for not dumping Kenseth to win the night race at Bristol but I will guarantee that had he wrecked Kenseth people would have ripped him for that.
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I could not agree more with this. You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. This is exactly how I felt last year when everyone was dissing Kasey after his battles with Kenseth.

ramfan9 said:
And let me also spell it out for you because you obviously don't understand.....consistency means N-O-T-H-I-N-G anymore. Wins are what coounts. This new formart probably plays into Kasey's hands if things play out the way they normally do for him but if not and he has his first winless year since 2007 (which BTW Gordon and Jr have had plenty of those) people like you will be calling for his head at HMS even though (again) the only one out performing him clearly is Johnson who by amazing coincidence happens to be out performing everyone.
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I agree that consistency doesn't matter much right now, in 2014, but it certainly mattered more in 2012 and 2013, which are the two years we have been discussing for the most part. Mind you, it didn't matter as much as it probably should have because of the Chase, but it was still more important than it is this year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that because consistency doesn't matter all that much today, it's not a valid metric to use to evaluate a driver's performance in previous years. If that's what you're getting at, I disagree.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
I could not agree more with this. You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. This is exactly how I felt last year when everyone was dissing Kasey after his battles with Kenseth.


I agree that consistency doesn't matter much right now, in 2014, but it certainly mattered more in 2012 and 2013, which are the two years we have been discussing for the most part. Mind you, it didn't matter as much as it probably should have because of the Chase, but it was still more important than it is this year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that because consistency doesn't matter all that much today, it's not a valid metric to use to evaluate a driver's performance in previous years. If that's what you're getting at, I disagree.
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No...That's not what I am saying. I personally believe consitency is still important because it can still get you in The Chse if there are less than 16 different winners which is likely. What I am saying is that a team like Kasey's can have a bad stretch like they are now and it means litte if they get hot later and grab a few wins. In the past his slow starts really killed his season and made it hard to recover for the Chase. I am just saying that may not be the case anymore.

I will say though that NASCAR may have overlooked that in the grand scheme of things the regular season points now mean very little if anything. I hope they change the Chase field to the 12 drivers highest in the points that are in the top 25 with a win and then the next highest 4 in points after that. That way there is still a guaranteed reward to being consistent and high in points.
 
ramfan9 said:
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!! "Clearly on Par" but Gordon has the "edge." HOW?????? Kasey has more wins, and more tops 5's and he also has a top 5 in the points that Gordon lacks. Gordon may have a few more laps lad and a couple more top 10's but I really don't see how you can use that to justify having an "edge" when Kasey has more wins and tops 5's. Thanks for making my point for me.

Look, I am going to be as clear as possible on this. I am not saying Kasey is better than Gordon or anyone eslse. My entire POINT has been that his numbers are similar to almost any driver out there other than Jimmie Johnson. The only reason I am quick to defend him is because I am tired of him being everyone's favorite whipping boy. People have said they are tired of the "Kahne hype." Really? What "hype?" I hardly see him in any commercials anymore and they hardly talk about him during the race. Who is over hyping him? Then people say he has no killer instinct. OK, how about the bold outside pass on Gordon at Pocono last year? No killer instinct there? He was in the process of making an amazing pass on Kyle Busch at Darlington when he got dumped. He was on it that day as far as so called "killer instinct." I also love how people ripped him for not dumping Kenseth to win the night race at Bristol but I will guarantee that had he wrecked Kenseth people would have ripped him for that. And let me also spell it out for you because you obviously don't understand.....consistency means N-O-T-H-I-N-G anymore. Wins are what coounts. This new formart probably plays into Kasey's hands if things play out the way they normally do for him but if not and he has his first winless year since 2007 (which BTW Gordon and Jr have had plenty of those) people like you will be calling for his head at HMS even though (again) the only one out performing him clearly is Johnson who by amazing coincidence happens to be out performing everyone.
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ramfan9 said:
I really don't understand your thought process on how important points finishes are. Points are so dependant on luck and while you may be right about Jr. and Gordon "out pointing" Kasey Jeff Gordon will go down as one of the greatest of all time so why is there shame in Kasey getting beat by him when frankly he beats a lot of people. As for Jr, you should take a closer look because the numbers are pretty close. Yes Jr beat Kasey in the points every year from 2004-2008 but let's be real...Kasey was in crap equipment ALL of those years and since then Kasey has beat Jr in the points 3 out of 5 years. Also, even WITH Kasey in inferior equipment the majority of his career his average points finish is 13.7 and Jr is a WHOPPING ***ONE**** position better at 12.7 even WITH being in much better equipment his entire career.
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Did not read.gif
 
