The changes have arrived.

LouieLouie said:
Understood, but even the cars of the 70s,80s, and 90s at least somewhat resembled a showroom car, more so in the 70s and 80s. In 2007 we got the COT car which looks nothing like a showroom car. I cetainly can't pin all of NASCAR woes on the design of the cars because we all know there are other issues, but to say the look of the cars didn't play a part I think is not fair either.



My point was that the showroom versions have V8 options and RWD which is somewhat relatable to the race car versions. The building blocks to moving toward more showroom like vehicles are there already opposed to manufacturers starting from scratch (except Toyota). Additionally, the sportscar series already has racecar versions of the camaro and mustang that actually look like the showroom versions.

I'm not saying this would solve all of NASCAR's problems, but if you want to talk about bringing in new fans they need something to relate to and this could help open the door for them to explore it more.
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I am totally baffled by the (frequent) suggestions to use purpose-built race cars but dress them up in OEM bodies to make them look like something they are not.

This is not theater. This is racing, indeed, the highest form of racing in America. In theater, we willingly accept that the costumed actor on stage is the Hunchback of Notre Dame, or the Lion King. When he falls to the floor, he is dead. And Peter Pan can fly. But racing is real men engaged in real competition. No costumes, please, cause I'm not suspending disbelief like at a movie or opera. The sleek, low, totally functional look is bad to the bone IMO.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
And I'm totally baffled by purpose-build race cars dressed up in costumes pretending to be something they are not - Camrys, SSs, and Fusions.

Same coin, different side.
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Yeah, I get that. The manufacturers like the "styling cues" as a reinforcement of their sponsorship. They supply motors, tech support, and financial support. Same deal as the cues on the Daytona Prototypes, as well as John Force's funny car.

There's a big difference between styling cues and full masquerade, IMO.
 
aunty dive said:
Fuel strategy is always in play. The segments can't change that.
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Fuel strategy goes out of play if they make the first two segments shorter than a fuel run, or any of them where there's no danger of running out after the first can. Then all that's left is when to pit to avoid possible yellows; not much strategy there.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Fuel strategy goes out of play if they make the first two segments shorter than a fuel run, or any of them where there's no danger of running out after the first can. Then all that's left is when to pit to avoid possible yellows; not much strategy there.
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I might be inclined to top up during a first segment caution then stay out during the break.

Just for starters.
 
aunty dive said:
I might be inclined to top up during a first segment caution then stay out during the break.

Just for starters.
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That'll just bite you late in the second segment. Do it too early and you'll be on older tires after the restart. On some tracks, you may get caught a lap down.

But we'll see.
 
Strategy will most certainly be magnified by this format.

Confused on the whole fuel strategy being taken out of the event. The only time that really seems to come into play is at the latter stages of the race. Nothing's going to be changing with that under this format.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That'll just bite you late in the second segment. Do it too early and you'll be on older tires after the restart. On some tracks, you may get caught a lap down.

But we'll see.
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Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.

Or maybe not. All part of the beauty of long-distance professional motorsports.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Fuel strategy goes out of play if they make the first two segments shorter than a fuel run, or any of them where there's no danger of running out after the first can. Then all that's left is when to pit to avoid possible yellows; not much strategy there.
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I was thinking they're going to adjust them to make sure the first two segments end just past a full fuel run so as long as thing go green everyone has to pit once per and no one can get really off-sequence (if you pit again during the break you only have a few laps more in fuel/tires) and set things up for the rest of the race.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
And I'm totally baffled by purpose-build race cars dressed up in costumes pretending to be something they are not - Camrys, SSs, and Fusions.

Same coin, different side.
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The manufactures throw big money at Nascar teams, cash or parts. What do you think would entice them to keep doing so if there was no advertising of their brand. When Brian went to the COT, all that could be said was the car ran a specific brand of engine which you can never buy in any show room.
Brian (Nascar) was forced to either get back back to racing cars that when standing still resembled the manufacture 's car and used that name. Otherwise you would not have any manufacturers involved. Nascar is nothing more than a form of Advertising and when that doesn't work, it will be finished.
 
If NASCAR is just a marketing exercise, it's a pretty stupidly set up one. On one hand you've got the sanctioning body, the tracks and the broadcast networks all making money directly or indirectly based on how much TV ad time they can sell. On the other hand you have the race teams who make their money primarily off of selling sponsorship advertising on their race cars, the value of which is directly determined by how many people are watching and how long. See the problem here? You can't be looking at a sponsor paint scheme when you're on commercial break.
 
Acs said:
If NASCAR is just a marketing exercise, it's a pretty stupidly set up one. On one hand you've got the sanctioning body, the tracks and the broadcast networks all making money directly or indirectly based on how much TV ad time they can sell. On the other hand you have the race teams who make their money primarily off of selling sponsorship advertising on their race cars, the value of which is directly determined by how many people are watching and how long. See the problem here? You can't be looking at a sponsor paint scheme when you're on commercial break.
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A commercial break is part of the marketing, they just pay for the TV time which in turn pays big money to the tracks and teams. It is still just marketing, tax deduction and promotions.

If Nascar was as popular as the 90's you would have been able to switch to Pay TV and you may have the same number of people watching today . Less me of course.
 
Interesting.




I like that change. Instead of closing it with 5 to go, keeping it open does a number of interesting things. It keeps fuel mileage in play for the segments making it less risky with no threat of penalty. BUT the biggest thing this will do is at Pocono, indy, the road courses, it keeps the "traditional" strategy open of pitting under green and staying out under caution. I predict with 2 to go til the segment everyone outside the top 10 will pit and then stay out under the yellow. It will shuffle all the front-runners straight to the back twice a race and should make for some interesting racing as they try and get back to the front.
 
