Uh Oh...Cheater cheater pumpkin eater...L1 for the 4 team

StandOnIt said:
I don't care about cycling and what happened to them. Fans of auto racing know what the deal is. He got caught paid the price, on to next week. The only thing auto racing fans disagree on is the severity of the penalty for the most part.
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Point is that fans do care and they can be driven away by too much funny business.
 
StandOnIt said:
like to tell the truth. :D:p
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I don't understand. If they both the driver and the crew chief say "no" and a violation happens then someone wasn't telling the truth. Also, if the NASCAR Press (cough cough) asked that question it would be impossible to walk away from it. The car is either legal or it isn't. Pretty sure the crew chief is gonna know the answer of if it is or isn't. Maybe the driver won't. Lying when answering the question compounds the problem if they are caught with an illegal car. Also, you can't answer it with "I'm not gonna answer that question" or a "No comment". You could but the optics (oh, no I used the term again) would look really bad.
 
I don't agree. comparing apples to oranges, a totally different fan base, sorry, I guess you can blame the less popularity of biking on just about anything ya want.:p
 
I have to stand with Tony ---
Roll the car through tech --
If you pass -- you race.
If you fail --- you go home.
Yes, sponsors/fans might yell, scream, fall on the ground, rend their clothes --- but
I'd bet my last dollar that the next race, the car would be legal.

From experience of old ---- our late model was packed up a couple of times before ever hitting the track.
The guys never "mis-measured" again.
And, once, only once, during a tear down, was a cylinder a smidge too big.
 
Towmater said:
Yep, one of many and one that could be fixed quickly.
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Yes, the fix for blatant rule breaking is relatively quick and easy, it is also something that Nascar can't afford to do. Sponsors would flip their lids if Harv didn't race the rest of the year
 
kyle18fan said:
Yes, the fix for blatant rule breaking is relatively quick and easy, it is also something that Nascar can't afford to do. Sponsors would flip their lids if Harv didn't race the rest of the year
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I think if NASCAR made it clear at the beginning of the year that blatant rule breaking is grounds for sending a car home, I think the teams would
get the message --- not only from NASCAR's warning, but from the sponsors making it clear that they would not tolerate it, either.
 
You need to go a step further. If found with a violation then all points, your finish, and purse money needs to be stripped away.
 
Towmater said:
You need to go a step further. If found with a violation then all points, your finish, and purse money needs to be stripped away.
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I was speaking of tech BEFORE qualifying. If you don't pass, you put the car in the hauler and head home.
They spent money getting the car to the track, they leave without points or purse money. I bet they won't do that again.
 
I was chatting about what to do if you are found with an illegal race car on post race inspection in Charlotte.
 
Towmater said:
I was chatting about what to do if you are found with an illegal race car on post race inspection in Charlotte.
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Gotcha. Absolutely.
Make it clear at the beginning of the season so there's no misunderstanding by the teams or sponsors. That way, no one can say they weren't warned.
It's the description of "blatant rule breaking" that could be the catch. Something like a loose lug nut, to me, is not a blatant breaking of the rule. There needs to be a distinction.
 
To me, it's not the spoiler shift that was the blatant part of the #4's infraction. It's the substitution of a non-standard part. A shift of .200" is arguably accidental, depending how a part and its mounts are designed. Just having a homemade spoiler in the first place is blatant. There's no way that was installed by accident. Why would you even make one?
 
too much work, I like many others think a no points, win or money and anything related to the owners private game should count. What constitutes that large of a penalty is going to be a problem to figure out. The black n whiters will say everything, but some things a couple of thousands out don't in certain areas deserve that drastic a sanction.
 
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I have always drawn a distinction between what I call measurement penalties (like the car is an 1/8" too low or the spoiler is .200" too far to the right), gray area penalties, (where the rule book doesn't say can't do something but doesn't say you can), and those that are outright blatant attempts to circumvent the rules (like using non-approved parts or modifying throttle linkage to cheat a NASCAR administered dyno test). I agree that IF the 4 car's rear spoiler was NOT an approved piece, that bothers me far more than whether it was in the right place on the car or not. I would have no problem with issuing draconian penalties (like DNQing the car) for things like that but think the L type penalties we have now are probably more appropriate for infractions that COULD just be mistakes or differences in rule interpretation.
 
I'm reading all of these posts and still thinking that the only parts that should be "NASCAR mandated" are those which are safety related. But I digress...……..
 
