Cup RACE thread --- Richmond

ChexOrWrex said:
So how can you hold it against him?

Thats like saying “Gordon wouldnt have won as much if Earnhardt and Allison didn’t die”.

Its not their fault and they excelled in the absense of other competition.
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How can it be held against Kyle that he won a bunch of XFINITY races that other Cup drivers ran but not all of them ran them? It's not Kyle's fault that they didn't. And it's not even Kyle who started this running XFINITY full time ****, that would be Kevin Harvick.\

NASCAR even wrote a rule designed explicitly to limit Kyle's participation. They even went out of their way to write it so Chase Elliott, Ryan Blaney and others could run those races.
 
Snappy D said:
I don’t get it either, Petty showed up raced against who he was scheduled to race and beat them. Was he supposed to look at the entry sheet, deem the competition raceable, if not and turn around an Go home? I don’t get crapping on Petty’s achievements. The same is starting to happen to Earnhardt as well when I hear people say “the competition wasn’t good then” (I’ve read it on these boards) well when was it good? Now? because it’s the only thing you see and know?
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Nailed it.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Aaaaaand that was the top competition of the time entered in the sanctioned race.
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He was supposed to figure out if 50 years later this would be considered good competition and then if it was race. If not say screw it and withdraw.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
How can it be held against Kyle that he won a bunch of XFINITY races that other Cup drivers ran but not all of them ran them? It's not Kyle's fault that they didn't. And it's not even Kyle who started this running XFINITY full time sh!t, that would be Kevin Harvick.
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Im not holding anything against Kyle. I’m able to understand differences in arguments and see the logical fallacy.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
So Kyle winning against Brad Keselowski, Carl Edwards and one other Cup driver at, I don't know, Iowa has less value than Richard Petty winning against just Ned Jarrett at Old Dominion Speedway?
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As prev stated by someone else, neither are less valuable than the other. Attempting to make the direct comparison is impossible based on the variables. Is it not acheivable to understand that both successes are close, if not equally, as impressive for their time?
 
BobbyFord said:
This is why it’s IMPOSSIBLE to compare the modern era to dinosaur racing.
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Well then stop trying to spin everything in your boy's direction.

You answered your own question, its always been hard to judge.

Andy, you can't say **** because Mark Martin was the original "bushwacker". That 60 Winn-Dixie car was a complete nightmare.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
So Kyle winning against Brad Keselowski, Carl Edwards and one other Cup driver at, I don't know, Iowa has less value than Richard Petty winning against just Ned Jarrett at Old Dominion Speedway?
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No..neither have value lol

Cup racing 80s and onward I think is what most people measure when it comes to driver vs driver.
 
Kiante said:
Well then stop trying to spin everything in your boy's direction.

You answered your own question, its always been hard to judge.

Andy, you can't say sh!t because Mark Martin was the original "bushwacker".
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I’m not spinning anything.
I’m arguing against the weak ass argument of the haters.
Yes, Mark was the original modern era Cup driver to run a bunch of Busch races. I enjoyed the hell out of that too :)
 
Kiante said:
Well then stop trying to spin everything in your boy's direction.

You answered your own question, its always been hard to judge.

Andy, you can't say sh!t because Mark Martin was the original "bushwacker". That 60 Winn-Dixie car was a complete nightmare.
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Mark Martin has more wins than Jimmie Johnson in the national series. The GOAT!!
 
ChexOrWrex said:
As prev stated by someone else, neither are less valuable than the other. Attempting to make the direct comparison is impossible based on the variables. Is it not acheivable to understand that both successes are close, if not equally, as impressive for their time?
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There's a reason confirmation bias is a fallacy in proving research in statistics.

I believe that fallacy can apply to any sort of analysis. Too many variables.

Carl Edwards won over 70 NASCAR races, Harvick, 100+. Harvick won a 500, a championship, Indy and 100+ NASCAR races. Why isn't he comparable to Pearson?
 
For the record, this b Kyle Busch GOAT vs not GOAT is completely pointless and unnecessary because all it REALLY does is take away an opportunity for us to appreciate Kyle's greatness for what it really is.

It always starts with his fans explaining why he is the GOAT, and then everyone else explaining why that isnt the case, instead of celebrating the reality of someone who will probably go down as a top 10, top 15 driver all time.

46 wins, and a championship in 14 years is legit, and youth on his side sets the bar pretty high. Kyle is probably a legit top 10 driver when all is said and done. The Tony's of NASCAR, DW tier? Cale? THIS is the stuff we should be talking about with Kyle and how can ANYONE take that as a knock on Kyle?

Instead, we are arguing GOAT vs not GOAT minimizing his actual greatness because of personalized takes.
 
When posters say NASCAR wins do you mean just Cup series? Or wins across Cup, trucks and Xfinity?
 
1. Everyone knows Jimmie is the GOAT, nobody has ever doubted nor said he’s washed
2. Kyle getting 200 wins is still a hell of an accomplishment, it’s 200 freaking races
3. Greg Biffle is the true GOAT
 
Snappy D said:
When posters say NASCAR wins do you mean just Cup series? Or wins across Cup, trucks and Xfinity?
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Cup wins for me.

Trucks/xfinity is good n all but everyone knows its either a feeder series into Cup or rejected drivers who couldnt make it/stay in Cup level.

Cup is the premier series.
 
jaqua19 said:
For the record, this b Kyle Busch GOAT vs not GOAT is completely pointless and unnecessary because all it REALLY does is take away an opportunity for us to appreciate Kyle's greatness for what it really is.

