How will NASCAR enforce this?

The rules were broken, pretty simple. People don’t get to walk away from stuff that critical. There is no doubt they have a good team and fast car. That dip helped, and Nascar knows that. I just wonder if it gave too much, more than they expected, which led to it becoming obvious?

Reality is, every team is looking for an edge. Stretch the line...”take it to the limit”. I think it was a very clever idea. They were caught and now it’s time to pay the fiddler.
 
It's a fact of racing, that's what they do. Having a two year old fit works for some people, pretty childish IMO. Racing isn't for everyone. There have been teams caught cheating every year many times in every series. IMO many other sports cover up more than they find.
 
StandOnIt said:
The different material must be a big deal :idunno:

The car was also found to have an unapproved right-side rocker panel extension.
The panel extension was found to be made of steel instead of aluminum. A memo directing the change went out to series crew chiefs on Feb. 19.[/QU

Maybe lowering weight in the car?
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StandOnIt said:
I wish the R&D center would show what brace "broke" and what was up with the rocker panel extension.
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I've been saying this for years. Back in the day, Dick Beaty would take confiscated illegal parts and display them in the garage area for the whole world to see. No reason for NASCAR to not show us the offending parts and explain why and how they were illegal. Heck they put Penske's qualifying engines on display for the world to see one time, and those engines weren't even illegal!
 
I thought the same thing, I sure wish they would post a pic of the problem. Are they talking a couple of pounds or a heck of a lot more than that. That could make a pretty big difference if it is a big piece
 
StandOnIt said:
The different material must be a big deal :idunno:

The car was also found to have an unapproved right-side rocker panel extension.
The panel extension was found to be made of steel instead of aluminum. A memo directing the change went out to series crew chiefs on Feb. 19.
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The most interesting thing about the side skirts is that from Gluck's rule book post, those parts carry a Five Star Racing Products part number. If these part were made out of a different material, then they sure as heck weren't the rulebook mandated part, even if they were identical. To me, that's an even more serious infraction than the team using the wrong material for a regular part made in-house. When the sanctioning body gives you a mandated manufacturer's part number to use, there's not any room for interpretation there.
 
That was what I thought, the brace breaking..maybeee the benefit of a doubt, but when they found that part. That could turn back the speed if it weighs enough. Could be why they threw out the car chief, I would think that would be under his responsibilities building the cars.
 
gnomesayin said:
Jim Utter is a clown. There are several good reporters working the NASCAR beat. He's not one of them.

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What amazes me is that ANYBODY is surprised by what happened, especially anybody that spends more than five minutes around the sport. Teams push the envelope in any way they can, and sometimes they get caught. You take your penalty and move on. We can argue about whether the brace broke by accident or not, but as everybody was quick to point out when KB lost his wheel leaving pit road, illegal is illegal whether it is intentional or not. As for the side skirts, I'm curious to see how people try to explain that one away. When you build a part of the wrong material to duplicate a mandated part of different material, that goes pretty far beyond whoops.
 
StandOnIt said:
That was what I thought, the brace breaking..maybeee the benefit of a doubt, but when they found that part. That could turn back the speed if it weighs enough. Could be why they threw out the car chief, I would think that would be under his responsibilities building the cars.
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Car chief is responsible for the end product that takes to the track from what I understand. Same reason why the first couple of guys to fail qualifying or morning inspection this year had the car chief sent out.
 
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FLRacingFan said:
Car chief is responsible for the end product that takes to the track from what I understand. Same reason why the first couple of guys to fail qualifying or morning inspection this year had the car chief sent out.
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I always thought it was a bit strange to throw out the crew chief, he wasn't the one who physically cheated up the car in most instances.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
What BS? The car failed post-race inspection. It happens pretty frequently.

I guess it was also all clown show BS two weeks ago when the #78 couldn't get through pre-race, had to start at the back, and lost their car chief for the weekend. Funny, I don't remember hearing you scream about that injustice.
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#4 did'n flunk pre race or post inspection nothing was said right after the race or sunday night so that tells me the car passed and nascar is making up a bunch of bs to get in the headlines.
 
The car passed the things they check AT THE RACE TRACK. That's only PART of the inspection, and it's been that way for some time. The at track inspection post race is more of just a cursory inspection now. The REAL nitty gritty happens at the R&D center.
 
The crew chief is the person of record that is responsible for the car and the actions of the crew though. To quote Smooth Walker from Doctor Detroit, "I didn't say it was your FAULT. I said it was your PROBLEM. "
 
StandOnIt said:
It's a fact of racing, that's what they do. Having a two year old fit works for some people, pretty childish IMO. Racing isn't for everyone. There have been teams caught cheating every year many times in every series. IMO many other sports cover up more than they find.
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If it were not for cheating, Richard Petty wouldn't have 200 wins. And I'm betting he didn't get caught more than he did get caught. That's racin.....
 
Formerjackman said:
The crew chief is the person of record that is responsible for the car and the actions of the crew though. To quote Smooth Walker from Doctor Detroit, "I didn't say it was your FAULT. I said it was your PROBLEM. "
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Let’s just let it go. Harvick is the driver and was probably not in the loop with whatever happened. He drove the car and won the race regardless of the legal state of the car. No one cares if there was a steel part substituted for an aluminum one. There is no advantage to that. Likewise, a part broke on the window support. Maybe it was setup to fail, maybe not. No one cares except the rule book and toyota. Harvick owns Phoenix, so it’s all water under the bridge. Thanks for playing.
 
