Uh Oh...Cheater cheater pumpkin eater...L1 for the 4 team

gnomesayin said:
Anyone remember that auto racing and football have little to nothing to do with each other?

Even so, many major sports do strike winners from the books long after the fact. Think NCAA violations and doping penalties. It's the correct way. Anything else prioritizes entertainment over sport. NASCAR should strip wins and all associated rewards as well.
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Think Lance Armstrong, he has the same number of TDF wins that I do.
 
gnomesayin said:
Anyone remember that auto racing and football have little to nothing to do with each other?

Even so, many major sports do strike winners from the books long after the fact. Think NCAA violations and doping penalties. It's the correct way. Anything else prioritizes entertainment over sport. NASCAR should strip wins and all associated rewards as well.
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Other racing series do as well. It's some grandfathered in thing from Bill France Sr days I believe.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Wasn't there a win taken away in the early days? Because the car wasn't totally stock?
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could be, none that I have heard of, none in the last 20 years or so, Nascar goes for the money, and in the days of not much communication back when, it made the series look good. These days with instant knowing, I am not so sure it is a good thing to do everything but let the win stand.
 
1wkdpony said:
So why did he get docked 40 points for the EXACT SAME infraction, and two other teams only were docked 20? The winner does not get 20 more points than 2nd place.
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The other 2 didnt have the same infraction. 2nd L1 penalty
 
gnomesayin said:
Anyone remember that auto racing and football have little to nothing to do with each other?

Even so, many major sports do strike winners from the books long after the fact. Think NCAA violations and doping penalties. It's the correct way. Anything else prioritizes entertainment over sport. NASCAR should strip wins and all associated rewards as well.
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Playoffs, stages, primetime races, RTA. bull**** these sports have nothing to do with each other.
 
Spotter22 said:
The other 2 didnt have the same infraction. 2nd L1 penalty
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an L1 is an L1, they can dock points from 10 up to 40 I believe depending on how bad they think it is, same with barring crew members, the car chief or the crew chief can be banned or both
 
Spotter22 said:
You cannnot tech every part of the car before and directly after the race, cars would never get on the track, everyone knows the drill, just because its not looked at before the race doesnt mean it wont be after, you can solve this problem easily though, bring your car to the track LEGAL. I cant tell you exactly what they did but they modified one of the most important aerodynamic pieces on that race car that was NOT allowed to be touched.
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Thanks I was unsure, I know they tech random cars after the race right? What exactly did they do illegally?
 
StandOnIt said:
how in the heck do you know there was a problem sooner, by guess or by golly? Some things on the car will pass pre-race inspection, but cars have to be taken apart to find problems, that is why they are sent back and are taken apart in a lab with sophisticated measuring equipment. How do you think they found in addition to Harvick, Blaney's door pieces designed to deflect at speed, or Jone's loose rear panel designed to let air out of the car (probably to build downforce at speed). This sport is highly technical always has been, it isn't a simple sport. Pieces can look perfectly fine, but they aren't, they have to be examined closely. Some can get away with it for quite awhile. It is racing and the cat and mouse game is alive and well.
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Thanks....better understanding. NASCAR R/D I assume is where they found the cheated out Parts in the 4 right? I will ask how do they know he wasn’t cheating the whole year???
 
gnomesayin said:
I don't understand the question or the connection between the two circumstances. The #48, already eliminated from the 'playoffs', should have started last week's race in 23rd, and instead was wrongly sent to the back and started about 10 spots lower. An unacceptable error, which they've been pretty open about.

NASCAR's willingness to penalize the #4 team for a major infraction such as this in the midst of their championship battle bolsters NASCAR's credibility for me. How could it not? Can there be any question that the immediate lack of appeal is a tacit admission of guilt and that the infraction is legitimate and real?

Some apparently want NASCAR to look the other way, which is absurd and would be cause to question their credibility.
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I guess my credibility issue with them is what If the 4 was cheating all year? How come they just found it now? I couldn’t imagine the ramifications if this ever happened in Miami. Holy cow.
 
Snappy D said:
Thanks I was unsure, I know they tech random cars after the race right? What exactly did they do illegally?
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Snappy D said:
Thanks....better understanding. NASCAR R/D I assume is where they found the cheated out Parts in the 4 right? I will ask how do they know he wasn’t cheating the whole year???
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do you realize that every piece of the cars have a rule associated with it? every piece does. Do you know SHR goes over every square inch of that car pushing every piece to the limit? All of the top teams do.
 
Snappy D said:
I will ask how do they know he wasn’t cheating the whole year???
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Can't answer that one. I would assume that his car has been torn down after all his wins. As far as I know, nothing was found.

kyle18fan said:
The spoiler may have been overlooked numerous times, we will probably never know.
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Apparently it was something that isn't checked by the OSS. They only found it in the tear down.
 
StandOnIt said:
do you realize that every piece of the cars have a rule associated with it? every piece does. Do you know SHR goes over every square inch of that car pushing every piece to the limit? All of the top teams do.
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I can’t speak intelligently on every piece of the car and it’s rules associated with it. Sorry if I’m coming off as a belligerent fan this stuff actually interests me. If SHR has a crew memeber or guy at the shop go over every square inch to push that car to the limit wouldn’t said person be losing their job today, that’s a pretty big screw up in my estimation.
 
Snappy D said:
I can’t speak intelligently on every piece of the car and it’s rules associated with it. Sorry if I’m coming off as a belligerent fan this stuff actually interests me. If SHR has a crew memeber or guy at the shop go over every square inch to push that car to the limit wouldn’t said person be losing their job today, that’s a pretty big screw up in my estimation.
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are you kidding me. That is what they are about.
 
