NASCAR Death Bed

Spotter22 said:
Sure it wont. TV numbers still bring in 3-6 million viewers per race which is Very strong compared to other major sports not named football. You are dreaming if you think its gonna die.
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Doubt Fox and NBC renew...maybe TNT or some obscure channel.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm happy to see Cummins come back to NASCAR, but these little toe-dipping sponsorship exercises don't do much change the narrative. While having 36 different primary sponsors for each car might pay the bills, it doesn't move the sport forward very much. None of these one, two, three race sponsors are making NASCAR a BIG part of their marketing footprint the way major primary sponsors did in the past, and that carries NASCAR further away from mainstream consciousness.
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Exactly, but the apologists here will say don't worry about that, it's no big deal
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm happy to see Cummins come back to NASCAR, but these little toe-dipping sponsorship exercises don't do much change the narrative. While having 36 different primary sponsors for each car might pay the bills, it doesn't move the sport forward very much. None of these one, two, three race sponsors are making NASCAR a BIG part of their marketing footprint the way major primary sponsors did in the past, and that carries NASCAR further away from mainstream consciousness.
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They don't change YOUR narrative.

There is clearly no news that can exist here without negative commentary to minimize it. Ridiculous.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm happy to see Cummins come back to NASCAR, but these little toe-dipping sponsorship exercises don't do much change the narrative. While having 36 different primary sponsors for each car might pay the bills, it doesn't move the sport forward very much. None of these one, two, three race sponsors are making NASCAR a BIG part of their marketing footprint the way major primary sponsors did in the past, and that carries NASCAR further away from mainstream consciousness.
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Excellent point. It’s steady, long-term sponsorship that captures the attention of people who MAY be interested.
 
to whom it may concern ..or not. You don't have a clue what captures the attention of people. Don't even know what Rush Truck Centers are or what they sell, much less know of Peterbuilt Steve or any of the goings on between the major truck motors the last couple of years. Like I said you don't know people who may be interested. If or when Cummins continues to throw money in the pot, you can be sure with the pick a parts it won't be enough or the right kind.
 
StandOnIt said:
to whom it may concern ..or not. You don't have a clue what captures the attention of people. Don't even know what Rush Truck Centers are or what they sell, much less know of Peterbuilt Steve or any of the goings on between the major truck motors the last couple of years. Like I said you don't know people who may be interested. If or when Cummins continues to throw money in the pot, you can be sure with the pick a parts it won't be enough or the right kind.
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My point is that these small sponsorship deals are pretty much the equivalent of buying some bloodless 30 second TV commercials or some billboards. They serve a purpose, but they are not likely to raise the profile of the sport, get the attention of the marketing people at other large companies or grow the audience by spreading real awareness of the sport. Remember not that long ago when the Goodwrench racing teams were public persona of service at EVERY GM dealership, everybody wanted DJ to drive the big brown truck, every bar had #2 Miller Lite paraphernalia on the wall , Jeff Gordon was THE PUBLIC FACE of one of the largest chemical companies in the world and Dale Jr. was doing national commercials for the biggest beer brand in the country? Those are the kind of things that helped bring the audience AND other major sponsors to the sport, and that just doesn't happen anymore, and it WON'T with sponsors spending $200-400,000 a year and slapping some stickers on the car, in this case, not even the whole car. This is not any way to denigrate Cummins, AND, I'm glad they have the interest to do it at ANY level of commitment, but like I said, this sponsorship model is NOT going to get us where we want to go and need to go.
 
NJJammer said:
Excellent point. It’s steady, long-term sponsorship that captures the attention of people who MAY be interested.
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Why can't NASCAR go back to the type of body rules like on your picture?


Uh...the car...but the gals are ok too.
 
Formerjackman said:
My point is that these small sponsorship deals are pretty much the equivalent of buying some bloodless 30 second TV commercials or some billboards. They serve a purpose, but they are not likely to raise the profile of the sport, get the attention of the marketing people at other large companies or grow the audience by spreading real awareness of the sport. Remember not that long ago when the Goodwrench racing teams were public persona of service at EVERY GM dealership, everybody wanted DJ to drive the big brown truck, every bar had #2 Miller Lite paraphernalia on the wall , Jeff Gordon was THE PUBLIC FACE of one of the largest chemical companies in the world and Dale Jr. was doing national commercials for the biggest beer brand in the country? Those are the kind of things that helped bring the audience AND other major sponsors to the sport, and that just doesn't happen anymore, and it WON'T with sponsors spending $200-400,000 a year and slapping some stickers on the car, in this case, not even the whole car. This is not any way to denigrate Cummins, AND, I'm glad they have the interest to do it at ANY level of commitment, but like I said, this sponsorship model is NOT going to get us where we want to go and need to go.
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This sponsorship model is not intended to get you where you think you want and need to go.

