Uh Oh...Cheater cheater pumpkin eater...L1 for the 4 team

I want to clarify that I'm not condoning cheating but I just find it amusing that some act like it is the first time it has ever happened. Tech will probably check the # 4 team pretty close next year but I don't think that will slow them down a bit and I bet they will win a lot of races in 2019. Time will tell.:)
 
Nitro Dude said:
Are there any big name teams that hasn't been caught cheating? I know Chad and JJ has been spanked a few times.:)
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It's part of NASCAR DNA.

But, when you get caught, especially with counterfeit parts that an organization has fabricated, then covered up -- you should be swiftly dealt with in a meaningful way -- full one year suspension for all parties involved to start. The 4 Team under a 2 year blanket probation where they pay the cost of additional random inspections. Team 4 vacates all 2018 Race Wins. DQ from the Chase.

I don't accept the argument that Cheaters can hold it hostage by arguing that harsh enforcement of the rules (no more slaps on the wrist, but actual life changing penalties for cheaters) leads to the destruction of NASCAR. MWR went under for their scandal, yet the NASCAR Jungle survived.

And I'm a Ford Fan (Hallelujah 2018 Ford program!) -- but this was simply unacceptable...
 
making judgements when you don't know the whole story isn't my thing. I'm sure Nascar will come up with something, they said they were going to. I'm also sure it won't be enough for some or too much for others depending on which team gets caught with the newer rules in place. As it was I believe they got a pretty maximum on the books penalty. Having three Gibbs cars Busch, Jones, and Hamlin (no Suarez) that the splitters were deemed illegal to start the race, and that very important part the splitter was supposed to be a part that was handed out by Nascar and the mounting positions were not to be tampered with period. And they were. all three of them. Not knowing the particulars of that either? No points removed and a 25 grand fine for everybody? I'm sure somebody will tell me how fair that one was.
 
Revman said:
In light of recent information, would you like to retract this post? This was more than a brand new car with an incorrectly mounted spoiler.
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This is the first I heard that. There is pushing the envelope a hair past the line and correcting that when you fail inspection you pull back. This ( if true) is downright fraudulent and they should have got the same fine MWR did when they got caught with the additive in the fuel.
I would say a 10 race suspension for the car chief and the crew chief and the #4 misses Daytona.
Of course the race they should have been forced to miss was Homestead.
 
StandOnIt said:
making judgements when you don't know the whole story isn't my thing. I'm sure Nascar will come up with something, they said they were going to. I'm also sure it won't be enough for some or too much for others depending on which team gets caught with the newer rules in place. As it was I believe they got a pretty maximum on the books penalty. Having three Gibbs cars Busch, Jones, and Hamlin (no Suarez) that the splitters were deemed illegal to start the race, and that very important part the splitter was supposed to be a part that was handed out by Nascar and the mounting positions were not to be tampered with period. And they were. all three of them. Not knowing the particulars of that either? No points removed and a 25 grand fine for everybody? I'm sure somebody will tell me how fair that one was.
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Very disappointing in how that turned out. See MWR penalty for altering fuel.
 
Revman said:
Consistent with @kyle18fan, Rice and Gille were suggesting that he be excluded from the Championship at that point. I have been consistent in my desire to allow the teams more freedom. However, understanding that MY Toyotas got screwed with the OSS this year while the Fords reaped huge rewards for not doing a damn thing, the fanboi part of me wants exclusion. What they did was not a cute "interpretation" of the rules or "pushing the envelope." What they did was fraudulent. Get your head around duplicating serial numbers on the spoiler to make it look like an approved part. Fanboi aside, I still wouldn't look for heads to roll, but when Rodney slaps NASCAR Nation on the other side of the face with the "no performance advantage" bull****, and then Delana's Wife hits NASCAR Nation again with his "I want my crew chief to be suspended" bull****, you begin to wonder if these guys need to go to the corner. If they had not found the spoiler, Delana's Wife becomes the Champion, and this whole season becomes a joke. So, to answer your question.....I think NASCAR did the only thing they could do. Slap on the wrist. Anything more would have been devastating for the sport. After the fact, I would hit Rodney and Delana's Wife hard for their arrogant ass comments relative to the fraud extremely hard. Maybe Rodney is off the box for the first 5 races next year, and Delana's Wife gets hit with a fine and points before the year even starts. There is something that this sport loves about a guy from Bakersfield. Tough guy bull****. He is thumbing his nose at the sport. Be clear....what they "accomplished" last year was a lie, and I am pissed that I pulled and strained for Kyle Busch to catch Delana's Wife's lap times when that wasn't possible with a legal car. Also hanging my head in shame for criticizing MY TRD powered Camry for underperforming when perhaps they were the best car all year long in hindsight. I do not like how this has been swept under the rug. I am not sure who pisses me off more....Delana's Wife for sticking the middle finger into the camera every chance he gets, or "humble down home boy" Rodney for his drawling description of his driver's excellence and his team's superiority.
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Wonderful work :salute:
 
