How will NASCAR enforce this?

ChexOrWrex said:
Lol what? Dude no. You said that it would not take original form, which it did and I pointed out another case on the same team’s car on it coming back to form.

Are you trying to score points here or be constructive?
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You are trying to compare apples to oranges. 180-200 mph velocity sustained for 4 hours at the junction of the roofline and the back windshield to Harvick pressing on the roof for leverage climbing out of the car(which btw, there is no brace present there)

What kind of points could I possibly be going after here? You are trying to avoid the elephant in the room and avoid the question, so again, how did Harvick totally dominate Atlanta with no brace breaking on the back windshield? Unless you have photos of the car doing that which I'm sure by now would be filling this page you guys are dreaming.
 
Spotter22 said:
You are trying to compare apples to oranges. 180-200 mph velocity sustained for 4 hours at the junction of the roofline and the back windshield to Harvick pressing on the roof for leverage climbing out of the car(which btw, there is no brace present there)

What kind of points could I possibly be going after here? You are trying to avoid the elephant in the room and avoid the question, so again, how did Harvick totally dominate Atlanta with no brace breaking on the back windshield? Unless you have photos of the car doing that which I'm sure by now would be filling this page you guys are dreaming.
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The first question is the title, thats the elephant in the room.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
The first question is the title, thats the elephant in the room.
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Let me answer it for you, Hes faster because they are better and it has nothing to do with the back windshield. They may get fined or they may not. Sometimes things break beyond your control but a rule is a rule.
 
I think Harvick is the best driver in the series. I don't like him personally. I think the #4 wins that race with or without whatever they were fooling with on the rear window. I'm interested in what they were doing and consider it innovative. If NASCAR has to write a new rule or make a new directive to stop it, it wasn't cheating. I think those who buy that it was accident without any skepticism are quite gullible.

One can hold several beliefs at once, even ones that don't fit into a narrow agenda.
 
Towmater said:
They aren't talking about the guy that won it. The fanbase is talking about the wavy back window he has when he moves at speed. Those are two different things.
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In the past few seasons NASCAR talk has centered around drama and the challenges facing NASCAR. I know there is a race thread each week and that could be where most of the talk about the actual race takes place.
 
gnomesayin said:
I think Harvick is the best driver in the series. I don't like him personally. I think the #4 wins that race with or without whatever they were fooling with on the rear window. I'm interested in what they were doing and consider it innovative. If NASCAR has to write a new rule or make a new directive to stop it, it wasn't cheating. I think those who buy that it was accident without any skepticism are quite gullible.

One can hold several beliefs at once, even ones that don't fit into a narrow agenda.
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Nailed it, again.

Also, I read on ESPN (grain of salt) that the NASCAR rulebook states that the rear window must be ridgid at all times.

If thats the case, the #4 team should be looking at a penalty. Although if they arent, it would fit NASCARs reputation for consistency.
 
gnomesayin said:
Trent Strunk is a JGR engineer, FWIW.

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I’ll take Trent’s statement as conclusive that the affect of the “event” did have a positive effect on performance.

Here’s another question; if this is standard Nascar bracing, why hasn’t it failed on other cars?

Also, was there any evidence of this at Atlanta? I presume not, since it was just evidenced at Vegas.
 
RF armchair engineer members
“This is not an advantage”

Actual NASCAR team engineer
“If it was allowed, we’d all do it”.

So much for that.
 
Spotter22 said:
Let me answer it for you, Hes faster because they are better and it has nothing to do with the back windshield. They may get fined or they may not. Sometimes things break beyond your control but a rule is a rule.
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Well, since somebody mentioned last year's tapegate, I'll say this. Elliott ran just as good, if not better AFTER getting caught with the tape, yet they were STILL playing with the tape. Just because they have been very fast does not suggest that the 4 car wasn't playing with the back window. The Patriots are year in and year out the best team in football, and yet they pull shady crap all the time. My experience has been that VERY LITTLE happens to these cars by chance.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
RF armchair engineer members
“This is not an advantage”

Actual NASCAR team engineer
“If it was allowed, we’d all do it”.