It always starts with his fans explaining why he is the GOAT, and then everyone else explaining why that isnt the case, instead of celebrating the reality of someone who will probably go down as a top 10, top 15 driver all time.

46 wins, and a championship in 14 years is legit, and youth on his side sets the bar pretty high. Kyle is probably a legit top 10 driver when all is said and done. The Tony's of NASCAR, DW tier? Cale? THIS is the stuff we should be talking about with Kyle and how can ANYONE take that as a knock on Kyle?

Instead, we are arguing GOAT vs not GOAT minimizing his actual greatness because of personalized takels.
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I agree 100%. He’s got a chance to be in the Tony/DW Tier. He’s already zoomed past Rusty, Mark Martin, Junior Johnson and Bill Elliott tier.
 
I just can't compare Petty with Kyle Busch. Richard raced in his era, Kyle is racing in his.
Just looking at Cup wins really doesn't tell me anything other than how many races each has won.
Different cars, different competition, different racing conditions at different tracks.
For me, Petty was the GOAT of his time. Kyle is well on the way to be the GOAT of his time.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I just can't compare Petty with Kyle Busch. Richard raced in his era, Kyle is racing in his.
Just looking at Cup wins really doesn't tell me anything other than how many races each has won.
Different cars, different competition, different racing conditions at different tracks.
For me, Petty was the GOAT of his time. Kyle is well on the way to be the GOAT of his time.
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Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon say otherwise DAB
 
Snappy D said:
I agree 100%. He’s got a chance to be in the Tony/DW Tier. He’s already zoomed past Rusty, Mark Martin, Junior Johnson and Bill Elliott tier.
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At this point I agree. Personally, I think Tony has his own place between the Rusty's/Bills and the DW's. Kyle is on that Tony tier.

Tony has the championships but not the wins to be with DW. Kyle will ultimately have the wins, or close to it. So right now, I have him right around there. Which is cool. We need another recent driver to have the impact JJ and Stewart have had.

It legitimizes the current era.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I just can't compare Petty with Kyle Busch. Richard raced in his era, Kyle is racing in his.
Just looking at Cup wins really doesn't tell me anything other than how many races each has won.
Different cars, different competition, different racing conditions at different tracks.
For me, Petty was the GOAT of his time. Kyle is well on the way to be the GOAT of his time.
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The tricky thing with Kyle is that, what is his "time". He came into cup around the time Stewart, Jr, Kenseth, Edwards, Johnson did. He IS part of that era. He won his first cup race before Johnson won a title. Then spend 14 years in that time span.

Now, that era is ending, and the Chase, Larson, Blaney age group era is beginning and Kyle is in the middle of his prime, with probably about another 4 seasons in it. So, which is *his* era?

The era he spent 14 years in? It's tough cause he was sooo young when he started.
 
jaqua19 said:
At this point I agree. Personally, I think Tony has his own place between the Rusty's/Bills and the DW's. Kyle is on that Tony tier.

Tony has the championships but not the wins to be with DW. Kyle will ultimately have the wins, or close to it. So right now, I have him right around there. Which is cool. We need another recent driver to have the impact JJ and Stewart have had.

It legitimizes the current era.
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Well this era until he hangs it up is JJ Era which would you say began in 2004,the first Chase Era?
 
jaqua19 said:
The tricky thing with Kyle is that, what is his "time". He came into cup around the time Stewart, Jr, Kenseth, Edwards, Johnson did. He IS part of that era. He won his first cup race before Johnson won a title. Then spend 14 years in that time span.

Now, that era is ending, and the Chase, Larson, Blaney age group era is beginning and Kyle is in the middle of his prime, with probably about another 4 seasons in it. So, which is *his* era?

The era he spent 14 years in? It's tough cause he was sooo young when he started.
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Great points.
 
We need more of these 20 somethings to speed up and challenge Truex, Busch, and Harvick.

The lack of competition at the front right now is glaring. Jimmie hasn't won in almost a year. Keselowski's only win in 30+ races was at Talladega with maybe 10 cars running at the end. Logano's last win was this race a year ago. 24 hasn't won since 2015. 88 hasn't won since 2015. Suarez replaced Edwards and hasn't done anything. Jones replaced Kenseth and hasn't done anything. Chase hasn't won. It's Truex, Harvick, KyBusch, and the field. Been that way for too long.
 
Unfortunately we never got to see Jeff or Jimmie drive anything other than HMS for any significant period of time. Team chemistry is a giant factor. In terms of GOAT I would absolutely rank Jeff above Jimmie.
There will never be a GOAT beyond somebody’s opinion. Way too many factors.
 
BobbyFord said:
Unfortunately we never got to see Jeff or Jimmie drive anything other than HMS for any significant period of time. Team chemistry is a giant factor. In terms of GOAT I would absolutely rank Jeff above Jimmie.
There will never be a GOAT beyond somebody’s opinion. Way too many factors.
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Can u answer this for me since u like to be honest I see.. if JJ is so great how is Chase Elliott running better than him? I asked this question and got a billion and one answers favoring the so called goat
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Can u answer this for me since u like to be honest I see.. if JJ is so great how is Chase Elliott running better than him? I asked this question and got a billion and one answers favoring the so called goat
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I think Chad is distracted with his marriage and I think Jimmie is winding down. Jimmie is still a great driver but his best years are behind him.
 
BobbyFord said:
I think Chad is distracted with his marriage and I think Jimmie is winding down. Jimmie is still a great driver but his best years are behind him.
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Ok have another question .. why don’t u think truex ever won on a short track ?
 
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