StandOnIt said:
No sheet, will the 4 ball still be fast after the cucumber?
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He still gets the win, just not the playoff points. The momentum will continue at Phoenix. Harvick owns that place, and a specious part failure on the rear backglass won’t make any difference at that track.
 
gnomesayin said:
Jim Utter is a clown. There are several good reporters working the NASCAR beat. He's not one of them.

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Jim Utter is another resident expert.

FLRacingFan said:
Biggest ******* around. Way worse than Moody, if such a thing were even possible. No idea how he’s employed.
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Same reason that Cowherd has his job. Hot takes get clicks. Clicks get impressions.
 
spindoc said:
He still gets the win, just not the playoff points. The momentum will continue at Phoenix. Harvick owns that place, and a specious part failure on the rear backglass won’t make any difference at that track.
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not so. The No. 4 team with driver Kevin Harvick won the race, but will not get the benefits of that win for the NASCAR Playoffs (a total of seven playoff points for winning the race and both stages). Harvick also won at Atlanta, which means he still is qualified for the postseason on the basis of that Atlanta win.
 
Conover said:
The rules were broken, pretty simple. People don’t get to walk away from stuff that critical. There is no doubt they have a good team and fast car. That dip helped, and Nascar knows that. I just wonder if it gave too much, more than they expected, which led to it becoming obvious?

Reality is, every team is looking for an edge. Stretch the line...”take it to the limit”. I think it was a very clever idea. They were caught and now it’s time to pay the fiddler.
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Yep. A failed support strap broke the rules. Any team would get the same result from NASCAR if a required part failed. Oh, and the steel skirt versus an aluminum one? It’s heavier and surely could not have provided an advantage.
 
StandOnIt said:
not so. The No. 4 team with driver Kevin Harvick won the race, but will not get the benefits of that win for the NASCAR Playoffs (a total of seven playoff points for winning the race and both stages). Harvick also won at Atlanta, which means he still is qualified for the postseason on the basis of that Atlanta win.
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You missed the point. He gets to keep the win, which puts him in the 100 win club across all NASCAR series. Don’t downplay that achievement.
 
spindoc said:
You missed the point. He gets to keep the win, which puts him in the 100 win club across all NASCAR series. Don’t downplay that achievement.
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you needed to say he keeps the win at Atlanta, he doesn't get to keep the win at Las Vegas
 
StandOnIt said:
if the steel skirt was roof high, yeah, but weight down low is what you want
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16 ounces at most between aluminum and steel. Keep trying.

StandOnIt said:
you needed to say he keeps the win at Atlanta, he doesn't get to keep the win at Las Vegas
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Yes. He keeps the win at Las Vegas. But he doesn’t get the 7 playoff points. Read the penalty.
 
Formerjackman said:
The crew chief is the person of record that is responsible for the car and the actions of the crew though. To quote Smooth Walker from Doctor Detroit, "I didn't say it was your FAULT. I said it was your PROBLEM. "
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Car chief is responsible for 100% of the setup on the car making sure everything is the way it is supposed to be when it hits the race track
 
StandOnIt said:
Car chief is responsible for 100% of the setup on the car making sure everything is the way it is supposed to be when it hits the race track
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Yes, but the crew chief is responsible for the car chief. I don't have a problem with them throwing out the car chief though, and in some cases, is probably a bigger penalty to the team than the crew chief.
 
spindoc said:
Let’s just let it go. Harvick is the driver and was probably not in the loop with whatever happened. He drove the car and won the race regardless of the legal state of the car. No one cares if there was a steel part substituted for an aluminum one. There is no advantage to that. Likewise, a part broke on the window support. Maybe it was setup to fail, maybe not. No one cares except the rule book and toyota. Harvick owns Phoenix, so it’s all water under the bridge. Thanks for playing.
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I couldn't disagree more about the side skirts. You don't make a part by hand (which is against the rules) when you can buy the legal part. You only do that if you are trying to improve the car in some way. How, I have no idea, but just like every square inch of those cars, everything is done for a REASON. NOTHING is done by chance or for the hell of it.
 
Watching radioactive it’s interesting to hear spotters saying Harvick was a running a line no one else could. Vegas is such a fast, sweeping track it’s hard to believe he could hook that bottom that well.

I’ll tell you this is one thing I’d watch out for in today’s low downforce rules, cheating cars can gain a very significant advantage on the field. The 4 had a completely unbeatable car due to the fact his mechanical grip was thru the roof
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Watching radioactive it’s interesting to hear spotters saying Harvick was a running a line no one else could. Vegas is such a fast, sweeping track it’s hard to believe he could hook that bottom that well.

I’ll tell you this is one thing I’d watch out for in today’s low downforce rules, cheating cars can gain a very significant advantage on the field. The 4 had a completely unbeatable car due to the fact his mechanical grip was thru the roof
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he was hooking the heck out of it at Atlanta also. This weekend is going to be interesting.
 
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