Revenue is revenue. The tire bill is right up against $30,000 per week per car. Standing on some weird moral high ground pining for the way things were is not going to help pay it.
 
Formerjackman said:
My point is that these small sponsorship deals are pretty much the equivalent of buying some bloodless 30 second TV commercials or some billboards. They serve a purpose, but they are not likely to raise the profile of the sport, get the attention of the marketing people at other large companies or grow the audience by spreading real awareness of the sport. Remember not that long ago when the Goodwrench racing teams were public persona of service at EVERY GM dealership, everybody wanted DJ to drive the big brown truck, every bar had #2 Miller Lite paraphernalia on the wall , Jeff Gordon was THE PUBLIC FACE of one of the largest chemical companies in the world and Dale Jr. was doing national commercials for the biggest beer brand in the country? Those are the kind of things that helped bring the audience AND other major sponsors to the sport, and that just doesn't happen anymore, and it WON'T with sponsors spending $200-400,000 a year and slapping some stickers on the car, in this case, not even the whole car. This is not any way to denigrate Cummins, AND, I'm glad they have the interest to do it at ANY level of commitment, but like I said, this sponsorship model is NOT going to get us where we want to go and need to go.
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We'll said and I totally agree, the sport is condensing, it will scale down to point where it won't be relevant, it might still be around, but as far as it getting national exposure beyond 5 years from now...i doubt it will get much.
 
StandOnIt said:
point is every thread almost gets clogged up by old timers that can't let go of the past and live in the now.
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I live in the now, everyday dude, so where you are going with that statement I'm a little mystified by it. To say that some of us older fans are living in the past is a gross injustice. Most of us older fans appreciate what really good racing is, we also identify with the different makes, which NASCAR has chosen to distinguish the brand's with a few decals and different front grills. NASCAR lost it's identity a long time ago, this shows in every aspect of the sport.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I live in the now, everyday dude, so where you are going with that statement I'm a little mystified by it. To say that some of us older fans are living in the past is a gross injustice. Most of us older fans appreciate what really good racing is, we also identify with the different makes, which NASCAR has chosen to distinguish the brand's with a few decals and different front grills. NASCAR lost it's identity a long time ago, this shows in every aspect of the sport.
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that pretty much validates what I said. :D been racing plates for over thirty years, and some old timers are still griping about it. Doesn't matter if they are some of the most popular races year after year. By gawd it killed Nascar. :D
 
StandOnIt said:
that pretty much validates what I said. :D been racing plates for over thirty years, and some old timers are still griping about it. Doesn't matter if they are some of the most popular races year after year. By gawd it killed Nascar. :D
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If you like demolition derbys fine, I happen to like real racing!
 
aunty dive said:
This sponsorship model is not intended to get you where you think you want and need to go.

Revenue is revenue. The tire bill is right up against $30,000 per week per car. Standing on some weird moral high ground pining for the way things were is not going to help pay it.
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It has NOTHING to do with moral ground, and it has nothing to do with pining. It has EVERYTHING to do with knowing how the sport got where it WAS, how it got to where it IS, and growing the sport and moving forward, not just existing on the current and declining fan base and watch it slide into irrelevancy or worse. I'm not suggesting that teams not take the money available, and I'm not suggesting that having a laundry list of small sponsors is always a bad thing, but at this point in it's existence, NASCAR needs MORE from sponsors than just a check for services rendered. The tire bill might be getting paid, but these sponsors aren't helping carry the sport into mainstream America, and expanding interest in it. It is my opinion, and the opinion of others that the current business model is barely sustainable at best. I won't even pretend I have an answer for what is happening, just that I am not myopic enough to not see what is happening.
 