I REALLY can't believe that I just spent my time reading a thread that turned into which is better, Gordon or Kahne.....WOW
 
Ram has tried to make his case that Kahne is better than 3 different driver...to no avail. Ouch.

Who's next? Kahne is better than Tony Stewart? Or maybe Jimmie himself since he sucked this race.
 
reck said:
Ram has tried to make his case that Kahne is better than 3 different driver...to no avail. Ouch.

Who's next? Kahne is better than Tony Stewart? Or maybe Jimmie himself since he sucked this race.
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You clearly lack reading comprehension. I have not tried to make a case that Kasey is BETTER than anyone. I have simply pointed out that his performance does not deserve the criticism it gets at times and that his issues are not all because of the driver.....last night being a PERFECT example of that. You have done done nothing but throw out stats that made my point for me since his numbers are slightly better than Jr's and Gordon's since coming to HMS unless you value top 10's and laps led over wins and top 5's. And then you talked about how much better Jr. does in the points and I came back to inform you that even though Jr. has been in far superior equipment to Kasey most of his career his average points finish is only one position better than Kasey's (12.7 - 13.7) and Kasey has beat him in the points 3 out of the last 5 years now that the equipment is equal. Then you come back with your "DIDN'T READ" post which is cool....if someone made a fool out of me I'd probably resort to acting like a 5 year old too. Maybe you should look for some numbers that actually make your argument...wait there are none "reckie."
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Seems like an appropriate time to revisit this topic ;) lol
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LOL.....Good run for Joey and congrats to him on the win. I am rooting for all the drivers who have already one this year so maybe points will get you in the Chase in case Kasey can't pull one out this year so I was glad that a driver with a win already got another.

That being said though I have to admit that at times I am left in disbelief of the way the race just works out perfectly for some drivers. Brad K had fallen WAY off that last long run and got the cautions he needed and was in the right line on the restarts to suddenly be competing for a win when he was almost in danger of going a lap down earlier. I am not taking anything away from Joey because a win is a win is a win but had the last caution not come out he would not have won AND he should give a ton of credit to his teammate for that one since Brad basically made it his mission to make sure Joey won once he realized he was not going to.

As for Kasey...that night was about par for the course...solid top 5-10 run and with the way the race ended he COULD have been right there since he and Joey were running together toward the back of the top 10 that last long run and what happens? Has to pit a second time for a missing lug nut....I will be curious to see how many think that was Kasey's fault since all his bad luck seems to be his fault in some people's eyes. His car was better that where they ran most of the night as far as lap times but they kept having horrible pits stops and losing a ton of positions. It was the first time I have ever heard Kenny get on the crew about slow stops. I did not have the scanner on for the missing lug though (had turned it down because some company showed yo for a night cap) and I'd be really curious to hear how that went. Kasey must have been PISSED. Coming back to finish 14th was not bad all things considered but they simply cannot afford to make mistakes like that.
 
ramfan9 said:
LOL.....Good run for Joey and congrats to him on the win. I am rooting for all the drivers who have already one this year so maybe points will get you in the Chase in case Kasey can't pull one out this year so I was glad that a driver with a win already got another.

That being said though I have to admit that at times I am left in disbelief of the way the race just works out perfectly for some drivers. Brad K had fallen WAY off that last long run and got the cautions he needed and was in the right line on the restarts to suddenly be competing for a win when he was almost in danger of going a lap down earlier. I am not taking anything away from Joey because a win is a win is a win but had the last caution not come out he would not have won AND he should give a ton of credit to his teammate for that one since Brad basically made it his mission to make sure Joey won once he realized he was not going to.