^ I like that change too, but changing procedures now is not exactly confidence inspiring that the rules have been analyzed fully. What else might pop up?
 
LewTheShoe said:
^ I like that change too, but changing procedures now is not exactly confidence inspiring that the rules have been analyzed fully. What else might pop up?
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No worries as that is just Nascar as they normally don't think things through and make changes on the fly that lead to other changes.
 
Saw this posted @ jayski.

All I can say is I'm glad they will be the ones doing the math.

Points explained.jpg
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Saw this posted @ jayski.

All I can say is I'm glad they will be the ones doing the math.

View attachment 24452
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What a mess,Brian seems to have forgotten the keep it simple stupid mantra.The biggest thing about watching sports is to be able to relax and drink a few beers with simple rules you understand.
 
darlingtonfan said:
What a mess,Brian seems to have forgotten the keep it simple stupid mantra.The biggest thing about watching sports is to be able to relax and drink a few beers with simple rules you understand.
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Everyone whines about this but you know tv will over explain the hell out of it every chance they get. Trust me, you'll be caught up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Didn't anyone take math in school?? If the scoring system got any easier for the final segment you would have to go to golf. Big deal, 5 points between winning and second then drop a point for every position. What is not shown here and I wonder why it isn't is that a drivers points change during the race. If you start the race with 100 points and you win segment one your total is 110. If you place 5th in segment 2 your points change to 115 and then you add your points for the final segment. If you win all 3 segments you earn 40 + 10 +10 for a total of 60 points. The total points earned in the segments also count in the Chase.
This is the best system ever in NASCAR (since the Chase) simply because a driver must race every race or get to far behind and fail in the chase based on points.
 
The basics of the stage and race scoring are simple enough. It's the 'playoff points' system that I can see being confusing. It's a separate points system that doesn't come into play until the end of the year, although I expect the networks will constantly remind us who would be ahead "if the regular season ended now".
 
Charlie Spencer said:
The basics of the stage and race scoring are simple enough. It's the 'playoff points' system that I can see being confusing. It's a separate points system that doesn't come into play until the end of the year, although I expect the networks will constantly remind us who would be ahead "if the regular season ended now".
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I'll be following those Chase playoff points the same as I watch the season points. I didn't in the past because they meant so little. Now's a different story.

As far as the math goes. I'll leave that up to the network just like I do each and every week. I'm not going to sit there with a calculator putting that much time into it.
 
darlingtonfan said:
What a mess,Brian seems to have forgotten the keep it simple stupid mantra.The biggest thing about watching sports is to be able to relax and drink a few beers with simple rules you understand.
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I disagree. A lot of people don't know all the rules and play calls in football for example unless you've really been watching for a long time. I couldn't tell you what a nickel formation was if my life depended on it.
 
Team Penske said:
Didn't anyone take math in school?? If the scoring system got any easier for the final segment you would have to go to golf. Big deal, 5 points between winning and second then drop a point for every position. What is not shown here and I wonder why it isn't is that a drivers points change during the race. If you start the race with 100 points and you win segment one your total is 110. If you place 5th in segment 2 your points change to 115 and then you add your points for the final segment. If you win all 3 segments you earn 40 + 10 +10 for a total of 60 points. The total points earned in the segments also count in the Chase.
This is the best system ever in NASCAR (since the Chase) simply because a driver must race every race or get to far behind and fail in the chase based on points.
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I think there is some confusion here, (Maybe I'm confused). The winner of the race not only gets the 40 seasonal points, but also 5 playoff points. The winner of each segment gets 1 playoff point. Only the playoff points carry over to the chase (playoffs). The seasonal points are once again reset once the playoffs start except for the playoff points.
So really it is all about playoff points. The seasonal points are worthless once someone gets a win. i.e. win and you're in.

I've been trying to do some scenarios with the playoff points, and from my messing around, I'm thinking that if anyone can get 7 wins they are pretty much gauranteed to be in the final 4. So I expect to see fewer different winners this year opposed to previous years.
 
LouieLouie said:
I think there is some confusion here, (Maybe I'm confused). The winner of the race not only gets the 40 seasonal points, but also 5 playoff points. The winner of each segment gets 1 playoff point. Only the playoff points carry over to the chase (playoffs). The seasonal points are once again reset once the playoffs start except for the playoff points.
So really it is all about playoff points. The seasonal points are worthless once someone gets a win. i.e. win and you're in.

I've been trying to do some scenarios with the playoff points, and from my messing around, I'm thinking that if anyone can get 7 wins they are pretty much gauranteed to be in the final 4. So I expect to see fewer different winners this year opposed to previous years.
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"regular season" points also matter for getting into the playoffs without a win, just as before. Also, the top 10 in points at the end of the regular season get bonus playoff points as if they had won a race or stage. Yeah, it's confusing as hell.
 
upload_2017-2-8_8-55-22.jpeg


So I bought this to try and figure out the points.

upload_2017-2-8_9-1-5.png


calc.jpg
 
Acs said:
"regular season" points also matter for getting into the playoffs without a win, just as before. Also, the top 10 in points at the end of the regular season get bonus playoff points as if they had won a race or stage. Yeah, it's confusing as hell.
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The way I see things is that it is highly likely Nascar will change things again and maybe even make adjustments this year so the points system isn't anything I have to know about.
 
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