Nascar had better be casting a close fish eye looking at Rodney's spoiler braces this year.
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Team Penske said:
This is the first I heard that. There is pushing the envelope a hair past the line and correcting that when you fail inspection you pull back. This ( if true) is downright fraudulent and they should have got the same fine MWR did when they got caught with the additive in the fuel.
I would say a 10 race suspension for the car chief and the crew chief and the #4 misses Daytona.
Of course the race they should have been forced to miss was Homestead.
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I respect your response. Doug Rice on Fast Talk (PRN Radio).
 
Nitro Dude said:
I want to clarify that I'm not condoning cheating but I just find it amusing that some act like it is the first time it has ever happened. Tech will probably check the # 4 team pretty close next year but I don't think that will slow them down a bit and I bet they will win a lot of races in 2019. Time will tell.:)
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I think there is a distinct difference between pushing the envelope, and what they did. Lots of time spent in doing this I suspect. The measure of the significance of what they did was their performance in Homestead. They went from dominant to ordinary. Both Rice and Gille noted the Homestead performance as eye opening. Moving forward, you will never be able to tell the significance of their cheating because the rules package will blow up comparisons. Finally, it is what it is, but when Rodney basically calls everybody an idiot because there wasn't a performance advantage and Delana's wife says that he wants his little buddy to keep on keeping on.....you have a team that hasn't gotten it. Bad optics as they say. Honestly, I wouldn't give a ****, but when you have a sanctioning body that is falling all over themselves and spending tons of money to inspect the **** out of these guys, you have an epic fail systemically. For whatever reason (NBC for sure), this didn't become a bigger story until Rice and Gille dug it up the other night, but this had the potential to really damage the series credibility which is already on the ropes. This wasn't a struggling team getting desperate, this was a very good team sticking it up the ass of fellow competitors, and the series in general.....and then in hindsight suggesting that they would do it all over again. For people obsessed with parity and fair play....
 
Revman said:
I think there is a distinct difference between pushing the envelope, and what they did. Lots of time spent in doing this I suspect. The measure of the significance of what they did was their performance in Homestead. They went from dominant to ordinary. Both Rice and Gille noted the Homestead performance as eye opening. Moving forward, you will never be able to tell the significance of their cheating because the rules package will blow up comparisons. Finally, it is what it is, but when Rodney basically calls everybody an idiot because there wasn't a performance advantage and Delana's wife says that he wants his little buddy to keep on keeping on.....you have a team that hasn't gotten it. Bad optics as they say. Honestly, I wouldn't give a sh!t, but when you have a sanctioning body that is falling all over themselves and spending tons of money to inspect the sh!t out of these guys, you have an epic fail systemically. For whatever reason (NBC for sure), this didn't become a bigger story until Rice and Gille dug it up the other night, but this had the potential to really damage the series credibility which is already on the ropes. This wasn't a struggling team getting desperate, this was a very good team sticking it up the ass of fellow competitors, and the series in general.....and then in hindsight suggesting that they would do it all over again. For people obsessed with parity and fair play....
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I agree with you that there is a difference between pushing the envelope and blatant cheating but I don't think it hurt their performance at Homestead near as much as you think it did. They were running really good until it turned dark and the track cooled down. I think they just missed the setup for the night session. I suspect that next year they will be on a mission to prove to everyone that they don't need to cheat to be dominant...and that could be bad for the other teams. Kyle was pretty dominant all year also but they weren't at Homestead where it counted the most. But, I love your enthusiasm.:)
 
Revman said:
I think there is a distinct difference between pushing the envelope, and what they did. Lots of time spent in doing this I suspect. The measure of the significance of what they did was their performance in Homestead...
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Hmmm -- what is SHR's budget for Cheating?