As for Kasey...that night was about par for the course...solid top 5-10 run and with the way the race ended he COULD have been right there since he and Joey were running together toward the back of the top 10 that last long run and what happens? Has to pit a second time for a missing lug nut....I will be curious to see how many think that was Kasey's fault since all his bad luck seems to be his fault in some people's eyes. His car was better that where they ran most of the night as far as lap times but they kept having horrible pits stops and losing a ton of positions. It was the first time I have ever heard Kenny get on the crew about slow stops. I did not have the scanner on for the missing lug though (had turned it down because some company showed yo for a night cap) and I'd be really curious to hear how that went. Kasey must have been PISSED. Coming back to finish 14th was not bad all things considered but they simply cannot afford to make mistakes like that.
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It is crazy the way things happen sometimes... but u have to be there to take advantage... Im just bustin ur balls anyway Im just pumped. Also Im not sure Brad did anything to help Joey I think he just ran to hard out of 2 and got sideways opening the door... Im still nor sure why Kenseth didn't go down to block Joey.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
It is crazy the way things happen sometimes... but u have to be there to take advantage... Im just bustin ur balls anyway Im just pumped. Also Im not sure Brad did anything to help Joey I think he just ran to hard out of 2 and got sideways opening the door... Im still nor sure why Kenseth didn't go down to block Joey.
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Well he could not block EVERYONE....but that's just part of the deal and why I think wins can be an overblown stat at times. HAD Kenseth blocked Joey then Gordon or Keslowski would be in victory lane. All a driver can do is put themselves in the best position possible and see where the cards fall. In Kasey's case more often than not they just don't fall that way...that's why people say "no killer instinct" but sometimes there's nothing you can do.
 
ramfan9 said:
Well he could not block EVERYONE....but that's just part of the deal and why I think wins can be an overblown stat at times. HAD Kenseth blocked Joey then Gordon or Keslowski would be in victory lane. All a driver can do is put themselves in the best position possible and see where the cards fall. In Kasey's case more often than not they just don't fall that way...that's why people say "no killer instinct" but sometimes there's nothing you can do.
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I duno.. Joey had quite the run... maybe Kenseth knew if he went down to block him then he would have had two angry Penske drivers on his ass.... Id bet he would have been sent further up the track by Joey had he cut him off then he was by Brad ... but I duno... don't need to worry about that. Actually I don't have to worry about anything :) In the chase. Essentially leading the points. Lookin faster than ever and showing no signs of slowing down.

That being said... I'll root for Kasey for ya at Talladega and Kansas. Id rather see him be the next HMS driver with a win really.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I duno.. Joey had quite the run... maybe Kenseth knew if he went down to block him then he would have had two angry Penske drivers on his ass.... Id bet he would have been sent further up the track by Joey had he cut him off then he was by Brad ... but I duno... don't need to worry about that. Actually I don't have to worry about anything :) In the chase. Essentially leading the points. Lookin faster than ever and showing no signs of slowing down.

That being said... I'll root for Kasey for ya at Talladega and Kansas. Id rather see him be the next HMS driver with a win really.
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Appreciated but Kasey's bad luck is magnified by 10 in plate races. I go into them with zero expectations. He was caught up in someone else's mess in ALL 4 of them last year and at Daytona this year. He is an underrated plate racer as he has won a duel race and should have won the fall race at Dega the year Vickers won but got burned by that "at the time of caution" crap. The same thing happened in a Nationwide race at Dega recently...he was the first to the line but the caution came out just before they got to the line...then Daytona last summer he was right there running second at the end and got screwed by his teammate's bone head move....it just never ends but I will try to hope for the best like always. Kansas could be a different story since he ran second there last year.....
 
