NASCAR Death Bed

aunty dive said:
There's a limit to downforce reduction given the current mix of venues. That's all I'm saying.

Are we there yet? I don't know the answer to that.
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That 1992 Ford had a lot more downforce and a lot more horsepower than current Cup cars. And there was a lot of aero push as well... just watch the races. It is easy to see that 1992 physics was same as 2017 physics. You didn't hear the announcers or drivers talking about aero push, as the term had not yet been coined, and aero effects were not generally understood, but it was there.

I think we are close to the limit on downforce reduction, but still a long way to go in shedding side force. That is the next step IMO. It will further reduce cornering speeds and enable cars to be side-by-side in the turns. The current effect where a car to your outside "sucks you around" will be reduced. Of course, that car does not actually suck you around, so the popular phrase is a misnomer. What it does is block the air that a moment ago was giving you side force, like kicking the crutch away from a guy and watching him tumble. Less side force means less crutch, so loss of crutch means you don't tumble. That is the theory, and I believe it.

aunty dive said:
Minimum chassis ride height back then was 4 or 4 1/4".
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But that is a static measurement. Was there any mechanism to enforce that at speed? (I can't remember that far back...)
 
Ride height measurements are always static, as you know.

Without instrumentation, there's no way to measure it dynamically ergo no rule to enforce.

Sparks fly.
 
aunty dive said:
Ride height measurements are always static, as you know.

Without instrumentation, there's no way to measure it dynamically ergo no rule to enforce.

Sparks fly.
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Right. Just further evidence that it is pure fantasy when people say, "Raise up the cars and that will cure aero dependency."
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
How many people really think NASCAR is dying off and won't be around in 10-15-20 years?
I think NASCAR will always be the name of a body that sanctions races and things may look different but it ain't disappearing. I see a future of 4-6 cylinders cars that are smaller with crate motors and rolling chassis available and no manufacturers present. I see more road courses as well as a street course or 2 with a 25 race season. I also think that tracks like Pocono, MIS and Ricmond will disappear as well Kentucky while other tracks will be down to one date with many running a different configuration then what they do now.
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I give cup another 5 years and gone as we know it....who's going to pay for it?
LewTheShoe said:
Right. Just further evidence that it is pure fantasy when people say, "Raise up the cars and that will cure aero dependency."
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Raise them up , less hp, get rid of the spec car.
 
^ Somebody probably signed the renewal document in error.

He / she got fired and this will be their last year for sure.
 
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Let's compare NASCAR, to IMSA, since NASCAR owns both series. One has good attendance, plenty of sponsors, and manufacturers, waiting to get in on the action. The other has exactly the opposite. You would think that one could take a lesson from the other, on how to grow during these tough times. IMSA doesn't seem to have a problem attracting younger fans, or sponsors, or anything else that plagues NASCAR. Do you think it could be, that IMSA offers racing, and a championship, without gimmicks, stages, and playoffs? Whatever it is they are doing, NASCAR should give it a try, because what they are doing isn't working. I'll be going to Laguna Seca this weekend for the IMSA races. I got third floor tower tickets next to the start \ finish line, across from pit road. I'll ask the younger fans why they are there. I'm interested to see what they have to say.
 
aunty dive said:
Ride height measurements are always static, as you know.

Without instrumentation, there's no way to measure it dynamically ergo no rule to enforce.

Sparks fly.
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We went to a test session at PIR once ... they had lasers hanging off all four corners .......... were they measuring dynamic height or what ?
 
aunty dive said:
Yes.
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So ........... they did that right after they reconfigured the track ... I am going to assume that they will be able to use that data they collected for all their future set ups at that track ? And have they collected similar data at all the other tracks ?
 
kyle18fan said:
So ........... they did that right after they reconfigured the track ... I am going to assume that they will be able to use that data they collected for all their future set ups at that track ? And have they collected similar data at all the other tracks ?
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Yes and yes ... everywhere there's been an open test or a tire test (that data is shared by manufacturer).
 
You know whats gonna happen, the day NASCAR does die, some of us are not gonna believe it because of all this "boy that cried wolf" posting.
 
jws926 said:
You know whats gonna happen, the day NASCAR does die, some of us are not gonna believe it because of all this "boy that cried wolf" posting.
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I believe the overwhelming majority believes Nascar will always be around in some form or another. Nascar is aging out fan wise and in 10 years a good size chunk of the current fan base won't be around but if Indy Car can make it Nascar most certainly can.
 
It's not so much the stage racing, the cars suck the track way too much. Maybe the real problem is that there are to many things you can't do to the car. I mean, maybe if you let the teams do what they want under the car. Then again it could be worse. Maybe a larger variety of parts they can use. Maybe I'm an idiot .....
 
Yogisd1 said:
That's the problem, it isn't just one big thing, it's a bunch of little things.
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All I know is that Nascar loses a considerable portion of their fan base each year and I am sure there are many reasons. FOX broadcasts were off 12% this year and NBC is down as well plus there were empty seats for a playoff race in the country's third most populous market. I totally get the "ratings were 100% at my house" folks as they know something is wrong but also know they can't do anything about it and enjoy things as best they can. There is a contingent of folks who think everything is good with Nascar and there are no issues for them to overcome. PT Barnum people I guess.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I believe the overwhelming majority believes Nascar will always be around in some form or another. Nascar is aging out fan wise and in 10 years a good size chunk of the current fan base won't be around but if Indy Car can make it Nascar most certainly can.
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I agree, it's of my opinion I think as long as there is auto racing and automobiles, there will be NASCAR, anything beyond, I dont know as I am not a fortune teller
 
jws926 said:
I agree, it's of my opinion I think as long as there is auto racing and automobiles, there will be NASCAR, anything beyond, I dont know as I am not a fortune teller
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When it comes to NASCAR I feel there will be a remnant and that a smaller series could be exciting and something to look forward too.
 
NASCAR is following the trajectory of Navin Johnson (Steve Martin) in the movie The Jerk.

Rags to riches to ??? -- with a lot of stupidity along the way...
 
The glory days of NASCAR's growth in the '80s and '90's is over and dead, never to return. However, I think much like MLB continues on after it's glory days of the '30's-'70's when everybody it seemed at least cared about the World Series, NASCAR will never cease to exist.
 
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