I've read the thread and I'm still waiting for someone to make the excuse that cheating is a part of NASCAR's mystique because we came out of people running moonshine. Yee haw!

Shhh, wait for it. Wait for it.........
 
Snappy D said:
I can’t speak intelligently on every piece of the car and it’s rules associated with it. Sorry if I’m coming off as a belligerent fan this stuff actually interests me. If SHR has a crew memeber or guy at the shop go over every square inch to push that car to the limit wouldn’t said person be losing their job today, that’s a pretty big screw up in my estimation.
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If that guy has been pushing it to the limit for 33 races, he's not going to lose his job for getting caught on the 34th.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
If that guy has been pushing it to the limit for 33 races, he's not going to lose his job for getting caught on the 34th.
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If the spoiler is to remain unaltered, altering the spoiler is not pushing the limit, it is a blatant infraction of the sanctioning body rules. Some call it cheating, some call it disrespect and some call it stupid.
 
Snappy D said:
I can’t speak intelligently on every piece of the car and it’s rules associated with it. Sorry if I’m coming off as a belligerent fan this stuff actually interests me. If SHR has a crew memeber or guy at the shop go over every square inch to push that car to the limit wouldn’t said person be losing their job today, that’s a pretty big screw up in my estimation.
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This happens all the time, it's racing, many parts and pieces go into fast cars. It isn't simple like is his foot out of bounds or not?
 
1wkdpony said:
So you want to suspend a driver for something he may not have known about?
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If the driver gets suspended the cheating would stop, whether they knew about it or not, owners would not put up with the driver they are paying not driving.
 
kyle18fan said:
If the spoiler is to remain unaltered, altering the spoiler is not pushing the limit, it is a blatant infraction of the sanctioning body rules. Some call it cheating, some call it disrespect and some call it stupid.
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Your idol along with Suraez both got an L1 for having illegal splitters, KDB this year in Xfinity an aero package race, got an L1 for the car being too low. Pot calling the kettle black. or who is the stupidest. It is racing not some morality contest. They all push the limits.
 
kyle18fan said:
If the spoiler is to remain unaltered, altering the spoiler is not pushing the limit, it is a blatant infraction of the sanctioning body rules. Some call it cheating, some call it disrespect and some call it stupid.
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I wasn't discussing the acceptability of the actions, only whether the person responsible for the spoiler would get fired.
 
Remember the 4 Team is so successful at Texas due to Kevin's driving style. Isn't that what the booth guys kept telling us...Now that's funny.
 
StandOnIt said:
This happens all the time, it's racing, many parts and pieces go into fast cars. It isn't simple like is his foot out of bounds or not?
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Ahh....it’s not really black and white.
 
StandOnIt said:
Your idol along with Suraez both got an L1 for having illegal splitters, KDB this year in Xfinity an aero package race, got an L1 for the car being too low. Pot calling the kettle black. or who is the stupidest. It is racing not some morality contest. They all push the limits.
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I won't bother arguing with you as my posts will magically disappear in a matter of seconds.
 
Snappy D said:
I guess my credibility issue with them is what If the 4 was cheating all year? How come they just found it now? I couldn’t imagine the ramifications if this ever happened in Miami. Holy cow.
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The culture of NASCAR and.a lot of racing is such that it is a given that teams are always pushing the boundaries as much as the can. There are the rules as written, and there is rules enforcement, which are separate. For instance, if the pit road speed limit is 45 MPH, and NASCAR let's it be known there is a 5 MPH tolerance, teams will go 50, then 51, then 52, until they are penalized. If a rule states 2 inches with an 1/8" tolerance, what is the rule in practice? If a rule states a part should remain rigid and not flex, teams will figure how much flex they can get away with. That's the game.

There are a bunch of possible real world analogies to explain. If I get away with speeding down the interstate every day for a month, but then get a speeding ticket for going 63 in a 55 the next day, that doesn't harm the credibility of the state patrol because I didn't get caught all of the other times.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
If that guy has been pushing it to the limit for 33 races, he's not going to lose his job for getting caught on the 34th.
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Sure, understand it now. Can push it up to the limit of the rule, and if it’s over....they get caught it happens. Just tying to find speed and they went about it the wrong way t
 
Snappy D said:
Sure, understand it now. Can push it up to the limit of the rule, and if it’s over....they get caught it happens. Just tying to find speed and they went about it the wrong way t
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Yep. Now, if that spoiler guy does the same thing THIS weekend, then he'll deserve to ask if people want to Supersize their combos.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Yep. Now, if that spoiler guy does the same thing THIS weekend, then he'll deserve to ask if people want to Supersize their combos.
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But let’s be honest here the 4 guys are going to find some other way to squeeze out some speed to the limit of of some other rule. Right?
 
gnomesayin said:
The culture of NASCAR and.a lot of racing is such that it is a given that teams are always pushing the boundaries as much as the can. There are the rules as written, and there is rules enforcement, which are separate. For instance, if the pit road speed limit is 45 MPH, and NASCAR let's it be known there is a 5 MPH tolerance, teams will go 50, then 51, then 52, until they are penalized. If a rule states 2 inches with an 1/8" tolerance, what is the rule in practice? If a rule states a part should remain rigid and not flex, teams will figure how much flex they can get away with. That's the game.

There are a bunch of possible real world analogies to explain. If I get away with speeding down the interstate every day for a month, but then get a speeding ticket for going 63 in a 55 the next day, that doesn't harm the credibility of the state patrol because I didn't get caught all of the other times.
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along the same lines, many are saying if the car passes inspection at the beginning of the race that should be the only inspection..ha ha haa. Cars will be morphing into something else during the race the next time they hit the track. i think there is some of that going on now to be honest
 
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