The changes have arrived.

Simple Fan said:
I couldn't get behind it. I like speed and that would make cars slower. I guess you short track fans really aren't about speed though. I know you said not to but the sound would be way different. Don't know if you have ever been to a race but the sound of those cars is awesome. You don't even have to be at the track to feel their power. Whatever they do they can't drop V8s.
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Hey, once I put on the headphones and turn on the scanner, they all sound like Eli Gold to me.
 
the same cars/teams are still going to be up front. The mid packers will be farther behind then before.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
IMO Nascar should have kept current with what was being sold in showrooms as opposed to the flight of fancy we have today. I don't think it is a lot to ask that if a manufacturer wants to race a 2 door, V8, RWD car that they actually produce one. I don't think most people give a fig about though.
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Holy crap, this makes my head hurt.

It takes SO MUCH money and effort to bring a new car to market. That is a LOT to ask considering the current market climate. How many RWD V8 coupes sell in large numbers that aren't already Fords or Chevys? That's the opposite of what the market demands.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
You are in communication with a guy that firmly believes that there is no replacement for displacement as I have a Vette and a 5.7 liter Tundra sitting in the garage along with another vehicle with a 3.5 liter V6 that develops just under 300 hp. If you think that for racing purposes a V6 cannot be built that compares to a V8 you are mistaken and with regard to speed the average Joe can't tell the difference between 160 and 190 mph. For my ear there is nothing like the sound of a small block V8 (especially a GM V8) or a big block with a lumpy stick though.

Many people enjoy short track racing because of the genuine close competition and in general it puts driver skill front and center more so than cookie cutters.
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What's the other vehicle? Accord or 350Z/G35?
 
cheesepuffs said:
Holy crap, this makes my head hurt.

It takes SO MUCH money and effort to bring a new car to market. That is a LOT to ask considering the current market climate. How many RWD V8 coupes sell in large numbers that aren't already Fords or Chevys? That's the opposite of what the market demands.
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Bring on the Prius Cup.
 
NASCAR already races cars based on v8 powered RWD stock cars. It's called the Mustang and Camaro in the Xfinity series. Why they don't bring those models into cup is some bulls**t beyond me.
 
Acs said:
NASCAR already races cars based on v8 powered RWD stock cars. It's called the Mustang and Camaro in the Xfinity series. Why they don't bring those models into cup is some bulls**t beyond me.
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Because those "models" are just stickers so who cares anyway. It's all just marketing man. Those aren't based on anything but a set of tubes.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Because those "models" are just stickers so who cares anyway. It's all just marketing man. Those aren't based on anything but a set of tubes.
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And yet a lot of people on here are making such a huge stink about the cars not being "stock" because they aren't the same configuration as the road cars. My point was it's a easy fix to appease them without changing the whole sport.
 
Acs said:
And yet a lot of people on here are making such a huge stink about the cars not being "stock" because they aren't the same configuration as the road cars. My point was it's a easy fix to appease them without changing the whole sport.
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I think the people making a stink literally want showroom stock based racing. Like, slightly modified cars that could have started their lives on a dealer lot.
 
cheesepuffs said:
I agree that the regulations are much too strict in F1, which is why I like Max Verstappen who is young and brash. Old school type of driver.
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At one point I was ok with open wheel. It was more the fact that it was auto racing as opposed to watching any other sport on tv. The CART/IRL thing did it for me and I never really went back. Also, I've never understood the allure of the Indy 500. Really just not my type of racing. When I was a kid I went to a lot of short track and dirt car races, Indy cars never did it for me.
 
cheesepuffs said:
I think the people making a stink literally want showroom stock based racing. Like, slightly modified cars that could have started their lives on a dealer lot.
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This is just my opinion but if you watched any of the Rolex 24 this past weekend, the GTLM class had 4 different manufacturers nose to tail fighting for the win. All of the cars looked like the showroom counterpart. That is what I would prefer NASCAR to be like. Again, just my opinion, and I must admit that I am becoming a bigger fan of IMSA every year.
 
BobbyFord said:
Open wheel is sad. Rubbing is racing. IMO, open wheel cars are like porcelain racecars.
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IMO, the cars in NASCAR aren't much better than the cars in open wheel. Any "rubbing" that goes on in NASCAR today leads to cut tires or entire bumpers being ripped off, not to mention loss of downforce which basically eliminates a car from being competitive.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Holy crap, this makes my head hurt.

It takes SO MUCH money and effort to bring a new car to market. That is a LOT to ask considering the current market climate. How many RWD V8 coupes sell in large numbers that aren't already Fords or Chevys? That's the opposite of what the market demands.
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It is a different time as GM had to manufacture the Monte Carlo and Grand Prix Aero Coupes in the mid 80's in order to race a facsimile. Now people are docile and content enough to watch spec cars with manufacturers decals festooning them.
 
kymartin6 said:
I know you might not be familiar with it because you live in the frozen North.... but.... in the States... we actually have indoor plumbing and running water ..... quite a nice convienience..... ;)
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I have been to Daytona twice and I wasn't to sure if everyone took advantage of the facilities. :p
 
LouieLouie said:
This is just my opinion but if you watched any of the Rolex 24 this past weekend, the GTLM class had 4 different manufacturers nose to tail fighting for the win. All of the cars looked like the showroom counterpart. That is what I would prefer NASCAR to be like. Again, just my opinion, and I must admit that I am becoming a bigger fan of IMSA every year.
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The 24 Hours was very entertaining and exciting, but don't look behind the curtain. That nose-to-tail parity comes from a never ending series of Balance of Performance juggling where weights change, fuel capacity, refueling flow rates, turbo boosts change, not to mention aero changes affecting drag and downforce. I am sure I missed a few more paramaters.