I agree, that was stepping over the line to make a part that is a spec part. Spec parts are a way to combat cheating and lower costs that all teams can buy. Spending to the sky to make a better one slaps Nascar's policy in the face for not only playing fair, but for the extra work to remove every bodies spoiler to make sure a spec part is genuine. Modifying spec parts should be a no brainer DQ when they make up the rules for next year.
 
Blaney still steamed over penalties

“Honestly, what pissed me off more was our penalty for a crush panel coming loose that had nothing to do with performance,” Blaney said earlier this week. “It honestly probably hurt.”
. The rule is there; I think is kind of a silly rule. It was an inner crush panel, and just some rivets broke off, and it wasn’t even meaning to break, and I know what it was from. You come up on the track under green flag stops and it’s a really rough transition, it just beats up your stuff.
“And I understand (a penalty) it’s a performance thing, but it doesn’t do a damn thing. That’s what made me upset. What pissed me off even more, Kirk Almquist — our car chief, who has busted his ass all year, been with us 34 weeks — doesn’t get to finish the year out. I didn’t like that for the little thing they found on our car. So, that’s what made more mad, is Kirk can’t finish out the year. That really stinks for him. But can’t change anything.”
https://racer.com/2018/11/10/blaney-still-steamed-over-penalties/
 
It was .200 an inch off! Harvick still has the trophy and pistols, had the dominate car in Phoenix today, and is on to homestead to win a championship! Childers is FaceTiming with old man on the box, so that’s no big deal either! #4thecup


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Tight in Loose off said:
It was .200 an inch off! Harvick still has the trophy and pistols, had the dominate car in Phoenix today, and is on to homestead to win a championship! Childers is FaceTiming with old man on the box, so that’s no big deal either! #4thecup


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Always has dominant car, usually doesn't have dominant driver
 
Candace66 said:
Oh goodie, another person who thinks the sport is rigged.
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He'd be in good company. Tony Stewart stated this on his radio show, “They can almost dictate the race instead of the drivers doing it. It’s happened too many times this year. I guess NASCAR thinks, ‘Hey, wrestling worked, and it was for the most part staged, so I guess it's going to work in racing, too. I don’t think they’ve run a fair race all year long.”
 
If they don't have time to tear a car down how are they going to catch cheaters? Sorry, I like Stewart Haas racing but I'm not buying the "we gotta find a way to not be doing these inspections on Wednesday". What needs to be done is penalties need to make it so punitive that no-one would dare cross any line and when they tear down the random cars on Wednesday everyone is within the rules. When the risk of penalty outweighs any reward this stuff will stop. I have heard Dave Moody say that a million times and agree 100%.
 
You may have mis understood. Harvick was saying to get the inspections done at the track. Lots of people have said the same thing.
 
How do they do a complete tear down and inspection of random cars at the track? Answer, they don't. Can't be done. Not enough time to do that on a race day. Stiffer penalties that had some actual teeth and they wouldn't ever find anything wrong with the cars on Wednesday. They need to take the time to do what they do to find cheaters. Do you think the 4 team would have cheated if the penalty was automatic disqualification from Homestead?
 
I'm sure they will figure something out. It would be best to find the offenders before the race, and if any morf into cheating territory catch them afterwards IMO. Didn't happen here and like Harvick said many were doing the same thing, they got caught doing it.
 
It's not so simple and clear cut. If they only look before a race then all the engineers will make the parts pass pre-race inspection then flex or bend to the desired effect during the race. The cars have to be inspected after a race. Complete tear downs are time consuming and not going to happen at the track. This is the last time I'll post it but the simple and easiest solution is to .ake the penalty so bad that this stuff will stop because it's just not worth it anymore. Look at the # 4 team how they got a slap on the wrist and guess what, they're in the final 4 racing for a championship. IMO the punishment was not enough. And you will see, unless Nascar decides enough is enough in the off season.and makes some rules with teeth, the same sort of cheating in 2019 because punitive punishment is nonexistent.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
As to Tony, race manipulation doesn't bother him enough to keep from making money with it. I'm not disagreeing with him as much as pointing out his hypocrisy.
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Tony said show up at the track, the car is illegal or it isn't..pretty simple. So much of this stuff is self cleaning. They all pay a lot of attention to what the others are doing. Somebody slides the spoiler out and gets by, next week more do it, and by the third week even a tech can see the difference. The truck arms were caught the same way. After awhile cars were dog tracking down the straights. Sure it might pass for awhile, but like a drug teams can't get enough of it and they push it until it breaks.
 
A great point made on NASCAR Radio yesterday (I know, right?).....How the hell can F1 tech their cars so quickly when they are 10X more technical than NASCAR race cars? How can that be?
 
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