So much for that.
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Watch this video from bout the 2:30 mark on. Watch the air follow the contour of the car's back window. Anything that lowers the upper edge of that back window is going to put more air on that rear spoiler. Remember too, that instead of that big wing on the car in the video, the cars now have a VERY small rear spoiler. Even a small amount of extra air MIGHT make a big difference.

 
Formerjackman said:
Well, since somebody mentioned last year's tapegate, I'll say this. Elliott ran just as good, if not better AFTER getting caught with the tape, yet they were STILL playing with the tape. Just because they have been very fast does not suggest that the 4 car wasn't playing with the back window. The Patriots are year in and year out the best team in football, and yet they pull shady crap all the time. My experience has been that VERY LITTLE happens to these cars by chance.
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Right. Nothing ever breaks on a race car it always sinister. You got outran a lot didnt you?
 
Formerjackman said:
Watch this video from bout the 2:30 mark on. Watch the air follow the contour of the car's back window. Anything that lowers the upper edge of that back window is going to put more air on that rear spoiler. Remember too, that instead of that big wing on the car in the video, the cars now have a VERY small rear spoiler. Even a small amount of extra air MIGHT make a big difference.

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What bracing were they using? This video is years old and bracing rules have changed.
 
Formerjackman said:
Watch this video from bout the 2:30 mark on. Watch the air follow the contour of the car's back window. Anything that lowers the upper edge of that back window is going to put more air on that rear spoiler. Remember too, that instead of that big wing on the car in the video, the cars now have a VERY small rear spoiler. Even a small amount of extra air MIGHT make a big difference.

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It would make a big difference if it was a large spoiler. The gains would be much smaller with a small spoiler..there is a joke there somewhere.
 
Any remember Tony's postrace interview? He went through the typical yada yada thanks to the guys back at the shop, but he put a lot of emphasis on the fab/body shop guys. They probably hit on something good but pushed it too far in this case; no one would put something out there that obvious on purpose. Whether that's worth a hefty penalty or not, I'm thankful isn't for me to decide.
 
Spotter22 said:
What bracing were they using? This video is years old and bracing rules have changed.
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What difference does THAT make? The air follows the contour of the rear window. ANYTHING that allows that air to get down to the deck lid faster is going to put more air on the spoiler, whether it happens by chance or by design. Anytime something breaks on a car that will HELP it, I'm gonna assume that somebody caused it.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
RF armchair engineer members
“This is not an advantage”

Actual NASCAR team engineer
“If it was allowed, we’d all do it”.

So much for that.
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Armchair engineer? Ive got 30 years in, what do you have? That team engineer(the one whos getting his ass handed to him) also said if he was "allowed" to do it which means he is not, What makes you think the 4 is doing something that everyone in racing knows is not allowed yet would do it in plain view of everyone?
 
Formerjackman said:
What difference does THAT make? The air follows the contour of the rear window. ANYTHING that allows that air to get down to the deck lid faster is going to put more air on the spoiler, whether it happens by chance or by design. Anytime something breaks on a car that will HELP it, I'm gonna assume that somebody caused it.
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What differsnce does the bracing make? Did you say you were in racing? Did you run cup or are you talking late models? Seriously I find that statement by you odd
 
2 Sweet said:
I don't know how they did it, but I know I would have waited until the playoffs to pull it out
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Don't get caught and you rack up a bunch of playoff points like Truex and virtually lock yourselves into Homestead. Get caught and you have the rest of the season to come up with something else instead of being SOL in the middle of the playoffs. Especially considering the general perception that the Fords would be behind this year, I can see why they would do something.
 
If they can pass it off as a broken part, YES. As has been mentioned, with "legal" win already in the bank, what do they have to lose? If you get away with it, great. If you get caught, so what?
 