Especially since Harvick is calling for more of the same. Maybe the "audit" will reveal the numbers...
 
Nitro Dude said:
I agree with you that there is a difference between pushing the envelope and blatant cheating but I don't think it hurt their performance at Homestead near as much as you think it did. They were running really good until it turned dark and the track cooled down. I think they just missed the setup for the night session. I suspect that next year they will be on a mission to prove to everyone that they don't need to cheat to be dominant...and that could be bad for the other teams. Kyle was pretty dominant all year also but they weren't at Homestead where it counted the most. But, I love your enthusiasm.:)
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Harvick started back in the pack and it was total domination the first two stages of the race at homestead. Won the first stage easily and was coming to the line the second stage in first and didn't race Larson hard who was and finished second by a fender. Everybody was looking around wondering where KDB was? I thought after stage 2, looks like they found something screwy on the 18? Who knows? What happened? Did they give him Suarez's car by mistake? One can make a tin foil hat case for both IMO.
 
Nitro Dude said:
I agree with you that there is a difference between pushing the envelope and blatant cheating but I don't think it hurt their performance at Homestead near as much as you think it did. They were running really good until it turned dark and the track cooled down. I think they just missed the setup for the night session. I suspect that next year they will be on a mission to prove to everyone that they don't need to cheat to be dominant...and that could be bad for the other teams. Kyle was pretty dominant all year also but they weren't at Homestead where it counted the most. But, I love your enthusiasm.:)
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Nothing about their performance at Homestead indicated they lost speed due to the spoiler. Nothing.

Harvick hasn't led more than 79 laps at Homestead since 2014. Average finish of 2.6 with 47 laps led per race. He finished 3rd, leading 58 laps. Sounds about par for the course
 
Wrangler1 said:
Nothing about their performance at Homestead indicated they lost speed due to the spoiler. Nothing.

Harvick hasn't led more than 79 laps at Homestead since 2014. Average finish of 2.6 with 47 laps led per race. He finished 3rd, leading 58 laps. Sounds about par for the course
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Sounds about right to me but never get in the way of a good conspiracy or anyone with an agenda.
 
Nitro Dude said:
I agree with you that there is a difference between pushing the envelope and blatant cheating but I don't think it hurt their performance at Homestead near as much as you think it did. They were running really good until it turned dark and the track cooled down. I think they just missed the setup for the night session. I suspect that next year they will be on a mission to prove to everyone that they don't need to cheat to be dominant...and that could be bad for the other teams. Kyle was pretty dominant all year also but they weren't at Homestead where it counted the most. But, I love your enthusiasm.:)
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It doesn't take much IMO to go from dominant to fast. Really, Kyle didn't have much for the 4 all year. Consistently 1-2 tenths off. Was the spoiler worth that? I don't think they would have done what they did if it wasn't honestly. Next year will be meaningless in comparison to this year with the package changes. Thanks for appreciating my enthusiasm. I love this damn sport.
 
Wrangler1 said:
Nothing about their performance at Homestead indicated they lost speed due to the spoiler. Nothing.

Harvick hasn't led more than 79 laps at Homestead since 2014. Average finish of 2.6 with 47 laps led per race. He finished 3rd, leading 58 laps. Sounds about par for the course
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Thanks Rodney.
 
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Revman said:
Was the spoiler worth that? I don't think they would have done what they did if it wasn't honestly. Next year will be meaningless in comparison to this year with the package changes. Thanks for appreciating my enthusiasm. I love this damn sport.
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Were the fans that turned the wrong way last year worth that to the Toyotas? this can go on and on.
 
Like D.W. (Jaws) said a long time ago, "I don't have to tell you people who have been around for a while, cheating is a way of life in Nascar Grand National Racing". So grab your crotch like you like to say, grunt a couple of times and move on bud. Twinkle toes will have his chance next year, just like the rest of em will.
 
StandOnIt said:
Like D.W. (Jaws) said a long time ago, "I don't have to tell you people who have been around for a while, cheating is a way of life in Nascar Grand National Racing". So grab your crotch like you like to say, grunt a couple of times and move on bud. Twinkle toes will have his chance next year, just like the rest of em will.
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So, you aren't going to answer the question, right? I mean, I am all about letting them play. You are the one who ****s himself over parity and inspections. So, you are all good with what Rodney the Innocent and Delana's Wife who Knew Nothing did?
 
