NASCAR Death Bed

Towmater said:
The post you replied to states much of the fan base. It doesn't state all of it. However, if you want an answer then this might apply:

Stop looking to the glory days for answers. The world has changed. Younger people aren't looking to spend 8 to 48 hours at an event like they did in the past. The other major sports have figured out that people like scoring, i.e., excitement, and a shorter window that the crowds that attend the event are required to spend there to watch it.

Of course, someone will chime in with a "Thanks, that the 2000 time we've heard that" comment. Which I always laugh at - if you've heard it that much their must be at least a sliver of truth in it and ain't it funny that the "smart people" don't want to implement it cause "that ain't the way we've always done it". Guess what, "that ain't the way we've always done it" ain't working and hasn't worked in a long time.
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How would we know it won't work? What worked in the past hasn't been tried in 20 years. Maybe, just maybe some of those things would appeal to the new fans.
1 example that may get fans watching races on TV is "show the race" with announcers being voice overs. The second thing to try would be to cut back on the number of booth personnel, shoot for quality not quantity. Right now the booth and the commercials are the show and the race is simple a by product to be shown occasionally.
 
Towmater said:
The limitation I sought was not allowing coolers with beer to be brought in, and serving only in certain areas. Did you miss that? That caused that type of reply. ROFLMAO.
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I don't get to live races but have read many times in the past on forums how the tracks have limited the amount of alcohol one can bring in.
 
Racing in plans for new Rock: owners say it will ‘flex’ to hold all types of events

Dan Lovenheim, majority owner of Rockingham Properties LLC, confirmed Saturday that racing would be an “integral part” of what he and his co-owners had in store for their new property, which will be known as the Rock Entertainment Complex.

https://www.yourdailyjournal.com/ne...-say-it-will-flex-to-hold-all-types-of-events
 
I think the thing you are all missing, is the person that has been in charge during the decline is gone. That means someone that actually likes racing is in charge again. As for what they do to change the situation, I don't know. I do feel that what they attempt will be better thought out than before. I have hope they can now turn this around. That's much better than waiting for the next disaster without any hope.
 
Yogisd1 said:
I think the thing you are all missing, is the person that has been in charge during the decline is gone. That means someone that actually likes racing is in charge again. As for what they do to change the situation, I don't know. I do feel that what they attempt will be better thought out than before. I have hope they can now turn this around. That's much better than waiting for the next disaster without any hope.
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good point, I bet many are breathing a sigh of relief not having to deal with Brian's eccentric at best behavior and his bright ideas.
 
Hey, FRR is closing. Unbelievable, but everything is A-oK in the world of NASCAR. LMAO.

Team Penske said:
How would we know it won't work? What worked in the past hasn't been tried in 20 years. Maybe, just maybe some of those things would appeal to the new fans.
1 example that may get fans watching races on TV is "show the race" with announcers being voice overs. The second thing to try would be to cut back on the number of booth personnel, shoot for quality not quantity. Right now the booth and the commercials are the show and the race is simple a by product to be shown occasionally.
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I agree with you about the commercials. NASCAR would have to be willing to take a big hit on the money paid in and put it in the contract how many could be run during a race. IMO, that along with shortening the race to a 120 minute run time would help a great deal.

Surprise, surprise the ratings fell at Darlington too. The overnights were a 1.5 down from a 1.7 last year. Seems like the ratings are the only thing too tough to tame.
 
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Towmater said:
Also, I love to get hyperlinks to the track attendance records you reference.
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I didn't reference any attendance records. It is up to you to support your argument if you wish, not on people who don't think your argument holds weight. I did point out that several tracks previously had stricter disallowance of outside beverages and coolers at the main gates, and starting loosening policies to allow coolers or larger coolers after demand and ticket sales fell. This occurred primarily in 2011 and 2012, when tracks such as Kansas, Chicagoland, Phoenix, and Michigan began advertising more lenient policies. Attendance data is generally available for years up until 2013.
 
Yogisd1 said:
I think the thing you are all missing, is the person that has been in charge during the decline is gone. That means someone that actually likes racing is in charge again. As for what they do to change the situation, I don't know. I do feel that what they attempt will be better thought out than before. I have hope they can now turn this around. That's much better than waiting for the next disaster without any hope.
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Do you know that for a fact, it could be worse....just saying.
 
Snappy D said:
Which sucks because my first car was a 87 Grand National 2nd Car 05 Pontiac GTO and I’m hoping to get a CamaroZL1in the future! I’m 33....people from my generation and younger have zero use for muscle cars. That’s a huge problem for racing I would say
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Yeah, the young ones around here all have teensy little cars that have the "fast and furious" package -- little spoilers and lots of noise.

All the true muscle cars are owned by middle-aged(or older) men.
 