Spotter22 said:
What differsnce does the bracing make? Did you say you were in racing? Did you run cup or are you talking late models? Seriously I find that statement by you odd
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I guess I'm just too dense to figure out what point you're trying to make about the bracing. Maybe you can explain it to me. All I know is that the back of the roof and the rear window are not SUPPOSED to bow down, and if they do, for whatever reason, that is likely to be an advantage. As for the cars I worked on, former Winston Cup cars. Bud Moore, Petty Enterprises, Roush, HMS, even a car that was supposedly built for Alan Kulwicki.
 
Spotter22 said:
What differsnce does the bracing make? Did you say you were in racing? Did you run cup or are you talking late models? Seriously I find that statement by you odd
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might be because Childers said that was the problem. a brace.
 
Formerjackman said:
I guess I'm just too dense to figure out what point you're trying to make about the bracing. Maybe you can explain it to me. All I know is that the back of the roof and the rear window are not SUPPOSED to bow down, and if they do, for whatever reason, that is likely to be an advantage. As for the cars I worked on, former Winston Cup cars. Bud Moore, Petty Enterprises, Roush, HMS, even a car that was supposedly built for Alan Kulwicki.
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Arca cars. The point im making is in the video you are pointing to with the window bowing, the rules of bracing have changed significantly since that car and nobody really knows what they had in the interior.
 
OK, NOW I get it. I am NOT suggesting that the car in the video has the roof or window bowing down. As far as I can tell, they are NOT. My point was simply that with the way the air follows the contour of the roof and window, lowering the roof at that point WOULD put more air on the spoiler. Enough to matter? Beats me, but at least one Cup crew Chief thought a piece of tape on the spoiler was worth the effort.
 
Formerjackman said:
OK, NOW I get it. I am NOT suggesting that the car in the video has the roof or window bowing down. As far as I can tell, they are NOT. My point was simply that with the way the air follows the contour of the roof and window, lowering the roof at that point WOULD put more air on the spoiler. Enough to matter? Beats me, but at least one Cup crew Chief thought a piece of tape on the spoiler was worth the effort.
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Ok but we actually had a video of that crew putting Tape on the blade and getting caught, the brace breaking, not so much.
 
Well, it looks like there's been no announcement from NASCAR about penalties for Happy & Co. I guess the car passed tech @ the R&D Center with no issues found. In the meantime, new pictures have surfaced of some secret testing by the #4 team prepping for the 2018 season. Looks like things may get a little out of hand around here before this all blows over.

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dpkimmel2001 said:
Well, it looks like there's been no announcement from NASCAR about penalties for Happy & Co. I guess the car passed tech @ the R&D Center with no issues found. In the meantime, new pictures have surfaced of some secret testing by the #4 team prepping for the 2018 season. Looks like things may get a little out of hand around here before this all blows over.

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Freaky Man !!!
 
Formerjackman said:
Watch this video from bout the 2:30 mark on. Watch the air follow the contour of the car's back window. Anything that lowers the upper edge of that back window is going to put more air on that rear spoiler. Remember too, that instead of that big wing on the car in the video, the cars now have a VERY small rear spoiler. Even a small amount of extra air MIGHT make a big difference.

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I dont think someone has to have an aerodynamics degree to understand that where the sheetmetal and window flexed and the contour it created dumped a significant amount of air onto the right side of the spoiler creating more downforce.

That flexing was obvious since practice, so if the team wanted to fix it due to it being a detriment to speed, they would have.
 
Formerjackman said:
Watch this video from bout the 2:30 mark on. Watch the air follow the contour of the car's back window. Anything that lowers the upper edge of that back window is going to put more air on that rear spoiler. Remember too, that instead of that big wing on the car in the video, the cars now have a VERY small rear spoiler. Even a small amount of extra air MIGHT make a big difference.

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kenny wallace just explained on sirius xm nascar radio that the window being inward like that it gave the 4 team a hell of alot of downforce!! he said he been racing for a long time and he knows for sure that it did!
 
Formerjackman said:
If they can pass it off as a broken part, YES. As has been mentioned, with "legal" win already in the bank, what do they have to lose? If you get away with it, great. If you get caught, so what?
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Exactly. It isn't like NASCAR is going to take away the win. Points? Maybe, but NEVER a win.
 
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