Formerjackman said:
It has NOTHING to do with moral ground, and it has nothing to do with pining. It has EVERYTHING to do with knowing how the sport got where it WAS, how it got to where it IS, and growing the sport and moving forward, not just existing on the current and declining fan base and watch it slide into irrelevancy or worse. I'm not suggesting that teams not take the money available, and I'm not suggesting that having a laundry list of small sponsors is always a bad thing, but at this point in it's existence, NASCAR needs MORE from sponsors than just a check for services rendered. The tire bill might be getting paid, but these sponsors aren't helping carry the sport into mainstream America, and expanding interest in it. It is my opinion, and the opinion of others that the current business model is barely sustainable at best. I won't even pretend I have an answer for what is happening, just that I am not myopic enough to not see what is happening.
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I agree with this to a certain extent. For example, Look at what the relationship Budweiser had with Dale Earnhardt Jr...those two were everywhere. Awesome Commercials, movies,music videos, late night tv shows and MTV cribs. Nowadays you just don’t see that type of sponsor relationships between sponsor and driver that do indeed crossover to mainstream. Does anything even comes close to that in today’s current NASCAR? To totally disregard and not pay any mind to it, I’m not so sure that’s a good way to go.
 
Dale drove the black Goodwrench car. Jeff drove the Dupont car. King drove the STP car. Mark drove the Valvoline car. Davey drove the Texaco car. Harry drove the Skoal car. Tony drove the Home Depot car. Etc.

Nowadays....what's Harvick drive? The Busch, Jimmy Johns, Mobil 1, Outback car? Kez drives what....the Miller, Discount Tire, Wurth, Alliance, Autotrader, Fitzgerald car? Guys have a completely different looking car every week. Bubba Wallace has like 10 different sponsors.

It's much harder to identify a driver with a brand these days. I think it hurts the marketability of the sport. Sponsors just don't want to pay for a full season anymore. It sucks but that's reality I guess.
 
StandOnIt said:
So when a new sponsor shows up and it gets posted, this is their welcome.
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I'm not trying to be a Negative Nancy, it's just a discussion. If you want to get excited about a company signing up to be an associate sponsor for a couple races, I'm not gonna piss on your parade. Are we really supposed to get all jacked up over something this insignificant? If this leads to a bigger commitment from them down the road, then great. But forgive me if I'm not jumping for joy like this is some groundbreaking coup for the sport.
 
StandOnIt said:
So when a new sponsor shows up and it gets posted, this is their welcome.
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So just because we don't have a solution for an issue, we're supposed to pretend it doesn't exist? Once again, this isn't a slam at these sponsors. We appreciate their involvement, and it is very much needed. That being said, the type of involvement we are getting today leaves a gap compared to past sponsorship commitments. I don't think that is pining for the old days, it's addressing the fact that this sport runs on money, and there is a lot less of it going around than there was just a few years ago. If somebody can articulate a business model that will help propel the sport forward without some things happening the way they USED to happen, I'm all ears. All I'm saying is "This is what used to happen. Now it doesn't. How do we go from here?
 
Formerjackman said:
So just because we don't have a solution for an issue, we're supposed to pretend it doesn't exist? Once again, this isn't a slam at these sponsors. We appreciate their involvement, and it is very much needed. That being said, the type of involvement we are getting today leaves a gap compared to past sponsorship commitments. I don't think that is pining for the old days, it's addressing the fact that this sport runs on money, and there is a lot less of it going around than there was just a few years ago. If somebody can articulate a business model that will help propel the sport forward without some things happening the way they USED to happen, I'm all ears. All I'm saying is "This is what used to happen. Now it doesn't. How do we go from here?
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until that time, it is over and over and over again. I guess if that is all some people know which isn't that much so be it. people running around saying the sky is falling when somebody posts a news article. I think it is nothing but a pity party. This isn't news, everybody and their little dog knows about the problems Nascar has.
 
eh that wasn't directed at anybody in particular, it is a large group IMO around here that frankly I think needs an attitude adjustment. They disrespect everything under the guise of being concerned? Somehow a company that hasn't sponsored anything racing related in a very long time does so and it is a bad thing? This has been going on for a very long time and it will continue to do so it is now, not way back then. Long term year long sponsorship hasn't been a reality for awhile and even then only a thing reserved for the very few.
 
