William Byron is the best driver in NASCAR

StandOnIt said:
You obviously have
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Yeah right. Yeah, I was pissed, but I didn't suggest a come to Jesus meeting to make it stop. Look where Ross finished last year, and look at where he is now. Here's the newsflash....It's ****** working.
 
Revman said:
Yeah right. Yeah, I was pissed, but I didn't suggest a come to Jesus meeting to make it stop. Look where Ross finished last year, and look at where he is now. Here's the newsflash....It's ****** working.
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I can't argue that, never have. It will be interesting to see how it comes out because it isn't over.
 
Revman said:
I am being a smartass.....but we are all biased man.
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Some way more than others tho. I’ve had drivers I dislike get wrecked before, and I’ll admit sometimes I cheered it, but only when I knew the reason behind it. But say if Chase, my favorite driver, dumped Denny, one of my least favorites for no reason, who’s side do you think I will be on?
 
Blaze said:
Yeah the context of it isn’t great I’ll admit lol. But I meant it in this way. Him being a complete idiot and saying it, which again completely dumb of him, got him released. Which then he ended up at HMS, where he had one hell of a season and won the championship. So him being a dumbass basically landed him the best ride he ever had.
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I'd like to think that he would trade all of his success for not having said that and rotting at Ganassi. The Felon--and Chevy--gave him a shot when nobody else would....it's up to each fan to make up their own minds about the ethics of that. I get your intent....the impact of those words though....but I trust you get what I am saying.
 
Revman said:
I'd like to think that he would trade all of his success for not having said that and rotting at Ganassi. The Felon--and Chevy--gave him a shot when nobody else would....it's up to each fan to make up their own minds about the ethics of that. I get your intent....the impact of those words though....but I trust you get what I am saying.
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I definitely get what you’re saying, and I wish i worded what I said better for sure. I’m sure if he could take it back he would.

But hey, since I don’t call Joe “The Preacher.” When I’m talking to you, can you not call Rick the Felon when talking to me? Since I know you only do it because of people calling Joe that.
 
Blaze said:
Some way more than others tho. I’ve had drivers I dislike get wrecked before, and I’ll admit sometimes I cheered it, but only when I knew the reason behind it. But say if Chase, my favorite driver, dumped Denny, one of my least favorites for no reason, who’s side do you think I will be on?
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The tow truck driver’s? :pbjtime:
 
Blaze said:
That's basically what he was driving at CGR, and let's be honest, Larson won a few times but wasn't lighting the world on fire. Probably be around 7, 8 wins, maybe 9 and no championship right now if not for the move to HMS. Crazy to think him saying the N word might be thing he ever did for his career. That's not to say Larson isn't talented, because he is, but let's not act like he'd be doing what he's doing if he didn't have the car to help him show it.
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Regardless of what he said, wasn’t it known Larson was pretty much gone to HMS at the end of 20? Maybe SHR and Ford would have tried to get him but JG was the one pushing for it even before Larson got launched at CGR
 
Blaze said:
But hey, since I don’t call Joe “The Preacher.” When I’m talking to you, can you not call Rick the Felon when talking to me? Since I know you only do it because of people calling Joe that.
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You got it.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Regardless of what he said, wasn’t it known Larson was pretty much gone to HMS at the end of 20? Maybe SHR and Ford would have tried to get him but JG was the one pushing for it even before Larson got launched at CGR
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I think SHR wanted him, but Ford wasn't having it.
 
It was fairly obvious that Byron wasn't going to learn anything racing in XFinity or Trucks when he was mopping up there and he needed to get to Cup. As a modern stock car driver, he's absolutely someone skilled enough to be the best on a week to week basis specifically in those types of cars whether we're talking late models (I saw him run IRP last year during the Indy/NASCAR weekend; finished second to Erik Jones) or whether we're talking Cup.

Is he the best overall driver in either series? Well, that's a different question. Bell and Larson are clearly two drivers who if they were full time racing in another random professional oval series in the US in a separate arm of motorsports, you could realistically expect either to be near or at the front in terms of points/money. Stenhouse is probably close to that as well. Allmendinger probably could in a road racing context but it's not like there's a great body of work to examine outside stock cars in many years. Austin Dillon, oddly enough to me, is a legitimate contender for a guy who could race another thing (specifically dirt late models or big block modifieds) and be very successful and make good money. Most of the rest of the field, Byron included, has concentrated on pavement oval racing in stock cars for the simple and obvious reason that nothing pays better in the United States at the top level, and they just don't have the credentials or the displayed ability for any other discipline. Chase Elliott and Alex Bowman are obviously nowhere near elite dirt guys for example; I guess you could argue for Tanner Grey being a cross discipline guy with a track record of success but Tanner's not in Cup last I checked though I'm sure his dad will eventually cut a large enough check to merit a full season.
 