ramfan9 said:
Appreciated but Kasey's bad luck is magnified by 10 in plate races. I go into them with zero expectations. He was caught up in someone else's mess in ALL 4 of them last year and at Daytona this year. He is an underrated plate racer as he has won a duel race and should have won the fall race at Dega the year Vickers won but got burned by that "at the time of caution" crap. The same thing happened in a Nationwide race at Dega recently...he was the first to the line but the caution came out just before they got to the line...then Daytona last summer he was right there running second at the end and got screwed by his teammate's bone head move....it just never ends but I will try to hope for the best like always. Kansas could be a different story since he ran second there last year.....
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His team is just out to lunch this year, I'm not expecting a win anywhere except maybe a plate race
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Takes a reading comprehension Nazi to know a typo Nazi


I guess.
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Oh, this is fun...takes me right back to 3rd ghrade....the old "takes one to know one." LMFAO! What do I caome back with..... How about "I know you are but what am I?

Either way I am made my point that Kasey's performance does not deserve the citicism it gets and I really can't see where anyone has put a solid argument together to the contrary. Also, I only said reck lacked reading comprehension because of the post where it was indicated that I said Kasey was better than other drivers and if you go back and read I never said that except for saying his overall numbers are better than Joey Logano's. I don't bother gettig into the whole which is "better" debate because "better" is such a broad term anyway. Also, I am not one of those fans that thinks my driver is the best out there just because I root for them.
 
JJ hasn't won yet either & Dale Jr has fallen off since Vegas. Hell, I'm beginning to think HMS doesn't care anymore.
 
ramfan9 said:
Oh, this is fun...takes me right back to 3rd ghrade....the old "takes one to know one." LMFAO! What do I caome back with..... How about "I know you are but what am I?

Either way I am made my point that Kasey's performance does not deserve the citicism it gets and I really can't see where anyone has put a solid argument together to the contrary. Also, I only said reck lacked reading comprehension because of the post where it was indicated that I said Kasey was better than other drivers and if you go back and read I never said that except for saying his overall numbers are better than Joey Logano's. I don't bother gettig into the whole which is "better" debate because "better" is such a broad term anyway. Also, I am not one of those fans that thinks my driver is the best out there just because I root for them.
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If you thnk he does not care you are obviusly not listening to his raidio during the race.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
JJ hasn't won yet either & Dale Jr has fallen off since Vegas. Hell, I'm beginning to think HMS doesn't care anymore.
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I really don't see where you are coming up with that. Jr has not really had a bad car yet this year anywhere that I can recall and the last 2 races have seen ALL the HMS cars running solidly in the top 10. Kasey blew a tire and punded the wall at Darlington and Jimme had some issues at Richmond as well. Gordon easily could have won a race or 2 by now as well as JJ. I don't know what it is with people's expectations.....it is so hard to win at this level. You have to have a good car AND the cards all have to fall right. A perfect example of this is Joey Logano on Saturday night....had a good car and drove a good race but if that last caution does not come out he does not win. All I am hoping for every week is a top 10...anything else is just a bonus.
 
ramfan9 said:
I really don't see where you are coming up with that. Jr has not really had a bad car yet this year anywhere that I can recall and the last 2 races have seen ALL the HMS cars running solidly in the top 10. Kasey blew a tire and punded the wall at Darlington and Jimme had some issues at Richmond as well. Gordon easily could have won a race or 2 by now as well as JJ. I don't know what it is with people's expectations.....it is so hard to win at this level. You have to have a good car AND the cards all have to fall right. A perfect example of this is Joey Logano on Saturday night....had a good car and drove a good race but if that last caution does not come out he does not win. All I am hoping for every week is a top 10...anything else is just a bonus.
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You must be new here. Calm down sugartits
 
ramfan9 said:
I'm perfectly calm.....maybe you just can't handle it when someone disagrees with you and points out fact to show why you are wrong.....sugartits.
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My statement was pure sarcasm in relation to a thread that was created at the beginning of the season that rivals the idiocracy of this one. But if you feel the need to "be right" on the internet lol I'll let you have it.
 
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