Such things are an inherent evil in sports car racing, where the cars are the stars. I'm not a supporter of showroom stock for Nascar, a series where the drivers have always been the stars of the show. Yes, it would be great to have greater interest in the manufacturer teams, but Nascar will remain a driver's series first and foremost.

An additional point is that I see no benefit to showroom stock in Nascar as I'm not fond of 4s and 6s on an oval speedway, especially front wheel drive sedans. And the Ferraris, Ford GTs, Porsches, etc etc have no place at Darlington.
 
LouieLouie said:
IMO, the cars in NASCAR aren't much better than the cars in open wheel. Any "rubbing" that goes on in NASCAR today leads to cut tires or entire bumpers being ripped off, not to mention loss of downforce which basically eliminates a car from being competitive.
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This is a great point. I don't know how to fix it, but I would love to see it fixed.
 
LewTheShoe said:
The 24 Hours was very entertaining and exciting, but don't look behind the curtain. That nose-to-tail parity comes from a never ending series of Balance of Performance juggling where weights change, fuel capacity, refueling flow rates, turbo boosts change, not to mention aero changes affecting drag and downforce. I am sure I missed a few more paramaters.

Such things are an inherent evil in sports car racing, where the cars are the stars. I'm not a supporter of showroom stock for Nascar, a series where the drivers have always been the stars of the show. Yes, it would be great to have greater interest in the manufacturer teams, but Nascar will remain a driver's series first and foremost.

An additional point is that I see no benefit to showroom stock in Nascar as I'm not fond of 4s and 6s on an oval speedway, especially front wheel drive sedans. And the Ferraris, Ford GTs, Porsches, etc etc have no place at Darlington.
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Agree the BoP issue is a pain in IMSA, but NASCAR used to have similar issues not too long ago when Fords were better in the corners, Chevys were better on the straights, and GPs were a mix between the two.

As for showroom stock NASCARs, they already have cars that have v8s in them with RWD in the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger. I think technically the Mustang is a turbo v6, and Toyota would need to figure something out, but the building blocks are there.

Having stock cars in NASCAR doesn't make the series less of a driver's series, it just makes the cars more relatable to the fanbase. The drivers and personalities will always make NASCAR special. NASCAR has gotten away from stock cars and exciting personalities, and the ratings have not been good to the series because of it.
 
LouieLouie said:
NASCAR has gotten away from stock cars and exciting personalities, and the ratings have not been good to the series because of it.
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Nascar last used modified production cars in the mid-1960s. I don't think you can pin the declines in attendance and TV ratings, which peaked circa 2007, on a change made 50 years ago.
 
LouieLouie said:
Agree the BoP issue is a pain in IMSA, but NASCAR used to have similar issues not too long ago when Fords were better in the corners, Chevys were better on the straights, and GPs were a mix between the two.

As for showroom stock NASCARs, they already have cars that have v8s in them with RWD in the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger. I think technically the Mustang is a turbo v6, and Toyota would need to figure something out, but the building blocks are there.

Having stock cars in NASCAR doesn't make the series less of a driver's series, it just makes the cars more relatable to the fanbase. The drivers and personalities will always make NASCAR special. NASCAR has gotten away from stock cars and exciting personalities, and the ratings have not been good to the series because of it.
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How are the Xfinity Mustangs and Camaros "showroom stock"? They're tube chassis cars just like Cup and Trucks.
 
The average fan probably doesn't know what NASCAR stands for let alone worry if the car looks like a production car. I'm not even sure if the majority of those that are long time fans really give a damn if the cars represent the production models. I can only say one thing for sure, it doesn't matter to me.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
The average fan probably doesn't know what NASCAR stands for let alone worry if the car looks like a production car. I'm not even sure if the majority of those that are long time fans really give a damn if the cars represent the production models. I can only say one thing for sure, it doesn't matter to me.
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Agreed. They're race cars. Line 'em up and race 'em.
 
LewTheShoe said:
... An additional point is that I see no benefit to showroom stock in Nascar as I'm not fond of 4s and 6s on an oval speedway, especially front wheel drive sedans. And the Ferraris, Ford GTs, Porsches, etc etc have no place at Darlington.
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The Goody's Dash Series was 4-bangers, wasn't it? Apparently manufacturers saw some point to it back then?

Why not other types of racing at Darlington? I'd pay to see that.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Nascar last used modified production cars in the mid-1960s. I don't think you can pin the declines in attendance and TV ratings, which peaked circa 2007, on a change made 50 years ago.
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Understood, but even the cars of the 70s,80s, and 90s at least somewhat resembled a showroom car, more so in the 70s and 80s. In 2007 we got the COT car which looks nothing like a showroom car. I cetainly can't pin all of NASCAR woes on the design of the cars because we all know there are other issues, but to say the look of the cars didn't play a part I think is not fair either.

cheesepuffs said:
How are the Xfinity Mustangs and Camaros "showroom stock"? They're tube chassis cars just like Cup and Trucks.
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My point was that the showroom versions have V8 options and RWD which is somewhat relatable to the race car versions. The building blocks to moving toward more showroom like vehicles are there already opposed to manufacturers starting from scratch (except Toyota). Additionally, the sportscar series already has racecar versions of the camaro and mustang that actually look like the showroom versions.

I'm not saying this would solve all of NASCAR's problems, but if you want to talk about bringing in new fans they need something to relate to and this could help open the door for them to explore it more.
 
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