StandOnIt said:
until that time, it is over and over and over again. I guess if that is all some people know which isn't that much so be it. people running around saying the sky is falling when somebody posts a news article. I think it is nothing but a pity party. This isn't news, everybody and their little dog knows about the problems Nascar has.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not looking for pity, I'm looking for ideas, for solutions. This ENTIRE thread is devoted to debunking the notion that NASCAR has SERIOUS issues. That's fine, but if people are going to post stories of minor sponsorship transactions as some sort of evidence that things are just fine, then I think it is more than fair to counter it with the other side of the coin. If that Cummins story would have been posted in ANY other thread than this one, I wouldn't have said a word about it.
 
StandOnIt said:
eh that wasn't directed at anybody in particular, it is a large group IMO around here that frankly I think needs an attitude adjustment. They disrespect everything under the guise of being concerned? Somehow a company that hasn't sponsored anything racing related in a very long time does so and it is a bad thing? This has been going on for a very long time and it will continue to do so it is now, not way back then. Long term year long sponsorship hasn't been a reality for awhile and even then only a thing reserved for the very few.
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I’d be really surprised if a Fortune 500 company willing to sponsor 30 races a year backed away at the last minute because some posters on racing-forums.com are not giving them a warm welcome
 
Snappy D said:
I’d be really surprised if a Fortune 500 company willing to sponsor 30 races a year backed away at the last minute because some posters on racing-forums.com are not giving them a warm welcome
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yeah they would be jumping for joy if they used this place for their decisions. o_O
 
Formerjackman said:
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not looking for pity, I'm looking for ideas, for solutions. This ENTIRE thread is devoted to debunking the notion that NASCAR has SERIOUS issues. That's fine, but if people are going to post stories of minor sponsorship transactions as some sort of evidence that things are just fine, then I think it is more than fair to counter it with the other side of the coin. If that Cummins story would have been posted in ANY other thread than this one, I wouldn't have said a word about it.
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Same here
 
StandOnIt said:
eh that wasn't directed at anybody in particular, it is a large group IMO around here that frankly I think needs an attitude adjustment. They disrespect everything under the guise of being concerned? Somehow a company that hasn't sponsored anything racing related in a very long time does so and it is a bad thing? This has been going on for a very long time and it will continue to do so it is now, not way back then. Long term year long sponsorship hasn't been a reality for awhile and even then only a thing reserved for the very few.
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I never said it was a bad thing, it just isn't a BIG thing.
 
Formerjackman said:
This ENTIRE thread is devoted to debunking the notion that NASCAR has SERIOUS issues. That's fine, but if people are going to post stories of minor sponsorship transactions as some sort of evidence that things are just fine, then I think it is more than fair to counter it with the other side of the coin.
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I don't see anyone here saying the Nascar industry doesn't have serious issues, nor saying everything is just peachy. There are some who claim Nascar is on its last-gasp deathbed, and some try to infuse that sentiment into many different threads whether it's on topic or not. And there are deathbedders who greet every piece of good news about the sport as something to be denied and denigrated.

There are others who feel, sorta like Mark Twain, that news of Nascar's death is premature. But no one is saying it's all high cotton and sweet clover.
 
All one has to do is look to the continued decline in ratings, decline in track attendance, the loss of sponsorship money, an aging fan base, and the possibility that the owner is looking to bail to figure out that the sport has SERIOUS issues that will effected it in both the short and long term. NASCAR appears to be a rudderless ship whose management is incapable of fixing its issues, or simply seeks to ignore the slide they find the sport caught in.
 
I will say this, the teams went crazy with the spending and brought this upon themselves. Used to be 15 million sponsored a car for the whole season. Now they are asking 30 million for a top five team, about 25 million for top ten 20 million for top 15 and slide the scale backwards for the others. The sponsors are getting less and paying more so now they get half the season. The same goes with the TV broadcasts, it now takes two networks to cover the 36 races.
Nascar and the race teams have to drop the overhead costs and I believe that starts with the drivers salary. ( I think that is happening) Next they have to bring the shop costs down even if that means the same parts fit all the cars. ( Dropping one man over the wall is a start) They have already started to make them run two races with the same engine. ( Of course Roush, Hendrick and RCR won't like that). The fix is in the works but it will take some time. Eventually you will see teams max out at 3 cars and some new teams form.
 
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