Revman said:
I'd like to think that he would trade all of his success for not having said that and rotting at Ganassi. The Felon--and Chevy--gave him a shot when nobody else would....it's up to each fan to make up their own minds about the ethics of that. I get your intent....the impact of those words though....but I trust you get what I am saying.
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They used to say that Yogi Berra was a guy who could fall into a sewer and come out wearing a gold watch. I think that describes Larson's situation perfectly. Whether he would trade it all though? You would have to ask him. I am also still unclear on exactly HOW LONG Kyle's life was supposed to be ruined by one moment of poor judgement? One half a season, one season, five seasons? What number would placate you? When the discussion was about Ty Gibbs, all you seemed interested in was redemption and forgiveness. Does Kyle not deserve any of this? I say this as somebody that despite his awesome talent, I am not now nor was I ever a Larson guy, and it would have suited me JUST FINE if someone else had signed him. That being said, I'll defend him when I feel it's warranted.
 
Larson, Bell, Busch, Reddick. My top 4 wheelmen. I think they are they best at driving darn near anything they would get in. Byron and Logano are neck and neck for 5th.
 
Blaze said:
I definitely get what you’re saying, and I wish i worded what I said better for sure. I’m sure if he could take it back he would.

But hey, since I don’t call Joe “The Preacher.” When I’m talking to you, can you not call Rick the Felon when talking to me? Since I know you only do it because of people calling Joe that.
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I don't like either one of them. Can I call Joe "The Preacher" and Rick "The Felon"?
 
Formerjackman said:
I am also still unclear on exactly HOW LONG Kyle's life was supposed to be ruined by one moment of poor judgement?
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I have a dear friend who would tell you that if you have to ask, you don't get it. I will leave it at that.
 
How many Championships will he win is the question. Smart kid, he gets what he can. he don't drive over his head and he don't make to many enemies .
 
LibertyU24 said:
How many Championships will he win is the question. Smart kid, he gets what he can. he don't drive over his head and he don't make to many enemies .
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I am halfway through Actions Detrimental......and I am impressed as hell. Good dude. Wrong team.....kidding....kind of. ;)
 
The felon snatched Byron and his crew chief Rudy Fugle from the grasp of the preacher, plugged them in to the Hendrick way and the rest is history.
 
LibertyU24 said:
How many Championships will he win is the question. Smart kid, he gets what he can. he don't drive over his head and he don't make to many enemies .
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You can't pencil any of these guys in for championships anymore unfortunately. 1 bad race or a couple of mediocre races in the final 10 is all it takes to ruin an entire season. Best William can do is focus on racking up as many race wins as he can. That alone will give him a noteworthy career.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
You can't pencil any of these guys in for championships anymore unfortunately. 1 bad race or a couple of mediocre races in the final 10 is all it takes to ruin an entire season. Best William can do is focus on racking up as many race wins as he can. That alone will give him a noteworthy career.
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Either way as far as “wrong team”, as talented as he obviously is, who knows how he would have ended up elsewhere. Even @Revman has to admit he couldn’t do much better for a mentor then Jeff F’in Gordon taking him under his wing…,
 
AdoubleU24 said:
You can't pencil any of these guys in for championships anymore unfortunately. 1 bad race or a couple of mediocre races in the final 10 is all it takes to ruin an entire season. Best William can do is focus on racking up as many race wins as he can. That alone will give him a noteworthy career.
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NASCAR fans are the only sports fanbase that devalues their own championship. There are a lot of drivers who lost a championship because of "1 bad race or a couple of mediocre races." That's not a product of the playoffs.
 