StandOnIt said:
I just did. What part of that do you not get?
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Mr. OSS good with the spoiler. Nothing screams fanboi more than that. Equating the splitter stuff with Rodney's spoiler does not represent the depth of knowledge I know you have about this sport well at all.
 
Revman said:
It doesn't take much IMO to go from dominant to fast. Really, Kyle didn't have much for the 4 all year.
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I guess all those races he won mean nothing or maybe your saying if Harvick wasn't cheating every race Kyle would have won 16 races??
Explain to me why Kyle didn't win the championship this year AGAIN.
 
Team Penske said:
I guess all those races he won mean nothing or maybe your saying if Harvick wasn't cheating every race Kyle would have won 16 races??
Explain to me why Kyle didn't win the championship this year AGAIN.
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Because Joey won it.
 
Who cheated more, who didn't really cheat, cheating is racing...

===

Bottom Line: On the Final Restart there was nothing between KyBu and the Cup Championship but the Checkered Flag.

Harvick's spoiler (either authentic or Rodney's version) was behind him.

All KyBu's pit road issues were behind him.

The 2018 Season was all behind KyBu except for that last short-run push for the Championship. KyBu leading to green, Truex with long-run late race set up, Logano with short-run late race set up, Harvick prevailing over the first 2 stages amongst the Final Four drivers.

High anxiety for closing out the season -- as a race fan I thought it was awesome!
 
Funny how your "facts" don't state anything about Penske winning 6 of the final 12 races. They peaked when it mattered.
 
Team Penske said:
I guess all those races he won mean nothing or maybe your saying if Harvick wasn't cheating every race Kyle would have won 16 races??
Explain to me why Kyle didn't win the championship this year AGAIN.
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They don't mean anything to me. Two of his races were encumbered, and the last of the two was egregious. Laughable that the Delana wife apologists mention Kyle Busch in almost every post I have made about this. For those who think Delana's wife was business as normal at Homestead, you weren't watching lap times. He wasn't what he had been, but you were hoping he was and I get that. Your guy lived a lie thanks to Rodney, and there is no question the driver was aware IMO.
 
StandOnIt said:
.

Were the fans that turned the wrong way last year worth that to the Toyotas? this can go on and on.
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Help me with this....Were any wins encumbered? Why do you reference the Toyotas to justify the laughable cheating that Rodney did? Would you do the same for the Toyotas had the shoe been on the other foot. You confuse me. You champion the OSS because it took away a Toyota advantage, but excuse away the blatant and proven cheating from the 4 team. If you would just acknowledge that you aren't interested in anything other than the Toyotas getting beat, then you would start to make sense. You won't, so you don't. Laughable.
 
Revman said:
Help me with this....Were any wins encumbered? Why do you reference the Toyotas to justify the laughable cheating that Rodney did? Would you do the same for the Toyotas had the shoe been on the other foot. You confuse me. You champion the OSS because it took away a Toyota advantage, but excuse away the blatant and proven cheating from the 4 team. If you would just acknowledge that you aren't interested in anything other than the Toyotas getting beat, then you would start to make sense. You won't, so you don't. Laughable.
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here ya go, help is on the way

Like D.W. (Jaws) said a long time ago, "I don't have to tell you people who have been around for a while, cheating is a way of life in Nascar Grand National Racing"
 
StandOnIt said:
here ya go, help is on the way

Like D.W. (Jaws) said a long time ago, "I don't have to tell you people who have been around for a while, cheating is a way of life in Nascar Grand National Racing"
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Your non-answer is your answer. If this is the case, why the hell did we ever do the OSS thing? I love you @StandOnIt! Don't ever change! Next year is going to be awesome.
 
Revman said:
Your non-answer is your answer. If this is the case, why the hell did we ever do the OSS thing? I love you @StandOnIt! Don't ever change! Next year is going to be awesome.
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who figured out the black color would help them get an edge, who figured out they weren't checking the spoiler. In your own words Bud... INNOVATION. Your problem is and it always is, your boys didn't find it.;)
 
StandOnIt said:
who figured out the black color would help them get an edge, who figured out they weren't checking the spoiler. In your own words Bud... INNOVATION. Your problem is and it always is, your boys didn't find it.;)
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So, they had an advantage? You are confusing yourself. I am all about letting them go, Mr. OSS.
 
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