Snappy D said:
Which sucks because my first car was a 87 Grand National 2nd Car 05 Pontiac GTO and I’m hoping to get a CamaroZL1in the future! I’m 33....people from my generation and younger have zero use for muscle cars. That’s a huge problem for racing I would say
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what young kid could afford a new what they call a muscle car, and then when they get to the insurance part being under 25 they will pay almost as much as the car in 5 years. The deck is stacked before the cards are dealt. And that kinda takes the want out of the thing.
 
Snappy D said:
Which sucks because my first car was a 87 Grand National
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That big twin turbo 3.8 V6 was a nice compromise between pure muscle and tuner. 25 years later Ford was touting their turbo 1.5 liter eco-boost engines as the wave of the future. Now Infinity is doing the same thing. I still can't figure how GM missed that boat.
 
You inferred that ticket sales fell in the 2000's at tracks that implemented harsher alcohol policies and then reversed course due to them doing that. We all know that attendance started falling in NASCARland at that same time and has continued to fall. You made a correlation or attempted to make one without backing up what you stated. If you can provide track data that shows those track that reverse that policy slowed their attendance decline, reversed it, or can show that they continued at the same pace as other tracks that never change their alcohol policies then I'll go along with what you stated. However, all the tracks appear to have had attendance issues based upon the eyeball test and them ripping out setting to make it appear they are filled or putting tarps over sections no longer being filled by the paying public. Thus, we don't know if either of our ideas is correct, or way off base.

(I asked for the hyperlinks to track attendance data because I was interested in how much those figures show the attendance has fallen in the last 2 decades. It appears you can't provide it and as I suspected isn't public information).
 
StandOnIt said:
what young kid could afford a new what they call a muscle car, and then when they get to the insurance part being under 25 they will pay almost as much as the car in 5 years. The deck is stacked before the cards are dealt. And that kinda takes the want out of the thing.
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I'm a recently early retired old guy. I am comfortable financially. I decided to look for a new Challenger. I've wanted one since the 70's but buying an original model is out of the question unless you have $100k. Anyway, after the initial sticker shock of a brand new one (around $50k) I bought a 2009 RT that is in great shape. Here in Canada it's still $20k. Insurance on this seldom driven car (clean record, old guy) is $800 a year.

No chance a youngun could afford this.
 
kk5fan said:
I'm a recently early retired old guy. I am comfortable financially. I decided to look for a new Challenger. I've wanted one since the 70's but buying an original model is out of the question unless you have $100k. Anyway, after the initial sticker shock of a brand new one (around $50k) I bought a 2009 RT that is in great shape. Here in Canada it's still $20k. Insurance on this seldom driven car (clean record, old guy) is $800 a year.

No chance a youngun could afford this.
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in comparison, I bought a 4 year old GTO and it was slick, when I was a senior in high school and made the payments with a part time job sacking groceries. Not happening in our "strong" economy today.
 
StandOnIt said:
in comparison, I bought a 4 year old GTO and it was slick, when I was a senior in high school and made the payments with a part time job sacking groceries. Not happening in our "strong" economy today.
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OK, but just to keep things in perspective, that GTO, (like my Chevelle) is a primitive crude piece of machinery, and in that era, at four years old was considered half way to the scrap yard. The equivalent car of today would likely be 8-10 years old and have 100-120,000 miles on it, if well maintained would have quite a bit of life left in it, and probably does everything except wipe your butt for you. When I was kid in the 70's and well into the 80's we considered vehicles, especially trucks, ready the scrap heap at 100,000 miles, or in my case, something my dad gave me to tinker with because it was only worth about $150 (1969 Chevy C-10). In contrast, my beater S-10 is about to turn 20, has nearly 180,000 miles on it, still runs like it was new, and even with the rust I could sell it tomorrow for about $2000. When I bought my Chevelle in 1988, it was 16 years old, and was looked at as an antique from a bygone era. Now half the people I know have at least one vehicle that old.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I have 1998 Ford Ranger with 195K --- still runs like a top. Most money ever spent on it was on a front end job about 4 years ago --- at 192K.
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You lucky Texans don't have to deal with all of that rust we get in Indiana. I could keep my trucking running mechanically forever, but at some point the body will vaporize. Whatever they are using on the roads around here seems to be more aggressive than ever. At work, we're even having the differential housings on our semis rust out and begin leaking gear oil.
 
Formerjackman said:
You lucky Texans don't have to deal with all of that rust we get in Indiana. I could keep my trucking running mechanically forever, but at some point the body will vaporize. Whatever they are using on the roads around here seems to be more aggressive than ever. At work, we're even having the differential housings on our semis rust out and begin leaking gear oil.
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pretty much screws your perception on how long a car last old or new. ;) Living in Arkansas at the time, there wasn't salt on the roads or rust out problems.
 