The Nature Boy said:
NASCAR fans are the only sports fanbase that devalues their own championship. There are a lot of drivers who lost a championship because of "1 bad race or a couple of mediocre races." That's not a product of the playoffs.
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Except that back in the old days, you had all season to make up for a bad race or two. Now, if that bad race or two happens at the wrong moment, what you did the rest of the season makes no difference. If you can win the first 35 races, finish second in the 36th and lose the championship, there is something BADLY flawed about the system. I think the current system is going to give us a boatload of random one and two time champions, likely not four, five six or seven time champions. Being great no longer gets it done. Being great at EXACTLY the right time is what matters. Phoenix not your best track? Too bad, you"ll never be a champion.
 
hmmm298 said:
Either way as far as “wrong team”, as talented as he obviously is, who knows how he would have ended up elsewhere. Even @Revman has to admit he couldn’t do much better for a mentor then Jeff F’in Gordon taking him under his wing…,
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Damn it....I hate it when you are right. :) I thought the way Jeffy handled all of that with Willy B. was well done.
 
StandOnIt said:
The felon snatched Byron and his crew chief Rudy Fugle from the grasp of the preacher, plugged them in to the Hendrick way and the rest is history.
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bull****. Willy was in a Toyota truck because The Felon and Chevy didn't have a place for him. None of US thought Willy was a real Toyota guy.
 
Formerjackman said:
Except that back in the old days, you had all season to make up for a bad race or two. Now, if that bad race or two happens at the wrong moment, what you did the rest of the season makes no difference. If you can win the first 35 races, finish second in the 36th and lose the championship, there is something BADLY flawed about the system. I think the current system is going to give us a boatload of random one and two time champions, likely not four, five six or seven time champions. Being great no longer gets it done. Being great at EXACTLY the right time is what matters. Phoenix not your best track? Too bad, you"ll never be a champion.
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bull****. CBell and his two walk offs was epic. Ya know, the other side of the coin? NASCAR's championship format is the greatest change in this sport ever IMO. We have a playoff season....the championship race is epic.....Name one underserving champion. Being great at exactly the right time is what sport--any sport--is all about.
 
The Nature Boy said:
NASCAR fans are the only sports fanbase that devalues their own championship. There are a lot of drivers who lost a championship because of "1 bad race or a couple of mediocre races." That's not a product of the playoffs.
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I've detailed the many, many problems I have with the playoff format and why it dramatically cheapens the legitimacy of a championship.

The Chase was fine. I hated it too because I prefer a 36 race season, but the Chase was significantly better than what we've got now.

My biggest fundamental problem comes down to having a single winner-take-all race decide the championship.

All the waiver BS and the size of the playoff grid are two more issues I have. It should be harder to make the playoffs. But again, NASCAR WANTS someone to punch a playoff ticket with a fluke race at Daytona, Talladega, or Atlanta Superspeedway.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
My biggest fundamental problem comes down to having a single winner-take-all race decide the championship.
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This is a fair critique. I would do a final round of three races and let playoff points carry over as they do for other rounds.

The current playoff system is fine for rewarding full season performance. If you have to shoehorn a postseason format into auto racing, the current system (sans the winner take all finale) isn’t terrible.

The ability to accumulate playoff points helps ensure that teams that are consistent have a leg up over everyone else. If you win one race and suck otherwise or squeak in on points, you’re going to have a tough time because the dominant teams will have a virtually insurmountable playoff point advantage. If you dominate the regular season, you almost need a Harvick in 2020 style meltdown to avoid getting to the final four.

My biggest problem is the overemphasis on winning. A win shouldn’t guarantee you a spot in the playoffs and shouldn’t automatically advance you to the next round.

But the current format is internally consistent. It does reward consistency on the track. I have no issue with recognizing whoever wins it as a true Cup Series Champion.
 
Revman said:
bull****. CBell and his two walk offs was epic. Ya know, the other side of the coin? NASCAR's championship format is the greatest change in this sport ever IMO. We have a playoff season....the championship race is epic.....Name one underserving champion. Being great at exactly the right time is what sport--any sport--is all about.
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Except in auto racing, there are simply too many factors out of the competing driver and team's control to base a whole season on one or two small moments of that season. Racing championships since the beginning of the sport have been built on a body of work over a season, and I have never seen the slightest reason to change it just so a bunch of undeserving teams can get a chance to steal a title and so their fans with attention span of a goldfish will stay engaged because their driver has a mathematical chance of winning, whether they have done anything to justify it or not. It's the same reason MLB juices baseballs, the NFL hamstrings defenses, and the NBA allows 9000 clock stoppages and why the NBA, NFL and the NHL allow two thirds of the teams into the playoffs. They are all catering to the lowest common denominator, and it makes me sad. I've gone from someone totally obsessed with sports to ONLY watching auto racing, and I'm REAL CLOSE to chucking that too. It wouldn't take much to make me turn off the TV and go do something productive on Sunday afternoons.
 
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