StandOnIt said:
pretty much screws your perception on how long a car last old or new. ;) Living in Arkansas at the time, there wasn't salt on the roads or rust out problems.
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Maybe, but realistically, how long did people keep cars back then? In the 60's a four year old car was considered kind of old, even if it still looked good. 5-7 year old cars at least around here often sold for well below $1000.00. Until my grandfather retired, he never kept a new car longer than three years, and he most certainly didn't have a lot of money. My dad, who graduated from high school in 1961 and worked in a factory bought FIVE new cars and trucks between 1962 and 1970, all the while getting married, building a house and having a kid. .
 
Formerjackman said:
Maybe, but realistically, how long did people keep cars back then? In the 60's a four year old car was considered kind of old, even if it still looked good. 5-7 year old cars at least around here often sold for well below $1000.00. Until my grandfather retired, he never kept a new car longer than three years, and he most certainly didn't have a lot of money. My dad, who graduated from high school in 1961 and worked in a factory bought FIVE new cars and trucks between 1962 and 1970, all the while getting married, building a house and having a kid. .
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like I said your perception is pretty screwed, but probably made sense where you lived. Cars would rust out by then up in the rust belt.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Yeah, the young ones around here all have teensy little cars that have the "fast and furious" package -- little spoilers and lots of noise.

All the true muscle cars are owned by middle-aged(or older) men.
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Even a lot of the Mustangs/Camaros/Challengers/Chargers that are being sold now are of the 4 and 6 cylinder variety. Not a bad deal if you can live without the V-8 rumble. The 4-cylinder Mustangs make 310 horsepower now, that's more than the GT's we're putting out just a decade ago.

We just bought a Lincoln MKC with the smaller EcoBoost turbo-4 a couple months ago, and even that engine has enough power to throw you back in the seat if you lay into it.
 
ToyYoda said:
Even a lot of the Mustangs/Camaros/Challengers/Chargers that are being sold now are of the 4 and 6 cylinder variety. Not a bad deal if you can live without the V-8 rumble. The 4-cylinder Mustangs make 310 horsepower now, that's more than the GT's we're putting out just a decade ago.

We just bought a Lincoln MKC with the smaller EcoBoost turbo-4 a couple months ago, and even that engine has enough power to throw you back in the seat if you lay into it.
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around 300 HP for a six in a Mustang and with a 6 speed they are pretty quick.
 
My parents bought ( well really my dad) bought the GN for me when I was 16. I had to get a job though and pay the insurance but it was under his name ( the car and Insurance.) When I was 23 I saved everything I had working in college and then had money left over from various other things ( grad parties, birthday parties from when I was a kid. I didnt spend a dime. I was raised cheap as they say) to put a chunk down on the GTO and again my father put the insurance in his name just had to make the payments. Would I let a 16 year old male drive a GN or a 23 year old drive a GTO... hell no. But I understand what you are saying, its not easy to get these cars now a days.
 
BobbyFord said:
Who sticks around til the 7th inning?
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People that value the sporting event more than beating the traffic. Whether it be NASCAR, MLB, NFL, NCAA or the minor league hockey, I cannot in my life EVER recall leaving a sporting event before it ended. When I go to a sporting event, how early I have to leave to get there, or when I get home never even enters my mind.
 
Formerjackman said:
People that value the sporting event more than beating the traffic. Whether it be NASCAR, MLB, NFL, NCAA or the minor league hockey, I cannot in my life EVER recall leaving a sporting event before it ended. When I go to a sporting event, how early I have to leave to get there, or when I get home never even enters my mind.
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Baseball bores the crap out of me. I went to one game, never again.
 
Formerjackman said:
People that value the sporting event more than beating the traffic. Whether it be NASCAR, MLB, NFL, NCAA or the minor league hockey, I cannot in my life EVER recall leaving a sporting event before it ended. When I go to a sporting event, how early I have to leave to get there, or when I get home never even enters my mind.
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I tried watching an Arizona Coyotes game (by myself) in Phoenix before NASCAR in 2016. I guess I could have stuck around, but I wasn't interested. Guess that's hockey in America these days though. Probably an ignorance towards hockey, but it just didn't seem entertaining that night.
 
AuzGrams said:
I tried watching an Arizona Coyotes game (by myself) in Phoenix before NASCAR in 2016. I guess I could have stuck around, but I wasn't interested. Guess that's hockey in America these days though. Probably an ignorance towards hockey, but it just didn't seem entertaining that night.
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We have an EXCELLENT minor league hockey team in Fort Wayne, they are championship contenders basically every year. I'm not a hockey guy, can't skate to save my life, but on the rare occasions I see a game, I thoroughly enjoy it.
 
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